Judge Hades Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Still, I think it is highly implausible for technology to barely make a inch forward in 4000 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinIchiro Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Yah. In some areas it's fine (medicine). In others my point works, but only for 400-1000 years. 4000 years is a little too long for so little change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Hell, just take a look what we have done in 50 and compare SW and see what they have done in 4000. Man, talk about a stagnant society. The republic deserves to fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Quasar Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Still, I think it is highly implausible for technology to barely make a inch forward in 4000 years. Only because you're not living in "a galaxy far, far away." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Location is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Let's go back 50,000 year in history, and see how much technology changed in 4,000 years. It's all relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Quasar Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Obviously Hades cannot grasp the technological progress of civilization beyond modern day progress...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Of course I can, but its not going to be as stagnant as it appears in Star Wars. It is a part of the human instinct to develop new tech and use that new tech in new and innovative ways. We already have primitive cybernetics, optical computer systems and communications, and we have continually found new ways to wipe out the human species. Technology advances and since the good chunk of the Star Wars universe is human, that instinct has been poorly represented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 I think distance and location does play a huge factor. Let's say you find Endor, and you have to build bases from scratch, and establish a military garrison on the moon. You may have to build a power plant, a refinery, etc. before you can do anything else. After all, there wasn't any technology there. Since you're constantly bringing other planets up to a galactic standard of technology, it may be hard to spend money on research, only to come up with a new technology that has to be integrated on countless planets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastaGAW Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Hades you take this Star Wars s**t too seriously. You need to go outside or find another hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nik_bg Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Two notes can be made about SW technology: 1. Obviously law of nature are slightly different in SW and some of our technology is not known to SW - e.g. AK-47 assault rifle and bullets in general are much more usefull than the best SW blasters. Also, SW don't have chemical explosives - I think US C3 explosive wil do much more damage than plasma grenade with the same weight. Also some nuke will do betteer than plasma torpedos etc. May be the Universe is not homogenеоus and isothropic. 2. We know that our civilazion developes exponentially in time. But there is no guarantee that at any point saturation appears and further development is much more slowly 3. The most important - SW is fiction B) Nik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Product of the Cosmos Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Well, if you look at some things, they do advance within that time. Capital ships definitely get larger within that time frame (compare the Republic or Sith ships to Star Destroyers or Mon Calamari cruisers). Maybe, though, technology has simply reached a point where any further advance is extremely difficult until further breakthroughs are made in the area of manufacturing or the like. I think there were tech changes to make it more like 4000 years B4. But its hard to equate since we've only had like a few thousand years of history. If we'd had like 20,000 years of history 4,000 may not be that much. We know so little right now, thats why we discover so many new things. When we get to know a lot more I think the advance of tech won't go as fast as it does for us. So IMO there is no paradox in the story/tech of KotOr to the SW movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idunnowhattochoose Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 I would have expected the galaxy 4000 years before the Empire being much more lo-tech, i.e., hyperspace just invented and still slow, no blasters, no giant fleets, only a few species, stuff like that Ok I know you posted this a while ago but I really want you to know that hyperspace travel was invented 25000 years before the movies, 21000 years before KOTOR. Why only a few species????? It's not very logic, there were more species present than in the time of the empire, alot were exterminated. No blasters???? That would be uber-lame and pathetic blasters are just lesss powerful. Why no giant fleets? Once you have a shipyard you can keep building I think?? The romans had huge fleets 2000 years ago, so had the greeks 3000 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indalecio Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Also, SW don't have chemical explosives Just because we don't see any in the movies, don't you think its a bit of a stretch to say there aren't any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 3. The most important - SW is fiction B) In fiction there must be a suspension of disbelief that must be maintain for it to be an effective work of fiction. That suspension can only be maintained through consistancy and plausibility within the story structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellington Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Well, maybe since the Republic, Sith, AND Jedi fell from their superpower positions the galaxy was plunged into our equivalent of a "Dark Age", where technological progress was stunted. If our own history proves anything it's that in the absence of a superpower, technological and social progress slows down, halts, or even degrades. Another possible explanation is this: ever read Nineteen Eighty-Four? It seems that the Republic is in a constant state of war (Exar Kun, Mandalorian, Sith, and lord knows what in the next 4,000 years), so when expending all resources to the totally destructive and pointless state of war, actual technological progress doesn't really exist. In any event, it IS just a game, and this arguement seems rather ridiculous, though debating such matters can be fun. The most likely explanation is to keep the familiarity of the Star Wars world, but in that case, I don't see why it was necessary to use such a ridiculous time difference as 4,000 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitemithrandir Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Vis: I have NO problems visualizing the Star Wars universe. WHY? BECAUSE IT'S FANTASY! IT'S NOT SUPPOSE TO ROLL TOGETHER seamlessly like history. You want perfect plausibility? Grab a history book and go NUTS. So you can suspend your disbelief at people going around whoosing things with their mind but not a minor inconsistency that may or may not be totally irrational? I find that disturbing. Word economics To express my vast wisdom I speak in haiku's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 I want perfect plausibility (or as near as possible) within the framework of the setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anari_quun Posted July 12, 2004 Author Share Posted July 12, 2004 Vis: I have NO problems visualizing the Star Wars universe. WHY? BECAUSE IT'S FANTASY! IT'S NOT SUPPOSE TO ROLL TOGETHER seamlessly like history. You want perfect plausibility? Grab a history book and go NUTS. So you can suspend your disbelief at people going around whoosing things with their mind but not a minor inconsistency that may or may not be totally irrational? I find that disturbing. With a username of "Whitemithrandir" you should know from reading Tolkien that the more cohesive and rational the story is, despite mystical elements, the more believable it is. Some people are debating the point from the perspective that, since something like "the Force" is cleary fantastic and exists in the Star Wars universe, that the rest of the universe in which it exists does not have to follow any limits of reason of logic (such as the inevitable acceleration of the development of technology over vast amounts of time). If this were true, there would be no point to making the story, for drama would be that much more strained to accept in such a universe where there are giant holes in the logic, where anything can happen and should be believable just because the author wrote it. There is a distinction between the elements of stories that are impossible only in our universe (but possible in other ones), and logically impossible elements which do not make sense in any universe. Thus, "the Force", which is something that could be logically possible, is not the same as the logical and presumably inevitable acceleration of technological progress which would occur IF the Republic had not been significantly altered by my aforementioned calaclysmic event, the lack of such progress being most likely impossible. Such an advance in technology is easily rationalized simply by the advance of communications and mass media, things that were not present thousands of years ago on Earth, but are logically present in the Star Wars universe because of the state of parallel technologies such as FTL interplanetary travel, energy weaponry, and artificial intelligence. So any parallel arguments made comparing Earth's pre-technological history and the Star Wars universe's ongoing technological history are not valid. Yes, I do understand it is fantasy and no, it doesn't really affect my enjoyment of the game, but I do question the logic of placing the timeframe 4000 years prior to the Star Wars movies and not simply 1000 or even 500 years, which would be much more easy to stomach. The 1984 hegemonic power argument is one that interests me, but is not plausible given the vastness of space and resources that would be needed to enforce such a structure. In terms of progress, one would expect that in 4000 years technology would progress so far that it would not be comprehensible to those of the proir generations. Not to say that it would blow their minds or anything stupid like that, but I think the landscape would be completely different. Like, in 4000 years, I think it would be safe to say that droids would be useless, their functions being genetically engineered directly into people when they're born; space flight would be meaningless as people could probably have personal hyperspace motivators built into themselves. People would be genetically engineered to be able to survive in space, etc. See where I'm going with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Quasar Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Also, SW don't have chemical explosives *ahem* What do you think the "Poison Grenades" in KOTOR were? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indalecio Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Like, in 4000 years, I think it would be safe to say that droids would be useless, their functions being genetically engineered directly into people when they're born; space flight would be meaningless as people could probably have personal hyperspace motivators built into themselves. People would be genetically engineered to be able to survive in space, etc. See where I'm going with this? I disagree. There are already cyborgs in the Star Wars universe. If they were so great, why doesn't everyone have one. Prejudicial issues? Cultural issues? Personality issues? There's no great research into this, because there's no great demand for it. Why alter yourself, and risk possibly altering your very being, when there are far more safer alternatives. I think what has happened in the Star Wars universe is that it has reached a technological plateau. Further technological process is possible, but why spend money on reaserch, when you sell products made from slightly modified, but freely availible designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Product of the Cosmos Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 LOL i think if they have 'hyperspace travel' they would have realized chemical compounds into combustive substances... And ya SW is fiction to most of us at this time. But from my point of view time is endless, so everything has happened a countless amount of times. SW could be seen as a channeling of events a long time ago, and a long time from now... I don't say its fiction for sure tho.. Just not in our reality at this time. But the key to stories as in-depth as SW IMO is immersion. And even if its not 'real', it adding up to its own reality is important IMO for immersion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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