The All Things Political Topic - A politician needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow, next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn’t happen

[BruceVC]

4 hours ago, Hurlsnot said:

Yes, the BLM protesters are the real problem.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61773358

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/drag-queen-story-hour-disrupted-men-shouting-slurs-authorities-say-rcna33184

The problem is from both  left and right extremism. And yes this particular story is concerning and Im glad they were arrested before they commit acts of hate. But the US, like many countries, doesn't just have one main issue around extremism. As you know their are different degrees of violence and criminality depending on what group or ideological movement you track. So I dont think BLM is the "real  " problem in the US, I dont think it is a problem at all. I think violent protests are an issue and how a precedent gets set when their is no  accountability and the boundaries will get pushed and pushed

5 hours ago, Gorth said:

There, fixed it for you....

People who broke the law on the 6 January must be prosecuted, Im not sure why you would think I am suggesting anything different? 

 

[Gorth]

1 minute ago, BruceVC said:

People who broke the law on the 6 January must be prosecuted, Im not sure why you would think I am suggesting anything different?

You were implying they have bigger problems than those who wants to do away with congress and democracy. Two important parts of the identity of the US. You could argue street violence, gang wars and high crime rates are part of it too, but those don't directly threaten the above the same way the far right does.

[BruceVC]

32 minutes ago, Gorth said:

You were implying they have bigger problems than those who wants to do away with congress and democracy. Two important parts of the identity of the US. You could argue street violence, gang wars and high crime rates are part of it too, but those don't directly threaten the above the same way the far right does.

No you misunderstanding the context of my comment, we were not talking about 6 January insurrection

We were talking about the assassination attempt of Kavanaugh

These are 2 separate developments 

[Gorth]

27 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

No you misunderstanding the context of my comment, we were not talking about 6 January insurrection

We were talking about the assassination attempt of Kavanaugh

These are 2 separate developments 

Strange... I could have sworn this was what you said

On 6/13/2022 at 2:33 PM, BruceVC said:

Well Im glad someone else is concerned. I raised how their were protests outside both Kavanaugh and Roberts private  home  because of Roe vs Wade and how it is completely unacceptable. The radical left always goes too far 

And I dont see how it changes the final outcome for R vs W

But their is a  real problem in some US states where protestors now believe they can protest and almost do what they want with no legal consequences, you will see this with some of the BLM marches. The only way you end this culture of "protest entitlement  " is to nip it in the bud in the beginning. Allow people to protest as its their Constitutional right in all our countries but act decisively on anyone who breaks the law

 

You apparently know way more about Nicholas John Roske than the combined world press, as no quote worthy source has identified any political affiliation of the guy. Just a nutcase on medication, being mad about school shootings and the potential trip back to the stone age socially by reversing Roe vs. Wade.

 

But... he was probably hired by the BLM top secret global head quarters to carry out the assassination

[BruceVC]

6 minutes ago, Gorth said:

 

 

But... he was probably hired by the BLM top secret global head quarters to carry out the assassination

You think BLM could be behind it, I suppose its possible but its unlikely because BLM doesnt have an official leadership structure or HQ so its highly unlikely 

[Raithe]

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/cambodian-court-jails-american-lawyer-dozens-others-treason-2022-06-14/

[Chairchucker]

On 6/13/2022 at 2:33 PM, BruceVC said:

Well Im glad someone else is concerned. I raised how their were protests outside both Kavanaugh and Roberts private  home  because of Roe vs Wade and how it is completely unacceptable. The radical left always goes too far 

And I dont see how it changes the final outcome for R vs W

But their is a  real problem in some US states where protestors now believe they can protest and almost do what they want with no legal consequences, you will see this with some of the BLM marches. The only way you end this culture of "protest entitlement  " is to nip it in the bud in the beginning. Allow people to protest as its their Constitutional right in all our countries but act decisively on anyone who breaks the law

 

Interesting you should mention the BLM protests; I am aware that there was a lot of press around them that made them out to be one step away from re-enacting Mad Max. However, the research suggests otherwise.

https://www.radcliffe.harvard.edu/news-and-ideas/black-lives-matter-protesters-were-overwhelmingly-peaceful-our-research-finds

"When there was violence, very often police or counterprotesters were reportedly directing it at the protesters."

"...most of the violence that did take place was, in fact, directed against the BLM protesters."

 

One can only speculate why news coverage of these events might have led people to believe that BLM protesters were a bunch of lawless ne'er-do-wells.

 

EDIT: While I'm here, some Australia election news! One of the minor downsides of having one of the better voting systems is that the votes can take a long time to count. We finally have the first senate results - in ACT and NT - and ACT officially have created history in two ways:

 

David Po****(oh dang it they're still censoring the one that means rooster, ey? Gotta sort your word filter out Obsidz) (Born in Zimbabwe, ex Australian Rugby Union captain, captaincy cut short after he was arrested for chaining himself to a coal digger in protest) has officially won a seat in the ACT senate, marking:

The first ever Independent senator in the ACT

The first time since the introduction of preferential voting that one of the two major parties has been completely voted out of a state or territory.

 

Get rekt, LNP.

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Chairchucker

[Gromnir]

7 hours ago, Gorth said:

Strange... I could have sworn this was what you said

You apparently know way more about Nicholas John Roske than the combined world press, as no quote worthy source has identified any political affiliation of the guy. Just a nutcase on medication, being mad about school shootings and the potential trip back to the stone age socially by reversing Roe vs. Wade.

 

But... he was probably hired by the BLM top secret global head quarters to carry out the assassination

"If you look at the people that have been arrested for that, by and large, I mean, it's the boogaloo movement or it's an association with QAnon. It's the right side of the spectrum. It is not antifa." She's unequivocal about this: "The threat of domestic terrorism is not from antifa. It is from these right-wing movements."

am not sure how many times the but what about blm and antifa people need be reminded it ain't those organizations which pose a significant ongoing threat to americans or american democracy. when was the last s'posed blm led riot btw? once fed troops pulled out of portland, what happened to the protests in that and similar cities? yeah, the next time a minority dies in an altercation with police there will be more than a few people who instant call for reciprocal violence instead o' keeping their protests genuine peaceful, but in spite o' breitbart and fox news lurid images, most summer protests were (summers o' a few years past btw) peaceful... which is precise why fox got caught doctoring riot imagery and pasting in violence from earlier protests and even spain to give the weak-kneed pearl clutchers "proof" o' minority violence. 

Champaign Man Sentenced for Inciting Riot

four years in prison and $1.5 million dollars for a facebook post.

is not as if mr. betts were the only protester arrested and eventual punished by the courts, though admitted most state punishments for rioting specific and the like is kinda light and is often difficult to prove who exact were responsible for a burned down big-o tire store which were destroyed during the chaos o' a riot. summer protests were not quite having the plethora o' security cameras and visibility o' a daylight riot at the Capitol, eh? regardless lib and progressive Congressmen, as well as kamala harris who with her tough-on-crime resume don't check the lib or progressive boxes, got themselves in hot water for making donations to defense funds for those arrested during the protests precise 'cause so many people were arrested and eventual charged with crimes. 

nevertheless we see the same people trying to rehabilitate the same stoopid without even bothering to come up with a new angle.  ain't worth the effort but we sympathize with gorth 'cause am also reflexive condemning the inanity, which is why we added numerous folks to ignore. unfortunate the ignore is not foolproof as we nevertheless see quotable and a few o' the worst purveyors o' stoopid is your fellow mods who are not subject to the ignore feature.

so it goes.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Gromnir

[Agiel]

Regular reminder that at their genuine worst the most extreme elements of BLM and Antifa (such as it is) aren't even in the same solar system in terms of danger as far-left movements of the 60s through the 80s. They aren't coming back from well-financed PLO training camps in Lebanon as the Baader–Meinhof Gang did to rob banks, kidnap business executives, hijack airlines, or bomb NATO airbases. They have not engaged in a decades long period of violence so insensate that it earned the moniker "Anni di piombo" (in this instance far-right groups were also involved), climaxing with the kidnapping and execution of a head of government. Even the American brand of left-wing terrorism, launched during the depths of American involvement in Vietnam, was extremely tame compared to the above examples; such actions were more akin to pranks that when after reporting them news anchors would smoothly follow with "Here's Tom with sports". The most high-profile example being the kidnapping of an heiress, who later joined the cause of the SLA and helped them rob banks, and was famously parodied in the film <<Network>>:

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Agiel

[alanschu]

On 6/8/2022 at 4:29 AM, Gorth said:

He never did it himself.

I do find it weirdly hilarious that the measuring stick for whether or not someone lied appears to be... if they admitted that they indeed lied hahaha.

[Raithe]

Ah. Louisiana.

https://www.wbrz.com/news/investigative-unit-rape-victim-ordered-to-pay-her-abuser-child-support/

Edited June 14, 2022 by Raithe

[alanschu]

4 hours ago, Gromnir said:

am not sure how many times the but what about blm and antifa people need be reminded it ain't those organizations which pose a significant ongoing threat to americans or american democracy. when was the last s'posed blm led riot btw? once fed troops pulled out of portland, what happened to the protests in that and similar cities? yeah, the next time a minority dies in an altercation with police there will be more than a few people who instant call for reciprocal violence instead o' keeping their protests genuine peaceful, but in spite o' breitbart and fox news lurid images, most summer protests were (summers o' a few years past btw) peaceful... which is precise why fox got caught doctoring riot imagery and pasting in violence from earlier protests and even spain to give the weak-kneed pearl clutchers "proof" o' minority violence. 

The cynic in me suggests "an infinite amount of times" since they aren't open to the idea. Indeed someone stating "the radical left always goes too far" but never mind that some of Portland's riot training materials concluded their power point presentations with memes about beating lefties.

 

The one "benefit" of police abuses the summer of 2020 was that there was enough video evidence (people being shot in the face with gas canisters for no reason, tear gassing a bunch of Moms in Portland, pinning people on the side of a freeway with no escape and then launching tear gas at them in Philly and then falsely claiming it was because the protesters were a "violent mob"... and this is just the stuff I remember off the top of my head) from people on the street that my parents were "well wait... this seems wrong" about police actions.

A big influence in my slide away from Conservatism was seeing some of the reactions, excuses, and justifications for state sanctioned violence that not only literally suppressed people's freedoms, but also cost citizens a lot of money in legal settlements. Not that any individual is immune to being hypocritical, but eventually there was too much cognitive dissonance on my part to comfortably uphold my political affiliations without some degree of reflection.

[Gfted1]

"For thou stinketh of patchouli and BO"  That hit me right in the funny bone. 

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, alanschu said:

The cynic in me suggests "an infinite amount of times" since they aren't open to the idea. Indeed someone stating "the radical left always goes too far" but never mind that some of Portland's riot training materials concluded their power point presentations with memes about beating lefties.

 

The one "benefit" of police abuses the summer of 2020 was that there was enough video evidence (people being shot in the face with gas canisters for no reason, tear gassing a bunch of Moms in Portland, pinning people on the side of a freeway with no escape and then launching tear gas at them in Philly and then falsely claiming it was because the protesters were a "violent mob"... and this is just the stuff I remember off the top of my head) from people on the street that my parents were "well wait... this seems wrong" about police actions.

A big influence in my slide away from Conservatism was seeing some of the reactions, excuses, and justifications for state sanctioned violence that not only literally suppressed people's freedoms, but also cost citizens a lot of money in legal settlements. Not that any individual is immune to being hypocritical, but eventually there was too much cognitive dissonance on my part to comfortably uphold my political affiliations without some degree of reflection.

Alan do you believe that their has been no violence and criminality during any BLM protests from some  of the protestors? And  I consider looting of shops and businesses as criminality 

 

[majestic]

edit: Note to myself:

20 hours ago, majestic said:

The hell is wrong with me.

Edited June 14, 2022 by majestic

[Gfted1]

21 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Alan do you believe that their has been no violence and criminality during any BLM protests from some  of the protestors? And  I consider looting of shops and businesses as criminality 

 

When youre "punching up", nothing is illegal and they should be left to run wild until theyre tuckered. Imo. But rioters typically burn down their own towns and they would be much better served rioting in the fatcat parts of town.

[alanschu]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Alan do you believe that their has been no violence and criminality during any BLM protests from some  of the protestors? And  I consider looting of shops and businesses as criminality 

I think your question is disingenuous since there's a reason why you choose to expressly state "radical leftists go to far" and to highlight the criminality of BLM protesters only to get very defensive about Jan 6 rioters (something literally in present day discourse) and insist that it isn't what you were talking about when that is precisely what Gorth was calling you out on. But perhaps this is a hasty judgment I've made towards someone that thinks that a Conservative Political Party shouldn't even use a parliamentary mechanism that his country also has in light of reflecting on the possibility that their leader lying in the House of Commons might not be a good thing. Oh wait, he's not a liar since he didn't admit to lying...

You allegedly read my whole post and it seems the one conclusion I can infer you got from it is "Allan doesn't think some of the BLM protesters were violent??" Yet you get defensive when Gorth makes similar conclusions based on your own posts and what they do and do not explicitly state. And by a similar standard of what is explicitly stated, I guess I can also conclude that you have no issues with a state backed police force abusing their citizens and having no recourse to do anything about it because any attempts to do so often get flagged as criminal by that same state backed police force and the weight of all the misplaced institutionalized trust said forces are afforded.

Cheers.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

edit: Note to myself:

The hell is wrong with me.

You've applied your media consumption habits to forums, so you continue to engage with asinine takes from not-so-crypto-fascists despite the psychic damage they inflict.

[majestic]

1 hour ago, alanschu said:

But perhaps this is a hasty judgment I've made[...]

BruceVC and his thoughts about unions and violently breaking up protests.

"Unions ruin the economy."

"Sometimes governments have no choice but to violently end strikes."

"People on strike thought they were impervious to bullets so they got violent." and also "Affected shareholder values, so it was necessary to break up the strike."

Nothing hasty about your judgement. Don't let the old posts fool you, just because BruceVC stopped using there and is now typing their all the time, it's still the same poster.

57 minutes ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

You've applied your media consumption habits to forums, so you continue to engage with asinine takes from not-so-crypto-fascists despite the psychic damage they inflict.

I originally made a joke on their being a posessive pronoun. The Agent Smith showed up and asked me why I persist, and I had no real answer. I bet he'll come around the corner and will threaten to terminate this post too.

Edited June 14, 2022 by majestic
Put in reply to KP

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

30 minutes ago, majestic said:

I originally made a joke on their being a posessive pronoun. The Agent Smith showed up and asked me why I persist, and I had no real answer. I bet he'll come around the corner and will threaten to terminate this post too.

More likely he'll just make you watch a 10 hour long YouTube video about how the Wachowski's RUINED The Matrix by not casting Hugo Weaving in The Matrix Resurrections as punishment. You are......naughty after all

[majestic]

19 minutes ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

More likely he'll just make you watch a 10 hour long YouTube video about how the Wachowski's RUINED The Matrix by not casting Hugo Weaving in The Matrix Resurrections as punishment. You are......naughty after all

[Hurlshort]

2 hours ago, alanschu said:

I think your question is disingenuous

You can stop right there. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

Fun fact, I was going to do an Abeloth bit but couldn't make it work. Ah well. In Heaven Everything Is Fine.

[Gorth]

Peace for our time!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61801682

After almost 50 years, Denmark and Canada has agreed to the terms of a peace treaty to end the war over Hans Island. Aka the "Whisky Wars"

Tl;dr; both countries would take turns sending in their navy to land troops, place a flag, a bottle of booze (Canadian Whisky and Danish Schnaps) and sometimes written notices, on the island... for 49 years.

 

"...Over the following 49 years, dozens of Canadians and Danes took part in the ritual and visitors to the island describe a sea of slightly tattered flags and notices."

 

I noticed that the two countries forces left the flags behind and only took the booze bottles as "war trophies" 

 

"The deal will be signed once both countries grant parliamentary approval and will see the island split along a naturally occurring cleft on the rocky outcrop, according to a deal published by the Danish foreign ministry on Tuesday.

Once signed off, Canada and Denmark will have established the world's longest maritime border at 3,882km."

 

[BruceVC]

7 hours ago, alanschu said:

I think your question is disingenuous since there's a reason why you choose to expressly state "radical leftists go to far" and to highlight the criminality of BLM protesters only to get very defensive about Jan 6 rioters (something literally in present day discourse) and insist that it isn't what you were talking about when that is precisely what Gorth was calling you out on. But perhaps this is a hasty judgment I've made towards someone that thinks that a Conservative Political Party shouldn't even use a parliamentary mechanism that his country also has in light of reflecting on the possibility that their leader lying in the House of Commons might not be a good thing. Oh wait, he's not a liar since he didn't admit to lying...

You allegedly read my whole post and it seems the one conclusion I can infer you got from it is "Allan doesn't think some of the BLM protesters were violent??" Yet you get defensive when Gorth makes similar conclusions based on your own posts and what they do and do not explicitly state. And by a similar standard of what is explicitly stated, I guess I can also conclude that you have no issues with a state backed police force abusing their citizens and having no recourse to do anything about it because any attempts to do so often get flagged as criminal by that same state backed police force and the weight of all the misplaced institutionalized trust said forces are afforded.

Cheers.

No I was just asking if you think some of the BLM protestors are involved in criminality. I was  going to add  that many of the BLM protests are not about criminality but  as usual in culture wars many  people in the USA, and other countries,  tend to generalize which shuts down debate in the US which is one of the reasons you have this political dichotomy and endless left vs right invective  which is represented in both Congress and on the ground amongst many Americans

Many people seem to have forgotten that a debate is about different opinions and its important that we  dont forget that. For example if I think Johnson didnt lie we can  have debate about it, no need to insult me and call me a racist or fascist or guess about my political motives. You can ask me any question and I will respond

Lets try to be better than the politicians we say are useless. Lets keep the art of debate alive and healthy and lets accept that we can agree to disagree

I enjoy your opinions even if I disagree with some of your views, thats why I asked you about BLM

And I wasnt being defensive with @Gorth, we have many debates and somethings we agree on and somethings we dont. Thats just how I debate 

I hope this makes sense and we can continue to have constructive debates 

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by BruceVC