Revan, the Exile & KOTOR 3 (if it is ever made)

[Trooper]

Look everyone. Hades used a big word twice in one post

 

"perogative". Classic.

[Judge Hades]

So?

[Trooper]

No reason. Just saying.

[Laozi]

Don't patronize me an tell me to "STFU", thank you. I am entitled to have my own opinion, and I would like to make up my own mind about TSL. <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yes but it would seem more like you've already made up your mind, and since you don't own the game it would seem alittle flawed.

 

I hate the excuses most people are giving for this game and I don't see how anyone can't put most of the blame on Obsidian. I know that they are developing Neverwinter Nights 2 and at least one of there *defenders* is obviously anticipating this release, but that has nothing to do with this game.

 

To answer the question I hope that the next game is set something like 100yrs. after this game and that there would be no reason to have either of these characters in the game, both are way to powerful esp. the Exile(whos fault was that again?) and seemingly have had there moments in the history of the star wars galaxy. This story line has unravelled very quickly (much like anything with the offical distinction of being of the EU) and needs to be "junked"

 

Hopefully if there is a Kotor three someone who is given the opportunity will use there time better, especially if they dn't have to spend any of there time developing an engine, wouldn't a year be enough for such a parasitic enterprise

[Ludozee]

Don't patronize me an tell me to "STFU", thank you. I am entitled to have my own opinion, and I would like to make up my own mind about TSL. <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes but it would seem more like you've already made up your mind, and since you don't own the game it would seem alittle flawed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I haven't made up my mind yet. I have high expectations, which maybe explains my enthousiasm. My expectations remain high, because IMO of all the people who criticised the only one had decent arguments and wasn't whiny", like OMG! Obsidian really sucks" and "This game is sooo bad because of the ending". The few positive comments were decent and had good arguments, and what those people stated as positive things, like dialogue and influence, really appeals to me.

[Bastilla_Skywalker]

I think it would be a very good story if Revan and the exile join force with some of their old party members etc :D

[Baneblade]

I think it would be a very good story if Revan and the exile join force with some of their old party members etc :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You've gotta be kidding me...

 

Look, Revan got to level 20, Exile gets to 25+ levels...

 

the only people who'd enjoy the game where you'll have two uberpowerful jedi/sith are munchkins !!!!

 

Both KotORs were too easy putting Revan and the Exile together is kinda overkill.

[Ludozee]

I think it would be a very good story if Revan and the exile join force with some of their old party members etc :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You've gotta be kidding me...

 

Look, Revan got to level 20, Exile gets to 25+ levels...

 

the only people who'd enjoy the game where you'll have two uberpowerful jedi/sith are munchkins !!!!

 

Both KotORs were too easy putting Revan and the Exile together is kinda overkill.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ahhhh, come on, don't be so realistic! Storywise I would love to see Revan make a comeback too. Can't say much about the Exile because of Int. PC, but it sounds pretty good to me.

[Laozi]

It can be done especially since they can't do some stupid mask trick with the exile

[Epiphany]

priceless.  we point out how you are clearly WRONG about mike gallo and who he works for, so instead of conceding that that part of your whining has no merit, you insist that 'he echos the feelings of Obsidian'.  thats just stupid and anyone who reads your posts should realize how little credibility your crying has.

 

you were wrong.  mike gallo is the producer for lucasarts for the sith lords.  lucasarts.  say it with me.  lucasarts.  if you want to continue to say the game sucks, by all means, do so.  but dont lie about proven facts in the process.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you didn't read it, figures. You're too much of an idiot to understand the whole concept anyway. On top of that, you have no arguement except the classic fall back of "U HAV NO CREDABILIAH EVERI1 KNOZ DAT!". My online feelings are hurt, I'll shed a few cyber tears for you once my online ego is done laughing at your attempt to display superiority.

 

No, I haven't made up my mind yet. I have high expectations, which maybe explains my enthousiasm. My expectations remain high, because IMO of all the people who criticised the only one had decent arguments and wasn't whiny", like OMG! Obsidian really sucks" and "This game is sooo bad because of the ending". The few positive comments were decent and had good arguments, and what those people stated as positive things, like dialogue and influence, really appeals to me.

 

Perhaps you just haven't taken the time to read the negative comments. Since you've already seemed to have made up your mind, you have probably turned a blind eye to everything negative, regardless of how constructive it was.

 

I'll echo things for you that I've already said, that I'm sure you've over looked before.

 

The influence system is shattered. You don't influence the characters around you, they influence you. You have to conform to their personalities in order to sway them to the light/dark side. Which means, you cannot do as the game portrays your character, which is influencing people by your mere presence. Once you have the influence required for them to have an alignment shift, they still remain the same, the only thing that changes is their portrait and avatar. So, influencing a good character to the full darkside, still leaves them whining whenever you commit an act of evil, no matter how insignificant it is. Same goes for dark to light characters, they whine when you do good deeds, no matter where their alignment is.

 

So what about this is even remotely appealing? The fact you get to watch a bar go from blue to red or red to blue? Because nothing else is gained by molding YOUR character around THEM, instead of them molding around you.

 

The dialog, while good, is limiting. They want you to influence people, but they give you no "lie" options, except once in a blue moon. So you can't lie to your party members, to make them think you care, if you're evil. Perhaps Sith Masters never lie...

 

The combat is below the quality of the first game which is saying a whole lot since KOTOR was on the easy side. With the flood of new weapons/skills you're presented with you are put up against foes that are not only weaker, but dumber than in the first game. You just run around, slicing everything in your path, which are 90% mercs/guards/beasts. The few force capable you do face in the game almost never use force powers against you, other than the occasional drain life.

Jedi Masters use their sabers almost exclusively. THEY ARE MASTERS FOR CHRISTS SAKE

That causes a core selection of force powers of your own to become useless, since you never have to worry about shielding yourself from force attacks.

 

The new workbench/lab station is almost useless. Making items seems an utter waste of time since there is nothing you can make that can't be found/bought. Sure, it may feel rewarding to put points into a skill just so you can make item X, but then you turn around and find item X in the next container you search.

 

Item randomization is this game is devistating. It's so random it's pathetic. It's not like Icewind Dale (if you played that game) where certain items are randomly generated in certain areas. Instead, you have dozens of items that are randomly placed in dozens of places. You'll never find a decent balance of equipment. Everything you have you usually end up buying, since it's much easier to save/reload infront of a merchant inorder to get them to have a half decent inventory. It's really moot though, since the combat is so easy, but still, it's annoying for those that would like to at least SEE some of the good stuff the game has to offer.

 

The last section of the game feels rushed and incomplete.

 

Speaking of incomplete... The thoughts of your character are utterly unexplored. He doesn't have anmesia, so there's always this annoying feeling that you, the player are being kept in the dark, while the character you're playing knows everything.

 

/sarcasm

It's such an immersive aspect of the game.

/end sarcasm

 

Certain skills/feats/abilities don't work, which is truely unique. In game cutscenes randomly crash, or fast foward. Sometimes, they don't display the written text, it's especially fun when an alien dialog is being spoken.

 

I could probably go on, but I've already said everything in other threads, and it goes un-noticed. People see it and run because it's long, semi-detailed, and the truth. So, it's much easier to repeat my distaste/disappointment in an easier manner which would be.

 

"They failed miserably on this one."

[drcloak]

K2 is mediocre in a nutshell, inferior to the first game.  For those of you who don't even own K2, yet insist to overwhelm this forum with your opinions, STFU.

 

If there is a K3, I will definitely not buy it, I don't care who the developer is.

 

- dr cloak

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is your perogative of not getting the next game as much as it is my perogative not getting the second. Unlike you I made sure that iKotOR 2 is a game I wanted before shelling out the cash which would be the intelligent thing to do. Don't blame me if you aren't smart enough to make an informed purchasing decision.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm not blaming you Hades, or anyone else for that matter. I'm just tired of seeing people who don't have the game, constantly inject opinions about the game as if they are an authority on it.

 

You, and others that don't have the game, may have informative things to say. But when it comes to things related directly to the gameplay, all your knowledge is based off 2nd hand information, which doesn't lend any authority on the subject matter.

 

You're right, I should have ignored the reviews, and the hype, and the Developers, and just attempted to formulate my opinion as best as I could before getting the game.

 

But until those of you who don't have the game, get it and beat it, STFU when it comes to your opinions on game play/mechanics.

 

- dr cloak

[Meshugger]

The ending of KotOR II makes it paramount for KotOR III to a direct continuation if its predecessor, not setting 100 years in the future.

 

Also, the only way to go around the problems in KotOR III with the high-level of Revan and the Exile would be that they sacrifice themselves in a great battle, or that you have to fight them in the end. Just writing them off is plain silly.

[Muad'Dib]

So Hades, would something like what was done for BG 2's protagonist work to bring back Revan and the Exile? Obviously crafted towards the SW style instead of what they used to explain why the character was once again level 1 after whatever level was held at the end of BG 1.

 

Dark Wanderer: I realize that it hasn't been established that KotOR is a trilogy, my suggestion was intended if that were the case. Obsidian's decision to leave the game without closure like that and what I've read in some interviews with Chris Avellone makes me think they intend to at least make KotOR 3 a true sequel to KotOR 2, should they make it. Should they also bring back Revan in a bigger role in the third game then the three games can be made into a trilogy. I'm hoping this will happen.

 

Also if the first three games were made into a trilogy that doesn't mean that there can't be any more KotOR games. There's still over 3500 years between this timeline and Ep1, I'm sure there's plenty of untouched space to continue quite a few new stories. And before this timeline there's plenty of space also, being as the Republic here is 25000 years old. I think KotOR 3 should at the least give closure to KotOR 2 and at the best bring full circle both previous games. Since these two games are constantly compared to the OT, KotOR (ANH) and TSL (ESB), the very least they can maintain continuity in their cast, after all you didn't see new protagonists taking over in ESB and then again in RotJ.

 

My two cents.

[Epiphany]

So Hades, would something like what was done for BG 2's protagonist work to bring back Revan and the Exile? Obviously crafted towards the SW style instead of what they used to explain why the character was once again level 1 after whatever level was held at the end of BG 1.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You don't start at level 1 in BG2. If you import your character from BG 1 to BG2, you start at whatever level you were when you finished the first game. If you create a new BG2 character, you start at lvl 7 (which is the average BG 1 completion level).

[Ludozee]

@ Epiphany:

Ok, you are the second person with negative comments who actually has decent arguments. . Now I know this is really easy, but I still have high expectations and want to see for myself what's it like because

1. I am a very positive person
   
2. I am a PC gamer, so I hope most of the bugs will be fixed
   
3. I am very much looking forward to the dialogue
   
4. I hope the game has the same gameplay as KotOR
   

Sorry, but I am going to play this game myself...

[Laozi]

The ending of KotOR II makes it paramount for KotOR III to a direct continuation if its predecessor, not setting 100 years in the future.

 

Also, the only way to go around the problems in KotOR III with the high-level of Revan and the Exile would be that they sacrifice themselves in a great battle, or that you have to fight them in the end. Just writing them off is plain silly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Wouldn't some sacrifice be the same as writing them off?

 

Atleast if they made it much later they could still have performed important acts that have direct influence on the current world, but not be "mysteriously missing"

 

If the ending was so important then why not make it better? "

[Epiphany]

@ Epiphany:

Ok, you are the second person with negative comments who actually has decent arguments. . Now I know this is really easy, but I still have high expectations and want to see for myself what's it like because

1. I am a very positive person
    
   
2. I am a PC gamer, so I hope most of the bugs will be fixed
    
   
3. I am very much looking forward to the dialogue
    
   
4. I hope the game has the same gameplay as KotOR
   

Sorry, but I am going to play this game myself...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've never once told someone not to play, or not to buy. It's the common ideal of someone that voices a dislike or, in my case, a severe dislike of a game. People just assume the person is telling people not to buy it, or not to play it, or that they're dumb if they like it.

 

Unless you're easily amused by games, then I feel, from your list that you'll be incredibly let down. The bugs will be fixed, but a lot of what's wrong with the game isn't bugs, it's THE GAME ITSELF. That links right into your last two points, which don't equal the quality of the first game.

[Meshugger]

The ending of KotOR II makes it paramount for KotOR III to a direct continuation if its predecessor, not setting 100 years in the future.

 

Also, the only way to go around the problems in KotOR III with the high-level of Revan and the Exile would be that they sacrifice themselves in a great battle, or that you have to fight them in the end. Just writing them off is plain silly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Wouldn't some sacrifice be the same as writing them off?

 

Atleast if they made it much later they could still have performed important acts that have direct influence on the current world, but not be "mysteriously missing"

 

If the ending was so important then why not make it better? "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was implying that they would have to die in the end-battle in one way or the other, or that you have to fight them. Having two characters in your party that are one of the most powerful Jedis/Sith in the Star Wars universe is overkill, even for KotOR.

[Epiphany]

I was implying that they would have to die in the end-battle in one way or the other, or that you have to fight them. Having two characters in your party that are one of the most powerful Jedis/Sith in the Star Wars universe is overkill, even for KotOR.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

One thing that was clawed from the depths of the ignorance in the story of this game was this:

 

Revan went off to fight the True Sith, which are supposedly FAR more powerful than the sith your character knows of.

That could easily balance it out with two lvl 20+ characters.

[Meshugger]

I was implying that they would have to die in the end-battle in one way or the other, or that you have to fight them. Having two characters in your party that are one of the most powerful Jedis/Sith in the Star Wars universe is overkill, even for KotOR.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

One thing that was clawed from the depths of the ignorance in the story of this game was this:

 

Revan went off to fight the True Sith, which are supposedly FAR more powerful than the sith your character knows of.

That could easily balance it out with two lvl 20+ characters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I wouldn't imagine

The True Sith

,as a whole, being uber-powerful. More like really cunning and manipulative, being able to challange the Republic without spilling a drop of blood. But this is highly speculative anyways...

[Epiphany]

I dunno. The game talks about the sith masters of old being incredibly advanced with light sabers. Making the current masters look like children or something of that nature.

It could easily be balanced if Bioware were to take it down that path.

[Meshugger]

I dunno.  The game talks about the sith masters of old being incredibly advanced with light sabers.  Making the current masters look like children or something of that nature.

  It could easily be balanced if Bioware were to take it down that path.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think that quote is from Kreia, explaining the Sith Lords of Korriban, but i don't exactly recall which of them. And making KotOR III, combining a good story and connecting all loose ties to each other and other variables AND leaving everyone satisfied will be a near impossible task for any developer IMO.

[OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN]

First off, let me get this out of my system.

 

F^%& Revan!

 

F#@$ the Exile!

 

I hate them and I hope they burn in hell.

 

Okay, is K2 built for importaing characters, because I'm sure K1 isn't, but hey, technology and it's applied states do advance.

 

But if they don't I suppose you could just build them again, which I see no problem with, because I like creating things. However, as Epiphany stated, the balance issues could be worked out because of the position the new threat we hope we will face is stated as being powerful.

 

But the creation of new force powers seems... well, I think some new creations might just get a little, how we say? Too similar. And these new powers and feats must feel fresh and new for this game, so that it doesn't match K1 or K2, it surpasses them while retaining the quality that made them great.

 

And I must concur that the combat was too easy, but you must consider that the story somewhat provided you with a reason to shrug it off.

 

Revan was a very powerful Sith Lord.

The Exile was

a wound in the force who gained strength through others

 

 

There should still be a challenge presented though. If you encountered problems with creating the images of the Exile and Revan, you could, as I said, become a new character and tie up the story through the new story. Because I mean, a sequel is really just the continuing story right? And KotOR did that without you having to be Revan. So couldn't KotOR III do that too?

 

But I see the points made. You could pretend like K2 didn't happen. It would anger SW geeks, but they don't do much damage. If K3 came out and it was totally unrelated to K1 and K2, I would still be interested, but I'm one of those people that like to fabricate the endings of certain things so...

 

I would like to see Super Duper Bitchin' Force Storm though...

[Muad'Dib]

You don't start at level 1 in BG2.  If you import your character from BG 1 to BG2, you start at whatever level you were when you finished the first game.  If you create a new BG2 character, you start at lvl 7 (which is the average BG 1 completion level).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks for the info Epiphany, I realize you don't start out in level 1 in BG 2, I meant that couldn't KotOR 3 use something similar to what was used in terms of storyline or whatever, except fitting SW, so that the same characters could start from level 1 or similarly lower levels. And I also know you could import the original BG 1 character, but I never played BG 1 so I didn't get to do that, likewise there isn't the ability to import the PCs from one KotOR to another, at least in these two games so I was basing myself on that for the third also.

 

Actually Old Skool Wheelman I don't consider KotOR 2 to have continued the story of the original at all. A sequel does involve the continuation of the story begun in the previous game, book, whatever; however it isn't just the story but usually most if not all of the main characters also continue to play those roles, usually with new additions. KotOR 2 used the events of KotOR to set up the backdrop of its own story, the results of Malak's war created the state the galaxy is in at the beginning of KotOR 2. But they are not a continuation of it since Malak's war ended in the first one. What KotOR 2 is to me is a spin-off, the events occur in the same timeline, there are cameos and a couple of returning original cast members but the main cast is almost all new and the story told itself is brand new. Take as an example any of the Star Trek series where 1 or 2 supporting characters leave one show then appear as mains in the new show, additional to this the new show can have a related story begun in the previous one but in of itself is a new story altogether. While KotOR 2 could get away with this because the original game had closure for its story and cast, the second one does not. KotOR 2 could have happened 500 years after the original with little effect on the actual story.

The way KotOR 2 ends though does not do this, it very much leads towards the theme of third game and having some new schmo take up the journey which the Exile departs to begin at game's wouldn't work in terms of storyline. Imagine Lando and Chewie leaving to save Han at the end of ESB then when RotJ opens neither Lando, Chewie, Luke or Leia are the protagonists and someone brand new rescues Han and destroys the Shield generator, duels Vader, etc. At least for me that wouldn't work.

Unfortunately, KotOR 2's end is the set up for the third game the same way ESB's end set up RotJ.

[NeverwinterKnight]

priceless.  we point out how you are clearly WRONG about mike gallo and who he works for, so instead of conceding that that part of your whining has no merit, you insist that 'he echos the feelings of Obsidian'.  thats just stupid and anyone who reads your posts should realize how little credibility your crying has.

 

you were wrong.  mike gallo is the producer for lucasarts for the sith lords.  lucasarts.  say it with me.  lucasarts.  if you want to continue to say the game sucks, by all means, do so.  but dont lie about proven facts in the process.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you didn't read it, figures. You're too much of an idiot to understand the whole concept anyway. On top of that, you have no arguement except the classic fall back of "U HAV NO CREDABILIAH EVERI1 KNOZ DAT!". My online feelings are hurt, I'll shed a few cyber tears for you once my online ego is done laughing at your attempt to display superiority.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

i didnt read what? you ignored the fact that you were wrong about associating mike gallo with working for obsidian. i stated that he does not. im not sure how thats me avoiding or not reading what you wrote. and i dont see how that is me having no argument when my entire argument is the fact that you blatantly LIE to try and prove some obscure point youre trying to make.

 

all ive ever commented on towards you is the fact that your statement that mike gallo's comments are those of obsidian since you seemed to think he works for obsidian. i pointed out that was a stupid and ignorant comment on your behalf since mike gallo is a producer at lucasarts, the same company youre saying should not be blamed for a rush job.

 

Perhaps you just haven't taken the time to read the negative comments.  Since you've already seemed to have made up your mind, you have probably turned a blind eye to everything negative, regardless of how constructive it was.

 

I'll echo things for you that I've already said, that I'm sure you've over looked before.

 

The influence system is shattered.  You don't influence the characters around you, they influence you.  You have to conform to their personalities in order to sway them to the light/dark side.  Which means, you cannot do as the game portrays your character, which is influencing people by your mere presence.  Once you have the influence required for them to have an alignment shift, they still remain the same, the only thing that changes is their portrait and avatar.  So, influencing a good character to the full darkside, still leaves them whining whenever you commit an act of evil, no matter how insignificant it is.  Same goes for dark to light characters, they whine when you do good deeds, no matter where their alignment is.

 

So what about this is even remotely appealing?  The fact you get to watch a bar go from blue to red or red to blue?  Because nothing else is gained by molding YOUR character around THEM, instead of them molding around you.

 

The dialog, while good, is limiting.  They want you to influence people, but they give you no "lie" options, except once in a blue moon.  So you can't lie to your party members, to make them think you care, if you're evil.  Perhaps Sith Masters never lie...

 

The combat is below the quality of the first game which is saying a whole lot since KOTOR was on the easy side.  With the flood of new weapons/skills you're presented with you are put up against foes that are not only weaker, but dumber than in the first game.  You just run around, slicing everything in your path, which are 90% mercs/guards/beasts.  The few force capable you do face in the game almost never use force powers against you, other than the occasional drain life. 

Jedi Masters use their sabers almost exclusively.  THEY ARE MASTERS FOR CHRISTS SAKE

  That causes a core selection of force powers of your own to become useless, since you never have to worry about shielding yourself from force attacks.

 

The new workbench/lab station is almost useless.  Making items seems an utter waste of time since there is nothing you can make that can't be found/bought.  Sure, it may feel rewarding to put points into a skill just so you can make item X, but then you turn around and find item X in the next container you search.

 

Item randomization is this game is devistating.  It's so random it's pathetic.  It's not like Icewind Dale (if you played that game) where certain items are randomly generated in certain areas.  Instead, you have dozens of items that are randomly placed in dozens of places.  You'll never find a decent balance of equipment.  Everything you have you usually end up buying, since it's much easier to save/reload infront of a merchant inorder to get them to have a half decent inventory.  It's really moot though, since the combat is so easy, but still, it's annoying for those that would like to at least SEE some of the good stuff the game has to offer.

 

The last section of the game feels rushed and incomplete.

 

Speaking of incomplete... The thoughts of your character are utterly unexplored.  He doesn't have anmesia, so there's always this annoying feeling that you, the player are being kept in the dark, while the character you're playing knows everything.

 

/sarcasm

It's such an immersive aspect of the game.

/end sarcasm

 

Certain skills/feats/abilities don't work, which is truely unique.  In game cutscenes randomly crash, or fast foward.  Sometimes, they don't display the written text, it's especially fun when an alien dialog is being spoken.

 

I could probably go on, but I've already said everything in other threads, and it goes un-noticed.  People see it and run because it's long, semi-detailed, and the truth.  So, it's much easier to repeat my distaste/disappointment in an easier manner which would be.

 

"They failed miserably on this one."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

btw, i do agree with much of what you wrote. perhaps we got off on the wrong foot, but my ONLY contention with anything youve said is the fact you used a quote by mike gallo, who is a lucasarts producer, as proof that it was obsidian's choice to rush the game out. apart from that, what you wrote i do agree with (although i still enjoyed my play through because i thought the story and characters were strong enough to overlook some of the shortcomings).