US Presidential Elections - 2024 edition

[BruceVC]

11 hours ago, ShadySands said:

So independent voters I get, I'm technically independent though I haven't voted for a Republican since Trump hit the scene. That said, undecided voters, I do not get. Trump has been a known quantity since forever and he hasn't changed and is probably not capable of it. 

I don't care much for Harris, in fact, l do not like her at all, but it's not even a choice between the two.

....

Regarding Israel, didn't they kill their last leader that tried for a real peace? I finally get why my Jewish step-grandfather (is that a thing?) hated Israel. I won't mention the things he said because I don't want Mossad to assassinate me. It probably wouldn't even make the front page of the news if they took my whole flight down to get me. Not that I'm hard to kill, you could probably lure me into an unmarked van with a Slim Jim and Dr pepper.

The reality of the important undecided voters is unique around its influence in the USA and how they can swing elections, I say unique because of the size. They make up anything from 10-15% of registered voters and they literally make up there mind within the last few days before the election. Thats one of the main reasons why USA midterm and presidential polls have often been wrong because polling data almost never includes this group, how could it if they dont know who they going to vote for?

And then you ask " why do they even exist? How can anyone be undecided between Trump or Harris " 

But thats easy to answer, they not influenced and they dont follow  the  SM drama, media  and hyperbole around politics. They vote on outcomes and its easy to identify 3-4 key realities\perceptions that are ostensibly worse in the US and have not improved under the Dems and Biden. And these could be 

• crime 
• border and illegal migration
• economy and inflation 

Harris was part of the same government that contributed towards these things as VP so there is legitimate GOP argument to say " if you want to see change in the US how can you vote for the same person that has failed to address these problems over the last few years " 

But then Trump was also part of the same government 4 years ago so its a similar criticism 

So in summary, they going to vote on policies and problems that resonate with them and which candidate they believe is better to address those things. They not influenced by  subjective views similar to " OMG, you cant vote for Trump because he is racist" 

Which is why these presidential debates matter to them, its interesting because I was watching an interview with a group of undecided voters on CNN  after this debate and several of them are still saying " we not sure who we going to vote for. We not convinced by either candidate yet " 

 

 

 

 

 

[ShadySands]

My dearest Bruce,

I hope this post finds you well.

Crime is down.

Republicans killed a comprehensive border bill because Trump wanted to campaign on the issue and, unfortunately, it looks like it's working on you.

Trump has been a public figure longer than I've been alive. 

Social media is more likely to give you misinformation.

People are stupid.

The end

Best regards,

Edited September 12 by ShadySands
I am people and therefore stupid too

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, ShadySands said:

My dearest Bruce,

I hope this post finds you well.

Crime is down.

Republicans killed a comprehensive border bill because Trump wanted to campaign on the issue and, unfortunately, it looks like it's working on you.

Trump has been a public figure longer than I've been alive. 

Social media is more likely to give you misinformation.

People are stupid.

The end

Best regards,

Sure but perceptions are reality and sometimes  perceptions dont align with the reality 

So if you take the perceptions of the US economy  and this particular voting issue  most Americans think Trump can do  better job at handling the economy than Biden. This poll is few months old and might have changed now that Biden is gone but its one reason why people would vote for Trump. Harris might not changes these views 

https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/50051-trump-biden-americans-perceptions-who-would-better-handle-biggest-problems-inflation-corruption-poll

"A new survey finds that the problem that Americans are most likely to consider a very serious problem in 2024 is inflation — and they’re more likely to approve of Donald Trump’s handling of the issue than Joe Biden’s handling of it. Other problems that a majority of Americans consider very serious, including corruption and drug abuse, also are ones that they feel Trump has done a better job handling than Biden. The poll was conducted after Donald Trump's conviction on 34 felony charges, and before the first presidential debate."

And I agree about the GOP destroying the border deal because Trump wanted to make this a political issue so I dont consider Trump serious about dealing with the border either but the argument to this is " the Dems had years to take the border seriously and only in the last 12 months did they act ". Its not a convincing justification to torpedoing the border deal because this should have been a bipartisan objective 

But let me ask you a  question, you said you would never vote for Trump. Can you share 2-3 reasons why you would never vote for him

I realize these are legitimate considerations  for you but I am interested in what they are 

And  I ask this because it  goes back to your original question, undecided voters are undecided for different reasons to you but it doesnt make them stupid 

 

[ShadySands]

Okay 

[Malcador]

8 hours ago, ShadySands said:

People are stupid.

Therein lies the answer to the question at hand.

[rjshae]

All this fuss about Taylor Swift's endorsement of Harris reminds me of Oprah Winfrey's support for Obama back in 2008. A pair of economists estimated it added a million votes for Obama. In this case, does it make any difference? Perhaps it brings out more of the youth vote? That group has historically had a low turnout.

[BruceVC]

6 hours ago, rjshae said:

All this fuss about Taylor Swift's endorsement of Harris reminds me of Oprah Winfrey's support for Obama back in 2008. A pair of economists estimated it added a million votes for Obama. In this case, does it make any difference? Perhaps it brings out more of the youth vote? That group has historically had a low turnout.

Its common in most Democracies to find celebrities   endorsing a   candidate or  a celebrity saying who they will vote for

In South Africa its common to find artists saying who they like, I dont have an issue with that because  I see it as  freedom of speech 

But I find it very strange that anyone should  be influenced to vote for any candidate because  a  celebrity is voting for them

This is an example  of the unhealthy celebrity worship culture

You should  vote for a  candidate because  of what you believe around policies,  not what someone else  believes 

 

[Hurlshort]

8 hours ago, rjshae said:

All this fuss about Taylor Swift's endorsement of Harris reminds me of Oprah Winfrey's support for Obama back in 2008. A pair of economists estimated it added a million votes for Obama. In this case, does it make any difference? Perhaps it brings out more of the youth vote? That group has historically had a low turnout.

As you said, low turnout is an issue and this will likely get out some younger voters. They aren't necessarily being swayed to vote for Kamala over Trump. I doubt there are many Swifties that are die hard Trumpsters as well. 

[Zoraptor]

True Swifties won't vote.

They'll just leave a Blank Space.

 

 

I'll get my coat.

[Hurlshort]

57 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

True Swifties won't vote.

They'll just leave a Blank Space.

 

 

I'll get my coat.

I assume we need to know Taylor Swift songs to get that joke.

[Zoraptor]

 

3.5bn views, so statistically nearly half the world's population could have watched it on yt.

(Personally, I genuinely like Blank Space)

[majestic]

I think that might have been the second Taylor Swift song that I have listened to, after Shake It Off. Goes to show perfectly just how ignorant of pop music I have become in the past 15 years, which is pretty much exactly when I joined a new team at work and no longer had any colleagues who listen to the radio while working.

At a first listen I do not particularily care for Blank Space, then again, it is also rather far from what I usually listen to, so that is not entirely unexpected.

Edited September 14 by majestic

[Malcador]

I always confuse Shake It Off with the Florence the Machine song Shake it Out. Never sure why

Edited September 15 by Malcador

[Bartimaeus]

Despite being someone who dislikes her voice and who especially dislikes her lyrics most every time I listen to a new song of hers, I've contrarily had the misfortune of having to be the one to defend her a number of times over the years. It's become especially bad recently as of the last year because of her new fandom and subsequent media presence with regards to American football and how much impotent rage there is directed towards her because she merely exists and the TV networks want to capitalize on showing her off. It's not a position that I love being in, but I guess at least she's tried to be helpful with recent elections.

Edited September 15 by Bartimaeus
first sentence sounded funny

[Gorth]

9 hours ago, majestic said:

I think that might have been the second Taylor Swift song that I have listened to, after Shake It Off. Goes to show perfectly just how ignorant of pop music I have become in the past 15 years, which is pretty much exactly when I joined a new team at work and no longer had any colleagues who listen to the radio while working.

At a first listen I do not particularily care for Blank Space, then again, it is also rather far from what I usually listen to, so that is not entirely unexpected.

You are indeed a brave man... I lasted for all of 20 seconds before hitting the stop button

Different people obviously have different tastes. Must be lots of other people out there who dig it

Back to browsing cats in Springfield memes on the internet...

[Pidesco]

My problem with Taylor Swift is that she isn't even bad. Just so bland, generic, nondescript.

[ShadySands]

I feel like I'm often defending things I don't care much for or about just because someone is so badly misrepresenting it or making outrageous and often easily debunked claims.

I was raised to challenge ignorance wherever I see it especially if it's my own ignorance but that obviously can't apply to the internet.

Believe it or not the main reason I go back and forth with Bruce so much is because I honestly like him. Otherwise I wouldn't bother.

And with that I'm probably done with this particular thread for a bit. Toodles.

Edited September 15 by ShadySands

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, ShadySands said:

I feel like I'm often defending things I don't care much for or about just because someone is so badly misrepresenting it or making outrageous and often easily debunked claims.

I was raised to challenge ignorance wherever I see it especially if it's my own ignorance but that obviously can't apply to the internet.

Believe it or not the main reason I go back and forth with Bruce so much is because I honestly like him. Otherwise I wouldn't bother.

And with that I'm probably done with this particular thread for a bit. Toodles.

And I appreciate you engaging  and sharing your opinion

It wouldn't  be a debate  if  we didnt  have different opinions 

 

[Malcador]

Another person seems to have planned to take a shot at Trump

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/16/trump-golf-club-shooting-what-we-know-so-far-about-apparent-assassination-attempt

Guy seems to be a whacko from his social media, not surprisingly.

[Bartimaeus]

Didn't get any shots off...more a concept of an assassination, really.

[Lexx]

Why nobody tries to kill Kamala / Biden -Elon Musk

[LadyCrimson]

This generation of would be political assassins are apparently of low caliber.

I am picturing Trump running around in (showy, bulky) full body armor/helmet and using that as some kind of a statement-platform. Maybe he'll start throwing hot dogs into the audience (a The Dead Zone book reference...).

This election is simply a joke. Although I have hope that Kamala Harris can win/maybe bring some sanity, if nothing else, back.

[uuuhhii]

25 minutes ago, LadyCrimson said:

This generation of would be political assassins are apparently of low caliber.

I am picturing Trump running around in (showy, bulky) full body armor/helmet and using that as some kind of a statement-platform. Maybe he'll start throwing hot dogs into the audience (a The Dead Zone book reference...).

This election is simply a joke. Although I have hope that Kamala Harris can win/maybe bring some sanity, if nothing else, back.

 

sanity drain with hydration

soon entire usa would be as insane as florida

[HoonDing]

You'd think the Secret Service themselves would personally take care of the insane fascist dictator, like the Praetorian Guard back in the day.

[Malcador]

https://www.rawstory.com/kamala-harris-assassination-attempt-trump-mar-a-lago/

Trump talking about de-escalating rhetoric