In Defense of Darth Nihilus

[Epiphany]

She told me she saw a graveyard.

[Victus]

She said a man.

[Bataar]

Notie how Visass does not tell the exile what she sees when she removes Nihilus' mask? Also the Exile's force points increase once he has the mask indicating that he is now complete.

 

Anyway, that's just my theory.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well she does tell you what she sees. She says it's just a man. Which can't be you if you are playing as a woman.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not really. The bottom line is that she doesn't want the exile to know who it is.

[Bataar]

Also note that Kriea had the bond with the exile from the beginning of the game. But everyone, including Kriea and the Jedi Masters stated that a bond that strong could only be formed between a master and pupil. Since the exile had never even met Kriea before, where did that bond come from? It was formed because he was the human side of Nihilus who was her pupil.

[Ostkant]

First of all, where the heck does it say that Nihilus was her pupil?

 

Second of all, I see many holes in your theory already. Sure you and Nihilus share the ability to drain people, you're responsible for his existance, but that's about it.

[Kalfear]

First of all, where the heck does it say that Nihilus was her pupil?

 

Second of all, I see many holes in your theory already. Sure you and Nihilus share the ability to drain people, you're responsible for his existance, but that's about it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When Kreia tells her story Nihlus and Sion are her apprentices who betray her, so that would suggest he was her pupil at one time

[steelfiredragon]

Darth Nihilus and the Exile are the same person. When the Exile seperated himself from the Force, that aspect of him became Nihilus. In the beginning of the game, the Exile is an empty man, hungering for the Force and Nihilus is empty, hungering for a trace of humanity, since he can't have it, he tries to satisfy his hunger with the Force.

 

Notie how Visass does not tell the exile what she sees when she removes Nihilus' mask? Also the Exile's force points increase once he has the mask indicating that he is now complete.

 

Anyway, that's just my theory.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thanks alot for ruining KoTOR III for us... j/k

anyway various interesting theory, maybe too interesting

[AromisTallion]

Darth Nihilus:

 

refers to Nihilism:

The Belief (Or Faith) In Nothing

 

Or In Psychological terms:

A delusion, experienced in some mental disorders, that the world or one's mind, body, or self does not exist

[Jedi Master D Murda]

Nihilus fell during Malachor V, Sion was a victim of the Koriban Sith in-fighting. Kreia was blamed for Revan's fall and cast out of the order.

 

Revan formed the Sith out of fallen Jedi and outer rim/ex-republic troops and the teachings he discovered. There weren't any Sith Lords sitting around before that time. Kreia's flashback took place between K1 and K2. It couldn't possibly have occurred before.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Correct. They were spawned due to the Mandalorian Wars and learned of the Sith teachings up to between K1 and 2 and betrayed Traya and began their quest to destroy the Jedi.

[EvilTyger]

Well, there's their mutual abilities, but it was more than that.

 

 

 

 

1. There was also the fact he couldn't do it to 'you'.

 

2. The rest is in Kreia's dialogue. Echoes in the force, Malachor, her descriptions of Nihilus and yourself, then the whole deal with the Council...

 

[Epiphany]

She said a man.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

She told me she saw a graveyard.

 

This can go on all day long.

[bodrock]

She said a man.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

She told me she saw a graveyard.

 

This can go on all day long.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

perhaps this has to do with her alignment? My Visas was full-on Pillar o' Light, and she said "a man".

[envida]

She said a man.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

She told me she saw a graveyard.

 

This can go on all day long.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

perhaps this has to do with her alignment? My Visas was full-on Pillar o' Light, and she said "a man".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have to check that on my ds playthrough...

[Victus]

She said a man.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

She told me she saw a graveyard.

 

This can go on all day long.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

perhaps this has to do with her alignment? My Visas was full-on Pillar o' Light, and she said "a man".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have to check that on my ds playthrough...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was full darkside. She said a man.

 

I'd rather have her saying he was a graveyard though... sounds better.

[Ostkant]

She told me that she saw a graveyard in space, or something like that. Well myself I'm so tired of discussing Nihilus so I'm just jumping out of this.

[Gamble H'arm]

Like many of you, I am disappointed in the way Nihilus turned out... on my original play-through, I was practically crapping my pants when I went to confront him on the bridge. I think it would have been a much better fight if Visas and Mandelore had been thrown across the bridge or incapacitated- the 3 on 1 situation made it far to easy. I think maybe that Visas should have had to struggle more to stay at your side, or (Dark Side) could have sacrificed herself for you. From a purely gameplay perspective the fight was too easy. Then again, most of the KOTOR II fights seemed too easy- it would have been nice if the gameplay difficulty had effected the HP and statistics of your foes. On 'Normal' there were practically no difficult battles, and on 'Difficult', most of the bosses were still fairly easy.

From a purely character standpoint, Nihilus was actually pretty cool. I would have liked it if the battle with him had lived up to his displays of power in the cutscenes and movie, and it would have been cool if when Visas had pealed back his mask, it would have revealed some shocking discovery, but I thought he was a well-concieved character.

[jaguars4ever]

and it would have been cool if when Visas had pealed back his mask, it would have revealed some shocking discovery

Like what? Bearing the face of the Exile?

[darth ploppy]

"Sion" is probably a reference to "scion," which means "descendant or heir."  In this case, he is defined by his desire to be the heir to his master's teachings and power.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A random note about Sion: The spelling S-i-o-n (to the nearest I can tell) orginates in Old English. You can then trace it back through Late Latin into Greek, and, finally, to Hebrew. It can be used as an alternate spelling of Zion. The only definition I found that did not refer to a Biblical place was: Noise, tumult. Which is interesting since tumult has the following definitions(among others): A disorderly commotion or disturbance, Agitation of the mind or emotions.

 

Is this what the Devs meant? Perhaps. I don't claim to know their mind, but this is my $0.02 on what they might have been trying to convey.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

you need to get out more

[Odabhsoj]

Lol, kinda like the Stormtroopers do you know the true history behind them lol...

They were Nazis!(Learned it in school lol)

[Darth Credulous]

Is Darth Nihilus ever Kreia's pupil? I see him and Sion challenging her in Trayus Academy in that FMV, but that doesn't necessarily mean he studied there - in fact, it makes sense that Trayus Academy is the first time we see Nihilus, as if he is a force 'echo' of the Exile, that's where he was born.

 

I thought Kreia's mention of the betrayal of her apprentices referred to Sion, and the others there, allying with Nihilus. Nihilus then remakes Trayus Academy in his own image, creating others who are capable of the same thing as he (though not to the same degree), and Sion leaves the place, believing himself free of his old master's influence.

 

In support of the 'Nihilus is the Exile's Shadow' theory, if we watch what Nihilus does to Kreia, he drains her of her powers. She isn't even strong enough to force-snatch her lightsaber from the ground. How would he do this? By forming a link - just as the Exile forms bonds unconsciously and feeds off others, Nihilus does so aggressively, creating a purely one-way link.

 

So it's possible that 'link' to Nihilus translates, in some indefinable way, to a link to the Exile as well - the deaths in Peragus station are, we assume, what awakens the Force in the Exile again, and as he regains his strength, Kreia feeds off him. You're led to believe the Exile is hearing the Force through Kreia, when in fact the opposite is true. Kreia needs the Exile, both as a source of power for herself, and as the tool to challenge Nihilus and allow her to retake Trayus Academy to follow Revan's agenda of preparing for the True Sith.

 

To follow another example, the same could be true for Visas Marr - she is able to sense the Exile thorugh her link to Nihilus. To use a metaphor - the Exile and Nihilus are two sides of the same coin, never able to turn and see one another, but Visas, who is linked to them yet has kept her force powers on Nihilus' whim, can see both sides, spinning in the air, once the Exile begins to regain his power.

 

The other thing I'll say is that the 'bad guy is one half of you' twist is just SO reminiscent of Planescape: Torment that I strongly believe it's true.

[TheEvilOctopus]

1. Nihilus is not Revan. It was completely plausible that that would turn out to be the case and of course one of a few endings that were anticipated. It could well have been the case that when we got to the Bridge he reveals this, but he doesn't, he just dies, and we don't hear any more of him for the rest of the game. If he was Revan then this would have been revealed... Of course... Because otherwise what was the point in it being so, and why have they not told us such an important thing as the fact that we just slayed the mighty Revan? Also, we're told exactly where Revan is at the end, and Kreia makes it very clear that he is still alive, fighting the Real Sith in his own way. The entire KOTOR I and II plot centres around Revan and the things he has done, and so for us to kill a minor character and then one day to find out, by the way, that he was Revan... you didn't get to talk to him, or find out what he's been doing, or what he found in Unknown Space, or answer ANY of the many questions which have been formed... would be apauling and is NOT what has happened. Nihilus DIED. If there is a III nobody will care enough about Nihilus for the late revelation that that was Revan to mean anything. Except that there is no story path for this third installment to follow. Believing him to be Revan before you play the game is fine, but believing it after you've completed the game is not very intelligent.

 

 

2. It is clearly stated that Nihilus is born out of the devestation at Malachor V... Therefore the cut-scene with Kreia, Sion and Nihilus has to be between the times of KOTOR I and KOTOR II (or during KOTOR 1).

 

3. Nihilus being the Exile... This is another theory which, like the Nihilus/Revan one, is entirely plausible for most of the game, and there ARE a lot of similarities between them. However, as is the case with Revan... IF THIS WERE TRUE WE WOULD BE TOLD. How could they possibly just not tell us something as important as this? Nihilus is a minor character who had 2 or 3 cut scenes, 2 or 3 lines, and will definitely not be returning in KOTOR III... So there is no possibility of it being revealed in III... Therefore, it is not the case.

 

Nihilus looks cool, and is on the box, but is nowhere near important enough to be Revan or the Exile.

[Darth Credulous]

However, as is the case with Revan... IF THIS WERE TRUE WE WOULD BE TOLD. How could they possibly just not tell us something as important as this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I, uh, don't know if you've noticed, but there are quite a few holes in this game as it is.

 

Check the 'Darth Nihilus Revealed' in the Spoiler section for some curious revelations that give a little more credence to this theory.