My review of KOTOR 2

[cewekeds]

I liked the ending it left me wanting more and got me thinking of KOTOR 3. KOTOR just ended and I thought the story was done. Except a few NPC plots like carth son or mission brother, At less KOTOR tells you what happen to your party. I also had very few bugs in the game. Swoop racing being the worse. I also think that KOTOR and KOTOR 2 are better then the new movies. I also like learning about the sith.

 

I wish you could have your party fear you. They did what you told them to do because you might kill them if they don't

 

Every RPG game I every play gives you alot of junk. Why so you can sell it and get something better. Here you can get a couple of 1000 parts by breaking down crap. Instead of finding few here and there.

[Ludozee]

The flaw is that the majority of gamers don't want to analyze and commit dialogs to memory.  Players think in the short-term and how things effect them in the short term.  This is proven across platforms, games and even genres.

 

It is fairly evident if you read any threads with spoilers someone will say "X is never explained."  I look back and I can think of at least 1-2 instances of X being explained, not only that, but how X is connected to Y, and how Y is connected to Z.

 

*Shrugs*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So what you mean is that a lot 14 year old SW freaklets don't get the deeper meaning of certain points made in the game

[Volourn]

"KotOR2's greatest failing isn't that it has a poor story. KotOR2's greatest failing is that it makes players think and understand the story, rather than watching it."

 

Whatever. Such arrogance in someone who actually likes IWD2 and POR2.

 

KOTOR2's story is great and so deep that the peoples don't udnerstand it. Yeah, whatever.

[Shadowstrider]

"KotOR2's greatest failing isn't that it has a poor story. KotOR2's greatest failing is that it makes players think and understand the story, rather than watching it."

 

Whatever. Such arrogance in someone who actually likes IWD2 and POR2.

 

Uhm... I don't like PoRII. Nor have I ever claimed to have liked it.

 

Go drag another thread into a troll slug fest. Thanks.

 

KOTOR2's story is great and so deep that the peoples don't udnerstand it. Yeah, whatever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Its pretty evident in the spoiler threads that people don't get it. Pay attention.

[Craigboy2]

@Shadowstrider

 

Well, we perfectly agree then!  :D

In terms of features the game is superior to it's predecessor, but not when it comes to delivering a coherent, well-rounded storyline.

 

Merry Christmas then buddy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was a basic SW story maye it was the most original or the best or the most complex but it was okay.

[Volourn]

"Go drag another thread into a troll slug fest. Thanks."

 

Someone who goesa round calling others who dislike a story he likes morons shouldn't be calling anyone else a troll.

 

Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

 

"Its pretty evident in the spoiler threads that people don't get it. Pay attention."

 

From what I've read; there are two sides to the various issues. Not just one. For someone who claims that you like KOTOR2 because its so deep; your musings reek of someone shallow.

 

"You disagree with me? You dumb." is exactly what you sound like.

 

 

Game over. For now.

[Craigboy2]

Ah, now I know what you mean . But what do you mean if you say that that is a flaw of KotOR 2? Like I said before: IMO that is a positive thing, because it creates a certain depht in the game you don't see every day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The flaw is that the majority of gamers don't want to analyze and commit dialogs to memory. Players think in the short-term and how things effect them in the short term. This is proven across platforms, games and even genres.

 

It is fairly evident if you read any threads with spoilers someone will say "X is never explained." I look back and I can think of at least 1-2 instances of X being explained, not only that, but how X is connected to Y, and how Y is connected to Z.

 

*Shrugs*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good old mindless mases who are obsessed with HALO 2

[AlanC9]

Going back a bit....

 

Did BG2 have better features and gameplay?  Sure, but they also took out most the things BG1 did right, like lawnmower exploration areas that were truely open-ended.  BG2 also started the trend of BioWare's antagonist-centric stories, which KotOR1 thankfully verged away from.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Assuming that "lawnmower exploration areas" are doing something right, of course. I was pleased that they were gone, since I always thought that was a dopey convention in CRPGs.

 

The point is, there's no right answer to that question. There's a majority answer, and a minority answer, true. But knowing that other people liked or disliked a feature doesn't tell me anything useful. What counts is why someone likes or dislikes it, which might tell me how I'll feel about it.

 

From what I've read so far, I think I'll like the KotOR 2 plot but hate the overemphasis on items and the unbalanced powers.

[Shadowstrider]

Going back a bit....

 

Did BG2 have better features and gameplay?  Sure, but they also took out most the things BG1 did right, like lawnmower exploration areas that were truely open-ended.  BG2 also started the trend of BioWare's antagonist-centric stories, which KotOR1 thankfully verged away from.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Assuming that "lawnmower exploration areas" are doing something right, of course. I was pleased that they were gone, since I always thought that was a dopey convention in CRPGs.

 

Obviously this was my opinion.

 

The point is, there's no right answer to that question. There's a majority answer, and a minority answer, true. But knowing that other people liked or disliked a feature doesn't tell me anything useful. What counts is why someone likes or dislikes it, which might tell me how I'll feel about it.

 

That was my point. We know that people didn't like the story of KotOR2. It has been expressed. I wasattempting to explain why people don't like the story, the dialogs are too complex for their own good, which lead to people skipping over or completely missing certain bits of information.

 

At least that is my understanding.

[AlanC9]

So we disagreed on BG1>Bg2. Not too important now.

 

On the main point, I'm going to agree with you, SS., or at least consider it a possiblility.

 

Why not believe KotOR 2 is too good for a lot of gamers? We've bleieved that about PS:T for a long time.

 

There's no evidence that the game is anything but a success in any event.

[Volourn]

"We've believed that about PS:T for a long time."

 

You might; but I sure don't. PST failed to succeed at a gretae rscale not because it's supposed (not) complex dialogues but a host of other factors - poor marketing was just one. Espicially if you realzie that *most* people who played PST *liked* it and those who don't aren't usually retarded.

[Judge Hades]

Also add in a weird blue scarred guy onthe box. I am sure that didn't help matters.

[Ludozee]

"We've believed that about PS:T for a long time."

 

You might; but I sure don't. PST failed to succeed at a gretae rscale not because it's supposed (not) complex dialogues but a host of other factors - poor marketing was just one. Espicially if you realzie that *most* people who played PST *liked* it and those who don't aren't usually retarded.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know, I actually bought that game, though I never played it back then...

edit: and still haven't

*covers his ears in anticipation of all the people who are going to shout "blasphemy!!!"*

[Judge Hades]

BLASPHEMY!

 

I hope that helps. :D

[bodrock]

even MORE BLASPHEMOUS (?!):

 

I never played PLANESCAPE: Torment, but after all I've heard about it, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it if it were released/re-done on Xbox.

 

same with GRIM FANDANGO!!

[mkreku]

Oohh, Grim Fandango is a real masterpiece..

[seabas]

I loved PST. Obsidian (at least, the people that make up Obsidian) did PST, right?

[Chemix]

Frankly, no offense, but alot of what I've seen of RPG communities is mindless bickering and whining, so my opinion of the average RPG lover isn't so high. I've read hundreds of threads, on dozens of boards & all in all, I've seen FPS hating/bashing, lots of unending bickering and lots of whiny complaints about little things. FPS communities aren't perfect by I think there is a tad more unity and a little less "I want my way!" fits going around. Note that I am not saying that all CRPG players are like this, just many seen on these boards and others.

 

Now again, no offense is intended

 

Onto the topic, I think KOTOR 1 is an overrated, overhyped, RPG. At first it was great, story depth: good/average, commen sense: a bit lacking but thats nothing new for star wars since the prequels. It had decent graphics and most detail was done for characters which were then overused. Bioware's lazyness begins to show after the first two quick play throughs. Everything seemed finished and done, but in that, it was done very poorly. Character animation for instance, was highly lacking, overuse of humanoid characters to save time created a human/humanoid dominated universe of unoriginal characters. Most enviornment elements were taken from the movies rather then research based on the vast amount of usable EU. For example the "Jedi cannot love rule" was based on the poorly used romance theme from the prequels which is a re-use of Romeo and Juliet. Such acts were not put in place till a few hundred years after the Exar Kun wars, which is supposedly the explanation for why the rule exists.

 

Carth was poorly portrayed as rather then a brave war hero with a case of paranoia over the death of his family, and was shown as an anoying cowardly pranoid delusion who didn't understand enough of what was going on to do he job half decently without having a nervous break down. Bastila was supposed to be the cold selfish bratty jedi princess (similar to Leia) that warmed up. What was created was a cold lifeless anoying character with poorly explained pride, the character does warm up but outside of small chats here and there is the same character that we started out with, two clashing presonalities due to poor dialog. Zaalbar, the wookie that just wouldn't talk about anything, it is explained why but it does not explain the malice shown earlier towards the PC, a cold hatred, even after a lifedebt was given, all these things happened, the silent furball remained cold to all things. T3-M4 the useless pile of junk that followed the PC everywhere, not much to be said about him, he whirrs, he beeps, he boops, and he opens one door.

 

The busy streets of taris were more like a walk through a park on a winter day. The music further complimented this. Infact throughout the game the music is slow going no matter where one is, unless it's a battle it's slow peaceful music reflecting a quiet time even though the galaxy is caught up in a massive war.

 

Difficulty and Gameplay, well theres not much to expect of gameplay from an RPG, u level up, u choose ur attack que and let it unfold before you. Not much could be improved in such a limited system in my opinion, but thats just my opinion.

 

I have yet to play KOTOR 2, but it sounds like a good mind bending game where everything isn't peiced together for you.

 

Note that all of the above is opinions and veiws, no offense is intended, like what you like, don't like what u don't like, I'm just saying what I wanted to say.

[EnderAndrew]

I don't understand how people say Revan was a better character. Revan had zero characterization.

 

What did you learn about Revan? What was his/her past? What did Revan care about? What were Revan's fears and aspirations?

 

Revan doesn't exist as a real character. Revan is an ideal you have in your head of how you played him/her. Revan is not the same for any large group of players, and that makes Revan near impossible for a game to portray again in the near future.

 

I haven't beat KOTOR:2 yet, but I'm real curious to find how why the Exile is an exile.

[AlanC9]

Bioware's lazyness begins to show after the first two quick play throughs. Everything seemed finished and done, but in that, it was done very poorly.

 

If the game seems great for two playthroughs, maybe Bio doesn't care if it doesn't hold up after that. They're not going to sell more games that way, so who cares?

 

Most enviornment elements were taken from the movies rather then research based on the vast amount of usable EU. For example the "Jedi cannot love rule" was based on the poorly used romance theme from the prequels which is a re-use of Romeo and Juliet. Such acts were not put in place till a few hundred years after the Exar Kun wars, which is supposedly the explanation for why the rule exists.

 

This isn't much of an argument unless you know and care about the EU. And since LucasArts routinely breaks EU continuity --- and has approved Kotor 1 both as a product and as part of the EU --- exactly who is this argument aimed at?

 

Carth was poorly portrayed as rather then a brave war hero with a case of paranoia over the death of his family, and was shown as an anoying cowardly pranoid delusion who didn't understand enough of what was going on to do he job half decently without having a nervous break down. Bastila was supposed to be the cold selfish bratty jedi princess (similar to Leia) that warmed up. What was created was a cold lifeless anoying character with poorly explained pride, the character does warm up but outside of small chats here and there is the same character that we started out with, two clashing presonalities due to poor dialog. Zaalbar, the wookie that just wouldn't talk about anything, it is explained why but it does not explain the malice shown earlier towards the PC, a cold hatred, even after a lifedebt was given, all these things happened, the silent furball remained cold to all things. T3-M4 the useless pile of junk that followed the PC everywhere, not much to be said about him, he whirrs, he beeps, he boops, and he opens one door.

 

No, Carth knew exactly what was going on. His paranoia, in the end, is fully justified, especially if you go DS. I don't understand what you're trying to say about Bastila. There's no evidence whatsoever that Zaalbar hates the PC, though he does have a rather reserved way of speaking.

 

You're right that Zaalbar and Teethree don't have much dialog with the PC. I'll bet that's because they were put off until later. You could skip those two when assigning voice acting since they don't need to be acted. Then crunch time came around and there wasn't time to finish them. Teethree has dialogs on Korriban, but nowhere else, which might indicate some designers dropped the ball.

[EnderAndrew]

I found Carth largely annoying in KOTOR:1 regardless of whether I played LS or DS. The overall storyarch of KOTOR was quite good, but there were very few well realized characters.

[Yunerz]

I want party members to talk to ME, not the other way around.  I want them to be talking my ear off every where I go, and respond to every decision I make.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wow i'm not the only one that actually liked party members coming up to talk to me.

[EnderAndrew]

Now new conversation threads are opened up via events in the game, and influence rather than leveling up. It was silly that Carth wouldn't talk to me unless I got an abitrary ammount of xp. Even if nothing new happened in the plot, but now because I hit 10,000 XP he has something new to say.

[Exar_Kun]

Now new conversation threads are opened up via events in the game, and influence rather than leveling up.  It was silly that Carth wouldn't talk to me unless I got an abitrary ammount of xp.  Even if nothing new happened in the plot, but now because I hit 10,000 XP he has something new to say.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I really like this approach. Now I have to go and play the game again to find out about everyone, oh the replay value :D .

[EnderAndrew]

Replaying KOTOR:1 was boring. I am envisioning some interesting replay value in KOTOR:2 because of the differences.