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Why's Forgotten Realms more popular than Greyhawk?


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#21
Langky

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I like high magic worlds, what's the point of there being magic if there's no advantage to using it instead of picking up a sword?

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From a role-playing point of view, itís not really realistic to have "high magic". Secondly, "picking up a sword" does not mean its "no magic", as swords can be magical as well.

From a gaming point of view, whatís the point for adventuring if you are loaded with magical items that allow you no challenge? May be Diablo would be a more enjoyable setting for you?

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I never quite get the anti-diablo aggression I get on these forums :lol: . Diablo and Diablo 2 are good at what they do and they dont claim to be anything other than what they are. Yet I always seem to find people using it as a negative reference. The setting intself may involve lots of BIG numbers and +60 swords of smiting but its not what I would call unbalanced, and the world its set in is far from cliched or crap :lol: .

#22
Langky

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TO be honest i think a d20 modern game would be cool. Honestly i love forgotten realms games, i really do, but even the last neverwinter got to the point of "been there done that" ya know. I really enjoyed fallout tactics (which prove me if i am wrong, had nothing to do with Wizards of the Coast).

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I think it might be cool as well. Either that or a completely new Medieval Fantasy world occasionally its good to flush out all the complicated lore and start again.

Fallout had an awesome setting! :lol:

#23
romeo_longsword

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To thouse who said that FR is just as magically common as GH (or the other way around), I think thats fair enough if your experienced the two different worlds that way, and may be you think I am "wrong" to think FR is higher world.

But impression is like feeling, you cant really be "wrong" by feeling how you feel. :p

I get the impression about GH is much lower in magic than FR, it is based on some readings, as well as some game experience over at NWConnection (a place where people arrange games to play together). I would say, many times there is a game based on GH, there will be a line in the description expressed that GH is a low magic world.

It does not directly comparing it self with FR most of the time, but other details supports it make me feel that GH is a lower magic world than FR.

For example, they would say, "A +1 weapon is very difficult to obtain in GH, please write a detailed and reasonable story on how you obtained your +1 weapon".

On the other hand, I think in the rule book that, you can actually buy +1 weapon from shops, but I am not sure about this, therefore I CAN be wrong in this one. ;)

#24
drow_101

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i do play the pnp version of both FR & GH and i find that FR is much more real to me i can relate to the various things that happen

although i can concede that there is much more FR matterial about than GH in general but in my local shop where i get my books in the two years i've been playing i'v only seen (& got) one FR book

Thirdly it's not just the content of the worlds that matter in the pnp versions it also relys upon you'r DM coz if he isn't any good then no world that he runs will be entertaining for anyone. :p

#25
Traceroute

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I think it depends more on your DM than anything else. The DM really controls if it is a high or low magic game.

I would say the only major exceptions would have been the old SpellJammer world or Eberron ... in both, the societies are really based on magic.

#26
Shadow Drifter

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From what it sounds like, and stated elsewhere in the topic. The Best analagy i can come up with is

Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk are like PC and Apple.
Both do more or less the same thing, but differently and with fanbases on both sides (and those in the middle)...

#27
Ellester

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Actually Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms are pretty darn similar in style. The FRís was not a radical departure from Greyhawk. The FRís are just more fleshed out so they are more interesting. More novels, more sourcebooks, etcÖ made the FRís into a more exciting world. The Salvatore books also were hugely influential on the FRís popularity. And recently (last 7 years) BG, IWD and the NWN games have further increased the popularity of the FRís. And lastly most of the big cities are more fleshed out in the FRís, hence the cities are more memorable in the FRís. Why play Greyhawk when all the stuff out there is for the FRís.

Greyhawk could have been just as exciting if it was as fleshed out as much as the FRís, but it wasnít. There are plenty of exciting characters in Greyhawk; Mordenkainen, Tenser, Bigby, Rary, Iuz, etcÖ Cool organizations like the Scarlet Brotherhood and the Circle of Eight. Heck Lloth and the Drow was a staple of Greyhawk (and the best idea gygax ever came up with) before the Forgotten Realms took them over. Anyway, Greyhawk is more boring because it was neglected.

Since, Iím old school I grew up in Greyhawk and loved it. I found no reason at all to try out the FRís, even though I bought the sourcebooks to check them out. It wasnít until BG1 that I decided that I liked the FRís, and at that point there was so much more info on the FRís, that it eventually made it into a more exciting world for me. But, really I still donít find much difference between the two except the number on novels, crpgís and sourcebooks the FRís have that make it better.

And I agree, magic is equal in Greyhawk and the FRís. Trace is right, its up to the DM. I think some people get ticked off that Elminster is a chosen of Mystera and uber powerful, but then again Greyhawk has a demi-god called Iuz running around attacking local territories. So, it evens out, imo.

#28
Nanyea the Wayward

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Greyhawk was really the first campaign world (primarily a carry over from Chainmail and the original group) and then TSR soon to be Wizards began with the Forgotten realms (A creation of the great sage himself, many of the details of its creation available in editorials in dragon) over intelectual rights issues and no new content was created for Greyhawk. This would put both worlds at approximately the same age. Along the same lines all the literature was done in the forgotten realms and Krynn (*sp). Wizards eventually made amends, I remember reading in Dragon somewhere that Gary was brought back on as a creative consultant (one of their editorials) and low and behold they started re-releasing old modules from Greyhawk and new ones in development as well as novels. The only shortchange Greyhawk really has is that theres very little substance to the world whereas the realms has entire histories that have been explored in games, novels, fansites, fanfiction, etc.

Both of these worlds adhere strictly to the precept of High Fantasy, part of what makes them so popular. As far as levels of magic, Tome of Magic in its appendix made several outstanding points about how prevalent certain levels of magic should be, and every shop keeper carrying a +7 broadsword of lifestealing is a bit... odd to say the least.

(this is how I recall it, and was done w/o any current fact checking)

#29
Ameorn

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Wasn't it Ed Greenwood who created both worlds? first Greyhawk and then FR? He obviously didn't think his first creation was perfect so he tried another. And i'm not implying that FR is perfect, it whas just a thought on how FR came to be...

Not sure about if Ed made Greyhawk though.

#30
hosagi

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Can you say, which is a "better" world in terms of its intellectual degree?

For example, I say FR is great as a pletform to be a computer game because its allow a lot of freedom and magic flying everywhere. Which, in a personal view, its actually a negative thing because I desire a "realistic" fantasy world.

I hope you could get my meaning here, would you say, GH is "better" by my sort of standard?

I know this is hard to say as you can spent hours saying why is that piece of art is better than others, but I hope sombody could guess where I am comming from and give me some ideas or introudction.

Ta.

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You really shouldnt judge FR by the computer games. In a 'proper' FR setting, there's very few magical items around, certanly not +5 swords in every 3rd barrel and drow hiding in every corner.

Or did you mean that in your view, it's negative because the world has magic? In that case, you're out of luck with mainstream D&D worlds, they're all magical worlds with deities and such.

Comparing FR to any number of other D&D worlds really comes down to personal preference, although I find it rather funny how for example, the greyhawk and dragonlance crowd tries to insult FR, saying how munckhinish it is, with 'overpowered characters and magical items', when in fact, most of the D&D settings is filled with the same munckhin elements. The setting is what you make of it.

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Although it is what we as the players make of it, in terms of how "good" the world is, but there must be some sort of truth in the impression that, FR is just too many powerful items and things come too easily.

Basically, I have this impression that GH is lower in magical items while FR is like , "free magic give away" style.

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I played GreyHawk its a fairly decent module I've also played Forgotten Realms even DM'd a few adventures(going on 10 years) and for you to come out and say that FR is a "free magic give away" just because you played a FRCRPG is just wrong, I dont know about other DM's but when i set up a campeign the actually probability of your character finding anything higher than a plain +2 longsword is REALLY high if your going to use the FRCRPG to base your opinions on please state that all your info is based as such but to generalize all of FR just because you found it easy to pickup a Dragon's Bane Sword in Icewind Dale is not a wise thing to do

#31
Diamond

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I find it hard to believe a city with 100,000 people wouldn't have anyone playing PnP. 

If your local bookstores don't carry them, check your local comic book and/or scifi/fantasy stores (the ones that carry anime, Star Wars, Star Trek, Dr. Who, Stargate, etc. paraphenallia), as most of them carry gaming supplies.  It's also the place where us PnP geeks tend to run into one another.  :geek:

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Trust me, there can be 100,000-people cities, that not only have no PnP players, but also not a single comic book and/or sci-fi/fantasy store :(

#32
Shadow Drifter

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lol we have a warhammer store (SIGH BIG TIME.... GRRRRR NERDS) LMAO and a comic store... no DnD tho except in book stores

about the warhammer thing, i just dont like it. LOL just me i suppose.

honestly though... i live an hour from brisbane, and even in brisbane your hard pressed to find DnD... as some one said before its not that popular here (that said Warhammer isnt either, i just guess some super nerd decided to open shop with very few customers LOL man i hate warhammer)

Oh people who like warhammer,,, nothing against ya personally i just hate it... never really got it i guess. if that makes sense.

ToEE was... interesting... so here is a question...

Is GREYHAWK owned by WIZARDS???? or did the company simply Licence the d20 system?

#33
Sargallath Abraxium

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...as posted previously, FR be more "popular" simply cuz that be what TSR & Wizards o' the Crapper has been pushin' fer the last umpteen years...I's was always partial ta the Dragonlance settin' meself, but wit' the Big Wheels o' Business behind the Forgotten Realms settin' fer the last 10+ years, other settin's git left out in the cold...more's the pity... :geek:


...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

#34
AlanC9

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Is GREYHAWK owned by WIZARDS???? or did the company simply Licence the d20 system?

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Yep, WotC own it. It's the original D&D setting.

#35
Dethangels Shadow

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Is GREYHAWK owned by WIZARDS???? or did the company simply Licence the d20 system?

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Yep, WotC own it. It's the original D&D setting.

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They also own FR, lock, stock and barrel. (Where did that term come from? Hmm... after pondering for a minute.. sounds like a description of a gun.) Anyways, Grewhawk was created by Gygax, Faerun was greated by Greenwood. Both have been significantly shaped by others... Cook, Wyatt, et. al.

#36
Shadow Drifter

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ah k

#37
bozhul

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One thing that Bioware, Black Isle, and Obsidian have not done is explore many of the other areas of the world. Faerun is just one continent one whole world. BG 1&2, ID 1&2, and NWN 1&2, only really occupy one sliver of land on the western coast, about 1/30 of the whole continent. If anyone has read the novels (like me) you would know there is ALOT of material that still has not been gone over. The Campaign Book for FR alone has about 150 pages on just the geography. Lands can differ from anything form Mediterranian, African, Exotic Jungles, Arabian, and even an entire country shaped after ancient Eygpt. Theres alot of untapped material I would like to see in video game form, the designers just need to go there.

#38
Dethangels Shadow

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One thing that Bioware, Black Isle, and Obsidian have not done is explore many of the other areas of the world. Faerun is just one continent one whole world. BG 1&2, ID 1&2, and NWN 1&2, only really occupy one sliver of land on the western coast, about 1/30 of the whole continent. If anyone has read the novels (like me) you would know there is ALOT of material that still has not been gone over. The Campaign Book for FR alone has about 150 pages on just the geography. Lands can differ from anything form Mediterranian, African, Exotic Jungles, Arabian, and even an entire country shaped after ancient Eygpt. Theres alot of untapped material I would like to see in video game form, the designers just need to go there.

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It's not that they stayed on the same continent, rather that they stayed in the same few regions... all on the left hand side of my map. Of course, SoU and HotU did explore a bit, but there are so many other areas. Dalelands, Cormyr, Silver Marches, Cormanthor, The High Forest, Moonshae Isles, and so on. And then there are the other continents..

#39
Baradhel

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One thing that Bioware, Black Isle, and Obsidian have not done is explore many of the other areas of the world. Faerun is just one continent one whole world. BG 1&2, ID 1&2, and NWN 1&2, only really occupy one sliver of land on the western coast, about 1/30 of the whole continent. If anyone has read the novels (like me) you would know there is ALOT of material that still has not been gone over. The Campaign Book for FR alone has about 150 pages on just the geography. Lands can differ from anything form Mediterranian, African, Exotic Jungles, Arabian, and even an entire country shaped after ancient Eygpt. Theres alot of untapped material I would like to see in video game form, the designers just need to go there.

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Its because most of the other regions were made just to squeeze a few more bucks out of the public by satisfying niche markets.

You do realise that 99.99 percent of the areas mentioned in Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting are in Faerun?

The less popular regions like Mulhorand (the Egypt one) only have about a paragraph of information, whereas areas like the Silver Marches have an entire book to themselves.

Areas outside of Faerun like Maztica, Kara-Tur, Zakhara etc. are really badly done, boring stereotyped copies of real life with no attention to detail. The FRCS just skims over all of those in one page. The vast majority of people set their campaigns in Faerun for this reason.

Its not a good idea for a game to get too generalised anyway, it just sacrifices detail.

#40
Dethangels Shadow

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I suspect we'll be be seeing more of those areas in future WotC releases. Note that the Unapproachable East (the area bordering Kara Tur) has been out for a while, and the Shining South just came out.




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