Ukraine Conflict - Es ist nichts schrecklicher als eine tätige Unwissenheit

[Chilloutman]

43 minutes ago, pmp10 said:

It's not only about our housing (but that is an factor - if you thought it unaffordable just wait a year) but services.
For example waiting times for surgery in Poland can now be measured in years. 
Everything in our societies that was mediocrely handled (and conveniently swept under the rug by COIVD) from education, thru health-care to energy transition will now come under serious stress. 

Central Poland.

same can be apply to any other country tho

[pmp10]

14 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Most of the refugees obviously will go home and they want to go home  once its safe.

Pretty sure the refugees of Syria wanted the same.
It's too early to say that this will turn out to be a 3-month affair with relative peace afterwards. 

[BruceVC]

33 minutes ago, pmp10 said:

Pretty sure the refugees of Syria wanted the same.
It's too early to say that this will turn out to be a 3-month affair with relative peace afterwards. 

You right but their is a massive difference between the futures of the Syrian people and the Ukrainian people

The West  "pulled out " of supporting the Syrian people because Western intervention was vetoed by Russia and China when the Syrian civil war started in 2011. In other words the West will  fund and assist its own allies or if it is the cause of a conflict

Russia and Iran are now responsible to rebuild and fix the broken mess that is Syria, because they openly supported Assad,  and since neither of those countries has the resources, inclination or experience at rebuilding a failed state its unlikely Syria will ever become economically stable in the next 30 years or so 

The West is deeply connected to Ukraine for numerous reasons and its highly unlikely they will abandon the rebuild process once Putins War is over

I know its not ideal but we just have to be patient, most of the Ukrainian refugees will return home and they wont be an economic burden forever

[pmp10]

New US aid package signed, will include howitzers.
Slowly evolving the range of allowed weaponry. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by pmp10
Pointless argument.

[ShadySands]

40 minutes ago, pmp10 said:

New US aid package signed, will include howitzers.
Slowly evolving the range of allowed weaponry. 

Maybe a stupid question but where are we (the US) getting Russian helicopters from?

[Malcador]

10 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Maybe a stupid question but where are we (the US) getting Russian helicopters from?

Probably lots of places, they made a lot of them.  I think the US got some to equip the ANA with.  Wonder how effective they can be as gunships though.

[Sarex]

So Moskva official sank. Do wonder what did her in, another ammunition explosion or did they really hit it.

[Malcador]

1 minute ago, Sarex said:

So Moskva official sank. Do wonder what did her in, another ammunition explosion or did they really hit it.

Could be both, missile strikes lead to ammunition exploding and the ship being too damaged to make it back under tow.

[Zoraptor]

9 hours ago, Chilloutman said:

aren't S-300 supposed to be anti-missile as well? 

Well yes, but in this case actually no. The ones installed on most Russian ships still (and I'll admit, it's iirc) have a minimum altitude ceiling that prohibits being used against very low flying missiles like Neptune. Newer S-300+ based systems including half those on the Pyotr Veliky (and presumably later this year the Admiral Nakhimov) can target both very low flying and ballistic missiles, and have far better missile speed and range. For the low flying anti ship missiles protection is meant to be from the shorter range systems and point defence.

(S-300 covers a very long time and very large number of models, their capabilities vary massively)

8 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

From what I understood, now that the Mykolaiv is unreachable to Russia, the Black Sea Fleet is considered the only way how to start/stage the attack on Odessa, a city which is pretty high in the hierarchy of cities to defeat for Russian propaganda. And Moskva was also the primary defense system against attacks on supply ships in the area.

Yeah, nah. If I thought going down a single road to attack Kiev was stupid an amphibious assault against a city of 1mn plus would be... you'd need to invent a new word for it.

Taking Mykolaev and the land based route would be far easier and more practical.

7 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

Hmm. Shoigu has had a "massive heart attack", according to various not-too-dependable sources. Waiting for confirmation on this.

Now it's: arrested, sacked, planning a coup and arrested, massive heart attack, sacked, massive heart attack.

4 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

Unconfirmed, very recently in: apparently the Russian military has been attacked in some manner in Azerbaijan. Interesting to see how this one develops, if in any way at all.

That's the Azeris attacking Artsakh/ Armenia again, which happens all the time.

[rjshae]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Probably lots of places, they made a lot of them.  I think the US got some to equip the ANA with.  Wonder how effective they can be as gunships though.

The variants used by the Czech and Croatia military can fire anti-tank guided missiles and other armaments.

[ShadySands]

2 hours ago, Malcador said:

Probably lots of places, they made a lot of them.  I think the US got some to equip the ANA with.  Wonder how effective they can be as gunships though.

Yeah, the article said they were originally for the ANA. I was curious who we bought them from because I didn't think we could buy stuff directly from Rosoboronexport (though it's been years since I heard that) but then I remembered I'm on the internet and looked it up. 

[Mamoulian War]

7 hours ago, kanisatha said:

Here's great coverage about the Moskva:

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/04/meet-the-moskva-how-ukraine-nearly-sank-russias-black-sea-flagship/

 

6 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

Anyone reading that article might want to check the reader comments at the end of it. The character "Alex" appears to be a perfect example of a Russian troll. I think it's both fascinating and horrifying to consider that there are these troll factories in Russia, i.e. establishments whose only purpose is to spread misinformation and sow discord on social media. I agree it's a fairly clever plan, but the worldview it's built upon is one I'd never want to share. (Like, why spend your working hours doing something disruptive when you might as well work in the other direction?)

https://www.rferl.org/a/russian-troll-factory-hacking/31076160.html

PS. The ship appears not to have sunk, even according to Pentagon. Doesn't mean it's useful to anyone anymore, though. Also, apparently no more info on Shoigu's reputed heart attack.

 

1 hour ago, Sarex said:

So Moskva official sank. Do wonder what did her in, another ammunition explosion or did they really hit it.

 

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Could be both, missile strikes lead to ammunition exploding and the ship being too damaged to make it back under tow.

Answering to all of you at once this time

Yeah the ship sunk. It was confirmed by Russian RIA Novosti and TASS. The reason why it sunk in the end was, that after the explosions (my take would be it was really from Neptunes, because, when was the last time Russians told truth?), The Russian navy tried to save the ship by towing it to Crimea, (un)fortunately there was really ****ty weather on Black Sea, and the ship just sunk with all of the military equipment while being towed.

https://t.me/tass_agency/127473

Google translate:

The cruiser Moskva sank while being towed in a storm, the Russian Defense Ministry said.

[Mamoulian War]

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

Yeah, nah. If I thought going down a single road to attack Kiev was stupid an amphibious assault against a city of 1mn plus would be... you'd need to invent a new word for it.

Taking Mykolaev and the land based route would be far easier and more practical.

Well considering that the Russians also dug trenches in Red Forest, and got destroyed 15 times in a row at Kherson Airport, well, I think inventing some new words is already due,  and attacking Odessa by sea would be now just another jewel in the crown of stupid decisions already made by their commanders

[Gfted1]

This is now the second Russian ship to have a spontaneous fire, which caused ammo to cook off, which caused the complete loss of the vessel. Weird. 

[Mamoulian War]

A coincidence I say! Or as typical Russian troll would say, All must me properly investigated first to draw proper conclusion!

[Malcador]

Kiev getting hit again, I guess is follow though on threat to hit HQ from earlier ? No idea on targets, though

Edited April 15, 2022 by Malcador

[Agiel]

I guess the Norwegians got the last laugh when the Russian MFA threw shade at them for the loss of that Fridtjof Nansen frigate a while back.

[xzar_monty]

6 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

This is now the second Russian ship to have a spontaneous fire, which caused ammo to cook off, which caused the complete loss of the vessel. Weird. 

Future quiz question, therefore: What do Russian ships and Spinal Tap drummers have in common?

[xzar_monty]

8 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Now it's: arrested, sacked, planning a coup and arrested, massive heart attack, sacked, massive heart attack.

I know. Unlikely that all of it's true, shall we say.

An MD pointed out yesterday that two heart attacks in succession is not unheard of and would not be entirely surprising in these conditions. Obviously this is not proof of even one heart attack.

[BruceVC]

7 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

A coincidence I say! Or as typical Russian troll would say, All must me properly investigated first to draw proper conclusion!

The sinking of the Moskva represents  symbolically the entire Russian military campaign

Putins War has shown us the true nature  of the Russian army. The Russians are excellent at bombing cities to the ground from miles away using missiles and killing thousands of civilians , mass rape and executing   unarmed people 

But normal combat strategy  and adhering to the Geneva Convention they are terrible as they lack the training and discipline 

 

[BruceVC]

53 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Future quiz question, therefore: What do Russian ships and Spinal Tap drummers have in common?

Dont leave us hanging, do tell?

[xzar_monty]

36 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Dont leave us hanging, do tell?

The spontaneous combustion bit.

[Mamoulian War]

Around the Moskva, there are slowly emerging rumours, that it might have carried Nuclear Missiles. Anyone here with a good knowledge into naval military stuff, who can do some theorycrafting, how plausible this statement might be?

[xzar_monty]

Reactions in Russia don't appear too happy. By the way, it is really quite something to see stuff like this on television. No wonder the people are in a rage, if the quality of discussion has been like this for years and years already. So so sad.

 

 

[213374U]

I figure it's a matter of time now that a Polish airbase or Romanian depot will catch a cruise missile or two. And then the nukes can finally start flying. Luckily, I've read "reports" on twatter that Russian nukes don't actually work, so all will be well. Right guys?

...right?