BG3

[Hawke64]

On 8/4/2023 at 2:26 PM, InsaneCommander said:

That depends. Are you playing as the Dark Urge?

A fully custom halfling rogue with the urchin background. Whose friends and family were killed by.. something (bandits? Goblins? A flood?), while the guardian looks like the former neighbour whom Rogue (it is the name) had not interacted much with.
I've just got to the first cut-scene with the guardian and the impression was similar to meeting Camellia. Might be because of the combination of appearance and animations.
Screenshots:

Spoiler

Not sure why elves specifically don't load well.

Also the HDD occasionally leads to rather amusing cut-scenes (Raphael).

Spoiler

 

4 hours ago, Wormerine said:

Playing as halfling, cutscenes have been mixed. Some work alright, there is pretty regular feeling that NPCs weren't quite meant to be looking down, and fairly regularly a cutscene breaks. In EA, at least, short races playthroughs were always a big more buggy than usual, so my guess would be that the same is true in 1.0.

The NPCs look at the PC and not where a human's head would be, so reasonably good.

On another note, I've found Withers and the hirelings. They are fully predetermined (class, name, and appearance) with 1 sentence of background story, so there might be no way to create another custom character in single-player. From what I've read on the forums, it is also impossible to kick out other players' custom characters if continuing the playthrough alone.

[Sarex]

Is it me or does the UI look less than good. Seems pretty unintuitive.

Also the mmo style inventory and items are so unfortunate. Did they really need to tier the items by color.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Sarex

[Wormerine]

4 hours ago, Sarex said:

Is it me or does the UI look less than good. Seems pretty unintuitive.

Which UI? 

Charactercreation/lvl up, is overall an improvement, but I found it confusing at times. I think I could easily miss some choices (even key choices) if I wouldn’t know what I am looking for. For example I don’t like how the game automatically selects things x even key things like subclass. It is especially problematic with classes who get their subclass later (like bard) - there is no fanfare that we get to make an important choice in character’s development. I could easily imagine people just picking stuff the game tells them to and moving forward, not realising they got assigned a subclass. 

hotbar is over engineered, but at least there are drop down menu. I find it functional, if not elegant. 

[HoonDing]

What is the 'guardian'?

[InsaneCommander]

I'll wait at least 2-4 weeks to play, which is good since I can't decide on a character. Probably an Elf Druid that will have high dexterity and behave like a Rogue. I wish there was a Rogue subclass or item that let me turn into a cat, because if this is anything like D:OS 1 and 2, then I'll be stealing everything that is not nailed down or in front of a guard.

On 8/4/2023 at 11:20 AM, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

There was a political figure who had an aide whose name translates to Portuguese or Brazilian slang as "Stupid Dumbass". This has nothing to do with BG3, I just think it's funny.

The worst offender is Star Wars. Episode I had Captain Panaka, which sounds like Captain idiot. And episode II had Sifo Dyas and Count Dooku, which sounds respectivelly as the past tense of "being f*****" and Count "I let people f*** me". They changed the names in the subtitles (for episode II only) but you could still hear it in the movies and it was hilarious.

5 hours ago, Sarex said:

Is it me or does the UI look less than good. Seems pretty unintuitive.

I'm definitely not a fan of the UI. The old style spell and ability symbols didn't age well in my opinion, but that is not a problem.

24 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

What is the 'guardian'?

I don't know, but (in character creation) it used to be a character who you consider attractive or dream about, so it's probably a good idea to keep that in mind and avoid any unpleasant scenes later.

[Theonlygarby]

I have decided to make a mime bard so the awkward dialog scenes make more sense.  Bards don't need to sing do they?

 

[Gorgon]

yeah, the singing was always stupid. after playing for around 3 hours im finally starting, as a female high elf paladin/cleric. because the paladin armor looks the coolest and i like her snarky holier than thou expression. 

healing spells don't need a DC boost to be useful, so i can just do most of my healing from the paladin spell pool., that way i don't have to up charisma. Not practical to increase more than 3 scores past their default i should think.

 

[Wormerine]

12 hours ago, HoonDing said:

What is the 'guardian'?

Fortunately, I can't give you specifics, but:

As far as I know it is a manifestation of tadpole. In the EA it was "who are you atracted to" - a customisable NPC during character creation, that later appeared in your dreams if use used the power of your tadpole too much. It was a bit awkward and creepy, so it seemed they might have changed the angle of the apparition. I think I read that the aparition might also be different for individual origins - but I can't confirm it at the moment. I don't plan on using tadpole in this playthrough so I might never find out.

[Sarex]

12 hours ago, Wormerine said:

Which UI? 

Charactercreation/lvl up, is overall an improvement, but I found it confusing at times. I think I could easily miss some choices (even key choices) if I wouldn’t know what I am looking for. For example I don’t like how the game automatically selects things x even key things like subclass. It is especially problematic with classes who get their subclass later (like bard) - there is no fanfare that we get to make an important choice in character’s development. I could easily imagine people just picking stuff the game tells them to and moving forward, not realising they got assigned a subclass. 

hotbar is over engineered, but at least there are drop down menu. I find it functional, if not elegant. 

The actionbar. Tbh, I prefer the drop downs, they allow some organization and relegation of abilities you don't care about. The more I look at it the more I'm reminded of a mmo.

I think this game will benefit from some cook time, so it may be well and good to play it at a later time.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

12 minutes ago, Sarex said:

I think this game will benefit from some cook time, so it may be well and good to play it at a later time.

That's what I'm thinking as well. But I have to say most of what I've heard is positive and I do want to give it a go

[Hawke64]

13 hours ago, Wormerine said:

Which UI? 

Charactercreation/lvl up, is overall an improvement, but I found it confusing at times. I think I could easily miss some choices (even key choices) if I wouldn’t know what I am looking for. For example I don’t like how the game automatically selects things x even key things like subclass. It is especially problematic with classes who get their subclass later (like bard) - there is no fanfare that we get to make an important choice in character’s development. I could easily imagine people just picking stuff the game tells them to and moving forward, not realising they got assigned a subclass. 

hotbar is over engineered, but at least there are drop down menu. I find it functional, if not elegant. 

You can choose subclasses for the companions? I thought that the optional aspects are shown in red and possible to change (e.g. spells for wizards)?

Also, I have discovered that there is non-lethal combat. After killing 2 hostile children and a possible companion. So, my issue with the UI is that, firstly, it is too small (just 30-50% larger and with the images on the icons filled instead of outlined) and secondly, spread out between the quick bar and the context menu with some actions possible to bind to keys and some not. The non-lethal stance is on the Passive abilities tab, while the dual-wielding is on the left from the bar. Picking up or examining an object or a character is in the context menu, pushing is on the quick bar. Considering the complexity, I doubt that it could be much better, but if it was at least gathered in one place and pointed out earlier, it could be comfortable. Though, there are a custom bar and the default interaction with objects usually makes sense. Unless you are a rogue and the object is locked, then you try to open it instead of lockpicking.

33 minutes ago, Wormerine said:

Fortunately, I can't give you specifics, but:

 

  Hide contents

 

As far as I know it is a manifestation of tadpole. In the EA it was "who are you atracted to" - a customisable NPC during character creation, that later appeared in your dreams if use used the power of your tadpole too much. It was a bit awkward and creepy, so it seemed they might have changed the angle of the apparition. I think I read that the aparition might also be different for individual origins - but I can't confirm it at the moment. I don't plan on using tadpole in this playthrough so I might never find out.

 

In the full version, the guardian (the introduction line in the Character Creator "You need a guardian. Choose one") is a character who visits you in dreams and claims being the one who has saved you from certain death.
In EA the introduction was "Who do you dream of?" and, as you said, if you dreamt about your grandfather teaching you to fight or a shadow druid who killed your family (in case if the robe and the jewellery were not clear enough), well, the following scenes were not exactly pleasant. So, I am glad that it was rewritten. A screenshot from the character creation screen:

Spoiler

For Origins, the guardian is customisable. Tested with Wyll.

Spoiler

Now the guardian still told me to learn to wield the tadpole powers and the other companions saw their guardians as well, so I am unsure how much was changed narratively.

 

[Sarex]

28 minutes ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

That's what I'm thinking as well. But I have to say most of what I've heard is positive and I do want to give it a go

I think it looks great for what it is, which is not IE or the PF games (or in my mind a crpg) and that's how I will treat it. It's more along the lines of DA:O. While I don't like many of the small things that I saw so far, overall I think it's worth trying to play for myself and deciding if I like it. Saying that I do not feel the overwhelming urge to install it right away and play it.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Sarex

[MrBrown]

3 hours ago, Sarex said:

I think this game will benefit from some cook time, so it may be well and good to play it at a later time.

Doubt it. All the bad things about the UI I've seen people talk about, it's always been "it was like that in DOS2 too". So I think most of that stuff is here to stay.

[Sarex]

44 minutes ago, MrBrown said:

Doubt it. All the bad things about the UI I've seen people talk about, it's always been "it was like that in DOS2 too". So I think most of that stuff is here to stay.

I wasn't thinking of that (UI) in particular, more for the game overall.

[MrBrown]

28 minutes ago, Sarex said:

I wasn't thinking of that (UI) in particular, more for the game overall.

The game looks pretty finished to me, in other aspects. Still in Act 1 though.

[Wormerine]

6 hours ago, Sarex said:

The actionbar. Tbh, I prefer the drop downs,

As far as I am concerned they started with wrong UI design (action bar from D:OS2) and than started to add features to make it viable. I think it's biggest failure is in tutorialising the mechanics - playing Solasta I never had an issue understanding how the class works, what consumes what resource, and what options i have. BG3 is messy in that regard.

That said, the UI revision they did midway through EA was a great improvement, and 1.0 is still better than what we have.

My prefer method is:

1) remove all (red) weapon skills. Those can be displayed by pressing weapon icon (together with relevant items, like arrows for ranged weapons)

2) If melee class - organise their skills. They tend to not have much, so hotbar is usually enough to have them neatly organised... at least on low levels.

3) if spellcaster - remove all spells consuming a resource from the hotbar. Leave cantrips and item spells only, and organise them in the way so I can see which is which, and what action they consume (main/bonus). If I want to use higher level spell, I will use drop down menu anyway

4) Go to "custom" tab, and assign shortcuts for commonly used skills - so damage cantrips etc.

5) set all reactions to "ask"

6) you can assign passives to main bar - so move non-lethal attack and class specific toggles (like push eldrich blast) to main bar when applicable.

 

More management that I wish I would have to do (preferable would be none, except for occasional shortcuts. Hotbar shoudl be just that - a bar to access "hot" skills, not "design proper UI" toolbox)

6 hours ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

That's what I'm thinking as well. But I have to say most of what I've heard is positive and I do want to give it a go

I am sure the game will be better with time. It is a game in which a lot can happen, and I am sure something is bound to break eventually. So far, though, it is far more polished that I expected. No issues worth mentioning. The real test will be once I leave EA area, that received less public scrutiny over the last 3 years.

 

6 hours ago, Hawke64 said:

You can choose subclasses for the companions? I thought that the optional aspects are shown in red and possible to change (e.g. spells for wizards)?

If companions gain their subclasses later (Laezel, Wyll, Astarion) you choose the subclass on level up. Same with PC. For some unknown reason the game automatically picks first subclass and doesn't highlight it. Abysmally bad design, if you ask me.

If you want to change the choices the game made for you and never told you about, your friendly camp ghul will do it for you.

[Sven_]

Over 800K concurrent players on Steam (just slightly lower than the peak of Hogwarts Legacy, a casual action-RPG with one of the biggest brand names around behind it), high ranks in preorder charts for consoles...

It's crazy going back to Matt Barton's interview with Vincke from pre-DOS times on Matt Chat. You'll see a frustrated guy talking about how he was rejected by publishers over and over, been driven to include MOAR action, as that's apparently what audiences want.

Everybody told him that's not gonna work. And now he's shown them. Crazy.

I'm likely going to stick with this, despite my ancient 1050ti. Got a bit tired with Pathfinder WOTR, as that is basically "Trash Mob Combat-The Game", to a degree even moreso than Kingmaker. Obviously, BG3, offering more options to direct combat (even back in 2020), no-combat solutions and more is going to be a much welcomed change in pace.

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Sven_

[InsaneCommander]

I decided to take a look at the game and got lucky, downloading it in about an hour. Character creation seems to have some problems, like clothes not showing properly or not loading fast enough, so every time I change the class, I can see the character naked. I'm glad they made it female by default.

[Hurlshort]

The UI is complicated, but there is also a tremendous amount of complicated things you can do in the game. It's not click and kill like Diablo.

[Wormerine]

1 hour ago, Hurlshort said:

The UI is complicated, but there is also a tremendous amount of complicated things you can do in the game.

Not really. It's just not a very elegant UI

2 hours ago, Sven_ said:

Over 800K concurrent players on Steam (just slightly lower than the peak of Hogwarts Legacy, a casual action-RPG with one of the biggest brand names around behind it), high ranks in preorder charts for consoles...

Yeah, I didn't see the coming. That is will do well was fairly predictible (I think it already sold 2,5m in early access), but it seemed to break into the mainstream in the way I didn't expect.

And so far I am enjoying the game much more than I expected. I really like rewrite of Wyll. It's still more or less the same character, just more charismatic with a better told story. To my shock I am quite enjoying the companions overall - even Astarion. To my shock, because I found them to be insufferable in early access. Funny how much impact small rewrites can have on characters.

[Sven_]

2 hours ago, Wormerine said:

Yeah, I didn't see the coming. That is will do well was fairly predictible (I think it already sold 2,5m in early access), but it seemed to break into the mainstream in the way I didn't expect.

Same. Even Larian themselves calculated with up to 100,000 players concurrently (see Vincke's Twitter). The EA was a success, but there was a viable possibility that player's who'd bought the game had already bought it.

That said, can you imagine the numbers hadn't they paired with D&D, but LOTR? Crazy. Maybe that's their next goal.

Well, either that, or buying the rights to Ultima. For which they now must have money a plenty, given their independent status. How an obsession with Ultima 7 led to some of the PC's best RPGs | PC Gamer

I liked the EA back in 2020 already though. And certainly far more than DOS.

- The map was actually open, rather than pretending to be (no clearly level gating and zones, no clear gate keeping of every possible path either, making maps feel like thinly veiled linear compat parcours in DOS)
- no DOS item system of every gear having a level, so that you'd need to replace it like five minutes after looting
- constant looting and selling was a pain in the butt in DOS either way, and a time-sinking mini game on its own, also thanks to UI issues (honestly BG1 plays more user-friendly than this)
- Also no copy&paste trash mobs, like the orcs in the second map of DOS, and generally more "quality over quantity", including more varied avenues of getting past foes

I honestly think DOS would have worked better as a tactical combat game... with more ressources being spend on making scnearios unique, think Blackguards. BG3 is a fully-fledged RPG proper, including your low int Barbarian having the options to intimdate the **** (and combat urge) out of foes quite regularly.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Sven_

[MrBrown]

I have no idea why BG3 turned out to be such a big thing. It doesn't do things that differently from other RPGs like PoE or the PF ones.

Better graphics, yes. Besides that (and the nakedness), the only thing it does differently is the large number of options based on class, skill, spells, etc. Which is great, but to me it still doesn't explain the popularity.

[bugarup]

My guess would be....urk......multiplayer. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by bugarup

[Sarex]

51 minutes ago, MrBrown said:

I have no idea why BG3 turned out to be such a big thing. It doesn't do things that differently from other RPGs like PoE or the PF ones.

Better graphics, yes. Besides that (and the nakedness), the only thing it does differently is the large number of options based on class, skill, spells, etc. Which is great, but to me it still doesn't explain the popularity.

DOS2 was very popular.

8 hours ago, Hurlshort said:

The UI is complicated, but there is also a tremendous amount of complicated things you can do in the game. It's not click and kill like Diablo.

I agree with @Wormerine. If nothing else, it's even simpler than it's counterparts in some aspects.

[BruceVC]

8 hours ago, Wormerine said:

Not really. It's just not a very elegant UI

Yeah, I didn't see the coming. That is will do well was fairly predictible (I think it already sold 2,5m in early access), but it seemed to break into the mainstream in the way I didn't expect.

And so far I am enjoying the game much more than I expected. I really like rewrite of Wyll. It's still more or less the same character, just more charismatic with a better told story. To my shock I am quite enjoying the companions overall - even Astarion. To my shock, because I found them to be insufferable in early access. Funny how much impact small rewrites can have on characters.

Wormie what I have been saying for the last 2 years, BG3 is going to be an epic game. Larian would never let us down on  such an iconic game