Mira and Grenades and Rockets

[Ludozee]

My definition of "cheating" is doing something to make the game easier or to get around something difficult or in your way.  This isn't cheating.  It's....altering....how you play the game.

 

And it's actually not a "mod".  It's an adapted toolset.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly what I mean: you're altering the game, you're not playing it the way it's meant to be played. I have to admit, on some occasions I had to "edit" a game, but that was morrowind, and the only reason was that the game was so buggy that I got stuck because a NPC just vanished.

But I never use cheats/mods just to take the easy way out, because for me it is part if the challenge of the game to figure out how to solve something.

[GhostofAnakin]

I was always interested in Mira as a character and this makes her sound even more cool. I can't wait to use her, I'm sure she will only travel with you if you are LS because of her "tender heart".

 

Thanks for the info Chris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

She's a bounty hunter. Wouldn't that be somewhat hypocritical of her to condemn you (the PC) for evil choices, when her entire background and lifestyle is based on bounty hunting?

[DSLuke]

To everyone its own way of doing/playing things.

[GhostofAnakin]

Exactly what I mean: you're altering the game, you're not playing it the way it's meant to be played. I have to admit, on some occasions I had to "edit" a game, but that was morrowind, and the only reason was that the game was so buggy that I got stuck because a NPC just vanished.

But I never use cheats/mods just to take the easy way out, because for me  it is part if the challenge of the game to figure out how to solve something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But then by your definition, Obsidian and anyone who plays their copy of TSL is "cheating" throughout the entire game, since they used the toolset from KOTOR1 to create this new experience.

[Jedi Master D Murda]

She's a bounty hunter.  Wouldn't that be somewhat hypocritical of her to condemn you (the PC) for evil choices, when her entire background and lifestyle is based on bounty hunting?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

She doesn't like to kill and if she does it's in self defense and even then she is still hesistant to do it. If she were to see you killing innocent people I feel she would leave the party.

[Judge Hades]

Nah, if she was a real bounty hunter she would try to collect on your head.

[Jedi Master D Murda]

Nah, if she was a real bounty hunter she would try to collect on your head.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

She'd be smart enough not to.

[Masamune]

And aside from her plunging neckline special ability

Best ability EVAR *ahem* Thanks for the info Chis, These post make my day. As you can see Mira is my fav character so far even with these haters around here.

 

You know who you are. :ph34r:

[Ludozee]

But then by your definition, Obsidian and anyone who plays their copy of TSL is "cheating" throughout the entire game, since they used the toolset from KOTOR1 to create this new experience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ok, perhaps I wasn't being complete: When I as a gamer , not a developer, play a game, I don't use cheats/mods. Obsidians main job is creating the game, not playing it and btw, they probably don't have to cheat to solve something, because they created the game in the first place, so they know how to solve things.

 

When you are stuck, it leads to frustration, wich leads to anger. When you start cheating and take the easy way out it leads inevitably (sp?) to the dark side. It is a test for the true LS gamer to see if he/she can solve his/her problem through peace and contemplation instead of give in to your anger and cheat

 

:ph34r:

[MASTER]

I'd kill if you if you were my target, but I rember hearing that she only kills in self-dfence and when she did that she had an amotile break down. Know if that is true and she starts crying every time I kill something they better let us kill our party members are she aint ever comeing out of the ship.

[GhostofAnakin]

Ok, perhaps I wasn't being complete: When I as a gamer , not a developer, play a game, I don't use cheats/mods. Obsidians main job is creating the game, not playing it and btw, they probably don't have to cheat to solve something, because they created the game in the first place, so they know how to solve things.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I know what you meant. That's why I made the Obsidian example. The toolset is, essentially, for the "developer" side of you, not the "gamer" side. When I used the toolset to change my party into non-Jedi, it wasn't to "cheat" or to make it easier. It was to play the game in a different way.

 

Using the toolset for that purpose is no different than all those user-created modules for NWN out there.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Ive said it once and Ill say it again, I always cheat and modify things. It makes the games more enjoyable for me so I can see no reason not to.

[Laozi]

I've used mods a couple of times to breath new life into a game, I mean you spend $50 might as well make it worth it

 

Also Mira sound like a better character, she sort of got lost in the fold with all the new info on characters, planets, etc

[MASTER]

i use modds that give you more playing time.

[Drakron]

Mods are not usually done for cheating, my own KotOR mod was just switch the models used by the scoundrels and scouts.

 

Hardly a "gameplay altering" effect ...

 

 

As for Mira ... well I know the d20 enough to realize this kind of things are "out of window" but then again epic levels in Star Wars are even more out the windown.

 

Actually I do consider such skills displayed by Mira as "cheating", what remains to be seen if the player generated character is just "adverage joe" around the gifted (meaning, no special skill of his own and sorry being "created by the player" is not special skill) with is something I disliked on SW:KotOR.

[Meshugger]

Well one can see it as cheating since no character should have special features that no one else can, but these rules seems to serve more as a guideline than as strict rules. The removal of the levelcap already proved this.

[jaguars4ever]

Let's not knock the Hades One people! After all there's nothing wrong in wanting a game to be even better, especially as KotOR was one of our favorite games. If more people like Hades offered constructive criticism which the devs actually implemented, the quality of the franchise will ony get better and better. :cool:

[Judge Hades]

Thank you Jagster, your sentiments are appreciated.

[Master Jedi]

next thing hades will ask why do you have to play as james bond in goldeneye and the other bond games or why we have to be a thief in Thief Dark Shadows and so on. The key reason we have to play as a Jedi is because that is what the story is based on, and considering there are going to be more different ways to be a Jedi then there is still variety. Every game with a character-driven story has to have limitations to who the character is, otherwise it is impossible to write a story that envelopes a character that could be anything from scout to jedi to wookie to Rancor, that game would doubtlessly get me less involved with the character as the story will be unable to develop the character.

[Laozi]

How come they always use vampires in Dracula movies? Huh?

[Stargate: 2000]

next thing hades will ask why do you have to play as james bond in goldeneye and the other bond games or why we have to be a thief in Thief Dark Shadows and so on.  The key reason we have to play as a Jedi is because that is what the story is based on, and considering there are going to be more different ways to be a Jedi then there is still variety.  Every game with a character-driven story has to have limitations to who the character is, otherwise it is impossible to write a story that envelopes a character that could be anything from scout to jedi to wookie to Rancor, that game would doubtlessly get me less involved with the character as the story will be unable to develop the character.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really hate to side with Hades on this one but I feel I must (nothing against Yah hades its just I don't agree with alot of what you talk about), There are ways they could create games within the starwars license that didn't solely revole around the Jedi. Look at Galaxies for one, as far as I know you can't become a jedi in it but it looks to be a good game none the less (I haven't played it since I am saving money for TSL and don't have Live). I just don't understand why they don't take more advantage of the other classes in the Starwars universe, it would be interesting if they made a game were one could become one of say five (just picked a number off of the top of my head) different classes without being forced (forgive the pun) to play a jedi. I am not exactly sure how they would go about it sicne I am not a developer but I am certian that it could be done to the same calibur as (or maybe even better than) KOTOR.

[GhostofAnakin]

I just don't understand why they don't take more advantage of the other classes in the Starwars universe, it would be interesting if they made a game were one could become one of say five (just picked a number off of the top of my head) different classes without being forced (forgive the pun) to play a jedi. I am not exactly sure how they would go about it sicne I am not a developer but I am certian that it could be done to the same calibur as (or maybe even better than) KOTOR.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think it'd have to be set after RotJ. In the KOTOR days, and leading up to Episode III, the Jedi were still running rampant, and especially in the KOTOR days, it seems there were many dark Jedi and Sith. So it might be difficult to make a game set during that period without having the protaganist be a Jedi (hence why I believe that the KOTOR series MUST have the PC as a Jedi for the storyline to make sense).

 

However, there are less Jedi after RotJ. If you follow the EU, even after Luke starts establishing a new Jedi Order, their numbers rank no more than 100 total. That number drops significantly after the Yuuzhan Vong war, meaning there's only probably between 40 and 50 left in the entire galaxy. Which, in turn, means that a story set in this time period with a non-Jedi protagonist would be much more feasible.

 

Personally, I hope they (Lucasarts) allow a developer to make a game where it doesn't revolve around being a Jedi or playing as a Jedi. But I just don't want it to be part of the actual KOTOR series. I realize that might just be semantics, but I'd personally rather they kept the "KOTOR series" as it is, but make a different series (new name, etc.) based on a non-Jedi protagonist throughout the series.

[Stargate: 2000]

I think it'd have to be set after RotJ.  In the KOTOR days, and leading up to Episode III, the Jedi were still running rampant, and especially in the KOTOR days, it seems there were many dark Jedi and Sith.  So it might be difficult to make a game set during that period without having the protaganist be a Jedi (hence why I believe that the KOTOR series MUST have the PC as a Jedi for the storyline to make sense). 

 

However, there are less Jedi after RotJ.  If you follow the EU, even after Luke starts establishing a new Jedi Order, their numbers rank no more than 100 total.  That number drops significantly after the Yuuzhan Vong war, meaning there's only probably between 40 and 50 left in the entire galaxy.  Which, in turn, means that a story set in this time period with a non-Jedi protagonist would be much more feasible.

 

Personally, I hope they (Lucasarts) allow a developer to make a game where it doesn't revolve around being a Jedi or playing as a Jedi.  But I just don't want it to be part of the actual KOTOR series.  I realize that might just be semantics, but I'd personally rather they kept the "KOTOR series" as it is, but make a different series (new name, etc.) based on a non-Jedi protagonist throughout the series.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to agree, I think the KOTOR series should stay the way it is for as long as it run for whether it is 3 games or 33 games. I wonder if they will make a KOTNR game because as you said it would be the perfect time frame for there to be a possibility of a non-jedi PC (mind you I think there should also be the option to play as a jedi should those of use want to).

[GhostofAnakin]

I have to agree, I think the KOTOR series should stay the way it is for as long as it run for whether it is 3 games or 33 games. I wonder if they will make a KOTNR game because as you said it would be the perfect time frame for there to be a possibility of a non-jedi PC (mind you I think there should also be the option to play as a jedi should those of use want to).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

On one hand, I'd kind of like the option to be a Jedi NOT be included, for the simple reason that adding that option would most likely mean the story would have to be "altered" to reflect the possibility the player chose to be a Jedi.

 

On the other hand, I can see that it might get complaints from the masses if there weren't an option to be a Jedi. In that case, I'd want it implemented much like in KOTOR1 where you start as a regular class, but at a time in the story you are brought for Jedi training. Instead, this time you have the option of saying "screw it, I don't want to be a Jedi" and take off in your ship.

[Stargate: 2000]

I have to agree, I think the KOTOR series should stay the way it is for as long as it run for whether it is 3 games or 33 games. I wonder if they will make a KOTNR game because as you said it would be the perfect time frame for there to be a possibility of a non-jedi PC (mind you I think there should also be the option to play as a jedi should those of use want to).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

On one hand, I'd kind of like the option to be a Jedi NOT be included, for the simple reason that adding that option would most likely mean the story would have to be "altered" to reflect the possibility the player chose to be a Jedi.

 

On the other hand, I can see that it might get complaints from the masses if there weren't an option to be a Jedi. In that case, I'd want it implemented much like in KOTOR1 where you start as a regular class, but at a time in the story you are brought for Jedi training. Instead, this time you have the option of saying "screw it, I don't want to be a Jedi" and take off in your ship.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My guess is that if they were to include the option they would have to have almost two complete stories, one for the jedi and the other for those who choose not to be jedi's. Because they would have to have different types of enemies for the non-jedi to fight (because a non-jedi against a sith lord would be kinda hard to belive, not impossible but hard to belive non the less). Plus it would also be fun to tell the council to shove it should you choose to not become a jedi :D .