Ukraine Conflict - The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

What do you guys think, can Africa find a peaceful solution to this conflict?

No. Because you're not dealing with reasonable people. You're dealing with nationalists. Different rules apply. Yes, there are rules these people live by, but those rules make no sense to reasonable people.

 

[Mamoulian War]

According some Russian sources, they destroyed Patriot not only in Kiyv, but in Mykolaiv as well. From Mykolaiv, there is only an explosion in Supermarket reported. So it looks like, as soon as RU hits some civilian target, it will reported as another Patriot destruction

[xzar_monty]

The bank accounts of Finland's embassies in Russia have been frozen. This is purely out of spite, I suppose.

(https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/may/17/russia-ukraine-war-live-last-ship-to-leave-ukraine-under-current-grain-deal-jets-pledge-a-good-start-says-zelenskiy?CMP=share_btn_tw&page=with%3Ablock-64648a908f08053fbe092e9f#block-64648a908f08053fbe092e9f)

[Malcador]

7 hours ago, BruceVC said:

What do you guys think, can Africa find a peaceful solution to this conflict?

Probably not, neither side is really willing to compromise much at this point.

[Gfted1]

Im not fully following the details of the latest bombardment. Afaik, Ukraine has a total of two Patriot batteries (one from US, one from Germany) and each battery holds a maximum of four interceptors at once. Even if Ukraine had both batteries parked on top of each other, how did they rip of 20+ interceptors?

[Elerond]

5 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Im not fully following the details of the latest bombardment. Afaik, Ukraine has a total of two Patriot batteries (one from US, one from Germany) and each battery holds a maximum of four interceptors at once. Even if Ukraine had both batteries parked on top of each other, how did they rip of 20+ interceptors?

In my understanding they have two full patriot systems one from USA and one from Germany. 

Which both have control station, radar system, communication system, mobile energy plant and several 4/8/12/16 missile launchers that together form an artillery battery unit.

Although media coverage about Ukraine's Patriots probably causes confusion as they are calling both artillery battery unit and single patriot launcher as patriot batteries in their reporting and it is often difficult to tell which they are referring to.

That video that show air defense in Kyiv there were over 30 missiles/rockets launched by air defense from multiple locations and they seemed to be multiple different types based on how big light circle around them is and how fast they move. It is unlikely that they were all launched by patriot system, because launched happen in two short bursts which had only six minutes between them. I think it is unlikely that Ukraine has currently capacity to shoot over 30 patriot missiles in 7 minutes, because that would need quite lot launchers and both Germany and USA have usually gifted only couple systems at time when they send something to Ukraine. I also don't think that Germany or USA supplied Ukraine  multiple different type patriot missiles for those few launchers they gave them. So I think most of the missiles seen on the video are probably from Ukraine's S300 or Bulk systems or from NASAMS systems that Norway gifted to Ukraine last year or from Crotale systems that France gifted Ukraine

[Gfted1]

3 minutes ago, Elerond said:

...and several 4/8/12/16 missile launchers that together form an artillery battery unit.

Ah, ty. I didnt realize the launchers came in larger capacities.

[Mamoulian War]

US officials have confirmed to AFP, that UA Patriot is damaged but in working condition.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/17/7402682/

[Mamoulian War]

CIA started to recruit Russian on Telegram, they published two videos

the Russian officials is going all crazy about it, and the funny thing is, that Peskov and Zakharova are helping a lot to spread these videos in Russia

[Malcador]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/cia-posts-video-asking-russians-share-secrets-us-spies-rcna84595

"The CIA official said that despite Washington’s disagreements with Putin, “the United States and Russian people are not enemies,” adding, “We admire the courage and grit of so many Russians determined to maintain Russia’s values and ideals.”"

Hope they don't put too much faith in the CIA to protect them.

[Zoraptor]

5 hours ago, Elerond said:

In my understanding they have two full patriot systems one from USA and one from Germany. 

Which both have control station, radar system, communication system, mobile energy plant and several 4/8/12/16 missile launchers that together form an artillery battery unit.

There is the potential for other unannounced systems to be there as well as the two announced ones. Probably not though*.

No one seems to be sure how many launchers per battery there are, I've seen 4/6/8 all stated with absolute authority. At least some** of the missiles are PAC-3CRI which would potentially be 16 missiles per launcher and (marginally) it could have been one (patriot) launcher present. If they did supply PAC-2 and -3 missiles the launches could all be Patriots, but I'd agree that something else seems likely for the smaller ones. Also, you'd really hope that they'd have been told not to bunch the systems the way that video implies.

In any case, it's fair to say that the 100% interception claim from Zaluzhny is pretty much, uh, shot down at this point. At least three confirmed hits.

*So no chance of any in Mikolaev as per MW (though also, the video implies the supermarket was storing something a lot spicier than borscht)

**and if you want evidence of PAC-2 being present too that first kinzhal 'downed' was meant to be via PAC-2 due to the damage done to its warhead. Though obviously I'm not exactly convinced personally by the value of that evidence that is what is meant to have happened.

Quote

Although media coverage about Ukraine's Patriots probably causes confusion as they are calling both artillery battery unit and single patriot launcher as patriot batteries in their reporting and it is often difficult to tell which they are referring to.

Or using the term 'system', like the US military did. Designed to imply slight damage to a single launcher, but could just as easily mean half the battery is gone but the rest is still working. I'd say the default from the video is that something else (NASAMS? IRIS-T?) got hit and a Patriot took some damage

Edited May 17, 2023 by Zoraptor

[pmp10]

And in diplomatic news:
Chinees envoy was told Ukraine won't accept territorial loss or freezing of the conflict.

We will see if anything changes after the offensive or the NATO summit. 

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, pmp10 said:

And in diplomatic news:
Chinees envoy was told Ukraine won't accept territorial loss or freezing of the conflict.

We will see if anything changes after the offensive or the NATO summit. 

But thats kind of obvious because no ones accepts the illegally annexed Donbas areas and this doesnt apply to Crimea because the link states " that relied on giving up territory after Russia’s invasion" 

[xzar_monty]

Senior Russian officials forbidden to resign? Wouldn't be surprised if this was completely true:

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-17-23/h_2738f81391832671709d39eeb3a351a6

Edited May 18, 2023 by xzar_monty

[kanisatha]

22 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

Ah, ty. I didnt realize the launchers came in larger capacities.

Patriot comes in a quad towed-TEL (transporter erector launcher). The military unit known as a battery can vary in how many such launchers it has. US Patriot batteries have either four or six launchers each (typically four), plus all the other pieces such as the radar, engagement control station, power plant, etc.

[Lexx]

3 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

Senior Russian officials forbidden to resign? Wouldn't be surprised if this was completely true:

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-17-23/h_2738f81391832671709d39eeb3a351a6

Only in death does duty end.

[Mamoulian War]

An analysis of satellite images of the site, where Patriot has been most likely deployed in Kyiv.

 

[Mamoulian War]

And according Pentagon, the damage on Patriot is already repaired

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/18/7402855/

[Malcador]

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/18/politics/us-allies-f-16-jets-ukraine/index.html

"Without the jets, Ukraine is having to improvise, officials say. Defense officials and congressional staffers told CNN that Ukrainian troops have in recent weeks used the US-made Patriot air defense system to shoot down at least one faraway Russian fighter jet. The Russian jets have largely been staying behind Russian defensive lines, making them difficult for Ukraine to target with shorter-range systems like NASAMs.

The Russian planes the Patriot targeted were on a bombing run to fire missiles against Ukrainian targets, US officials said, which Russia has been doing throughout the past year to maximize civilian casualties."

Interesting, would have expected more crowing.  I like the phrasing "bombing run to fire missiles" as well, heh.

[Mamoulian War]

A little bit insight, why there why the number of dead Russian soldiers are so big. Crazy big numbers of them just die, due to non-existant treatment of anything more serious than light wounds… The RU paramedics are not even able to perform some life-saving procedures, due to them being in risk of breaking RU law and get arrested for performing unauthorised surgical intervention

 

[Malcador]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/18/us/politics/ukraine-spending-congress.html

 

[Elerond]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/18/us/politics/ukraine-spending-congress.html

 

Who among us has not at least once in their life done $3 billion dollar accounting mistake?

[Keyrock]

3 hours ago, Malcador said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/18/us/politics/ukraine-spending-congress.html

 

An accounting mistake from the Pentagon? You mean the same Pentagon that has failed 5 audits in a row? The same Pentagon that can only account for 39% of its 3.5 trillion dollars in assets? Who'd a thunk it?

Over 2.1 TRILLION dollars in assets that cannot be accounted for. Where are they? What happened to them? Did these assets even ever exist? What was the money actually used for?

Truly a well run and managed organization with definitely NO corruption within it, that Pentagon.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Keyrock

[HoonDing]

The buck stops in their pocket.

[pmp10]

US is now fine with Ukraine getting F-16s.
It's not about to provide any (yet?) but chances are that some European countries will.

This leaves ATACMS as the final tech that US would not provide so far.