Ukraine conflict - im Westen nichts Neues

[Gorth]

7 hours ago, ShadySands said:

Been trying to get in touch with family in Ukraine but no luck so far

All the best for your family Shady

Our own Ukrainian office has ceased operation and staff is being evacuated to Poland.

[pmp10]

8 hours ago, kanisatha said:

The Russians are going to be bogged down in an insurgency everywhere within the country except the Donbas, and amazing right now are being supported by only a handful of other countries with the overwhelming majority being against them.

[...]

If Putin gets away with his naked aggression in Ukraine, in the very near future we will see China invading Taiwan and Russia invading the Baltic states, and very likely simultaneously in coordination.

Sorry but you are effectively saying he will invade NATO while bogged down in Ukrainian insurgency.

I mean he might be crazy but there is still calculation behind his actions.
In fact, he seems to have estimated the western response pretty well.

Quote

Even if somehow Putin gets those "surrender" documents, nobody in the world will see them as legitimate and so they won't carry any weight in international law. So the physical implementation of any such agreements will still have to rely on the presence of significant Russian occupation forces long-term.

And if it's the same Ukrainian government that was ruling the country last week?
Do you then isolate Ukraine that will be insisting that they are now fine with 'demilitarization', recognition of Crimea/separatists republic and never joining NATO?
What if Russian troops retreat and there is no need to occupy anything because the new Ukraine will have changed enough to their liking?

Edited February 25, 2022 by pmp10

[Sarex]

7 hours ago, ComradeYellow said:

That's so 19th century.  Invade country -> winner forces loser to sign terms favorable to winner -> GTFO and forget it ever happened.

That would mean the least amount of victims and damage.

7 hours ago, kanisatha said:

And it's not gonna' happen that easily. Even if somehow Putin gets those "surrender" documents, nobody in the world will see them as legitimate and so they won't carry any weight in international law. So the physical implementation of any such agreements will still have to rely on the presence of significant Russian occupation forces long-term.

He doesn't need anyone else to recognize the agreement, he just needs Ukrainian's to follow it. They can do what the US did, plop a Bond Steel in east Ukraine and have a military presence there.

[Mamoulian War]

10 hours ago, pmp10 said:

Welp.
If that is going too far then I'm giving it 5 years until next episode set in Moldova. 

Now imagine reading something like that in 1939...

[Raithe]

 

[Mamoulian War]

And looks like the only people in the West who have some balls at the moment are computer nerds...

 

[Mamoulian War]

And this is how it looks when a small land in middle of the pacific ocean has bigger balls than the west...
 

 

[BruceVC]

18 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

And looks like the only people in the West who have some balls at the moment are computer nerds...

 

Mamie !!! Stop being a " commie loving subversive "

You mustnt support Putin, he is bad. He lied and we dont like people who are warmongers and who lie 

Besides we both know who the real enemy is....and the war against SJWism is much worse and  serious than anti-Western rhetoric 

[Mamoulian War]

12 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Mamie !!! Stop being a " commie loving subversive "

You mustnt support Putin, he is bad. He lied and we dont like people who are warmongers and who lie 

Besides we both know who the real enemy is....and the war against SJWism is much worse and  serious than anti-Western rhetoric 

How the **** did you come to the conclusion that I support that piece of ****... ???

[bugarup]

 

[pmp10]

39 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Mamie !!! Stop being a " commie loving subversive "

You mustnt support Putin, he is bad. He lied and we dont like people who are warmongers and who lie 

Besides we both know who the real enemy is....and the war against SJWism is much worse and  serious than anti-Western rhetoric 

You sir, are an insult to the art of trolling.

Back on topic - Ukrainian side is growing more and more desperate.
Handing out assault rifles, stopping men up to 65 from leaving the country, calling for Molotov ****tail defense of cities.
And with combat reported in Kiev finally this:

 

[Darkpriest]

This is a meme, but it is not so funny for Ukrainian men, who are now being separated from evacuating families. 

Men during the times of conflict are force drafted and they have nothing to say. 

A few of my friends have to stay - great people, quants and engineers

Edited February 25, 2022 by Darkpriest

[Elerond]

1 hour ago, Mamoulian War said:

Now imagine reading something like that in 1939...

That was what countries did in 1939, they tried to avoid become parties in the war, which is why Finland, Poland, Baltic states did get only promises of  help when they were invaded

[Azdeus]

31 minutes ago, bugarup said:

 

They were all killed, they knew what would happen, but still told them off. More guts amongst those border guards than the entirety of the ****ing EU.

"Who is ready to fight with us? Honestly, I see noone" - 4:05

[Darkpriest]

3 minutes ago, Azdeus said:

They were all killed, they knew what would happen, but still told them off. More guts amongst those border guards than the entirety of the ****ing EU.

"Who is ready to fight with us? Honestly, I see noone" - 4:05

Our western spcieties, especially generation of born afyer 1990 are too soft and to weak. They will post on social media how they suppprt this or that, but they will never compromise on their comfot to actually go and do something about it when the risks are real. It's easy to shout 'defund the police', 'toxic masculanity', etc. when there are no real threats, but this only make the societies weak, and determined societies like Russia and China will abuse that. 

I'm a bit older, I can live without a cell phone and internet, can grow some food and kill an animal, if needed. I'd probably have no issue with harming another human being and feel no remorse if the other human being would be threathening my family, but I have no condition to a prolonged fight, or I would now not be even able to check and use a gun properly. If someone would give me now an AK i would probably have hard time using it properly, or even reload it efficiently or unjam. 

Younger people, would die without a working mobile... 

[BruceVC]

12 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

Our western spcieties, especially generation of born afyer 1990 are too soft and to weak. They will post on social media how they suppprt this or that, but they will never compromise on their comfot to actually go and do something about it when the risks are real. It's easy to shout 'defund the police', 'toxic masculanity', etc. when there are no real threats, but this only make the societies weak, and determined societies like Russia and China will abuse that. 

I'm a bit older, I can live without a cell phone and internet, can grow some food and kill an animal, if needed. I'd probably have no issue with harming another human being and feel no remorse if the other human being would be threathening my family, but I have no condition to a prolonged fight, or I would now not be even able to check and use a gun properly. If someone would give me now an AK i would probably have hard time using it properly, or even reload it efficiently or unjam. 

Younger people, would die without a working mobile... 

But can you set snares and traps to kill animals ? Because if you want to  kill an animal how would you do it if you cant use a gun anymore ?

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Mamoulian War said:

How the **** did you come to the conclusion that I support that piece of ****... ???

Good to know, I was just checking 

[Chilloutman]

I kinda wish we were not in NATO so we can send our troops

Edited February 25, 2022 by Chilloutman

[kirottu]

13 hours ago, teknoman2 said:

There is only one thing that matters: we will finally get to play IRL Fallout if this escalates.

Finally Fallout Europe. Get it while it's hot.

[Darkpriest]

2 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

But can you set snares and traps to kill animals ? Because if you want to  kill an animal how would you do it if you cant use a gun anymore ?

I'm not sauing I'd be hunting, but would not have issue with killing a more domesticated animal like a chicken or a rabbit. 

[Zoraptor]

Looks like Ukraine never actually recaptured Hostomel airport.

20 minutes ago, Chilloutman said:

I kinda wish we were not in NATO so we can send our troops

You can send troops, NATO membership doesn't completely override foreign policy- they just wouldn't be covered by NATO Article 5 (ie 'collective defence').

The Russians knew they could bomb Turkish soldiers in Syria without danger from NATO for the same reason; they were combatants outside Turkey in the interests of Turkey and not in the service of the UN or NATO.

[Mamoulian War]

Lavrov in the interview said, they do not see current government of Ukraine as legitimate, and they will denazify it. So Russia is attacking a country in Europe with the goal to overthrow the legitimate democratic government... IF EU does not answer, it will be considered as an invitation letter for Russia to do whatever the **** they want in eastern europe... I do not believe ATM that NATO would ever invoke article 5, becuase "muh profits"...

[Azdeus]

1 hour ago, Darkpriest said:

Our western spcieties, especially generation of born afyer 1990 are too soft and to weak. They will post on social media how they suppprt this or that, but they will never compromise on their comfot to actually go and do something about it when the risks are real. It's easy to shout 'defund the police', 'toxic masculanity', etc. when there are no real threats, but this only make the societies weak, and determined societies like Russia and China will abuse that. 

I'm a bit older, I can live without a cell phone and internet, can grow some food and kill an animal, if needed. I'd probably have no issue with harming another human being and feel no remorse if the other human being would be threathening my family, but I have no condition to a prolonged fight, or I would now not be even able to check and use a gun properly. If someone would give me now an AK i would probably have hard time using it properly, or even reload it efficiently or unjam. 

Younger people, would die without a working mobile... 

I doubt there is a single politician with any say in the matter of actually aiding the Ukraine that is born after 1990, it's not the youth that is the problems it's the ****ing fogies in parliaments who can't get a rise out of their **** unless their stock portfolio is on the up. 

[Darkpriest]

17 minutes ago, Azdeus said:

I doubt there is a single politician with any say in the matter of actually aiding the Ukraine that is born after 1990, it's not the youth that is the problems it's the ****ing fogies in parliaments who can't get a rise out of their **** unless their stock portfolio is on the up. 

Do you imaagine announcing mobilization in Germany and having German youth go to fight in Ukraine with Russians? 

Do you really think the minority communities would now say, "yeah we are Germans and we will fight there." 

Do you see Swedish gov doing this amd society follow? 

Dane? 

Spanish? 

French? 

 

Which gov would hold and not have a domestic revolt when announcing full mobilization and sending people there? First pictures of killed people would cause a tremendous uproar and saying 'Let Russians have that! "

 

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Darkpriest

[Chilloutman]

All those countries have professional armies. If they didn't have problem fighting in Afghan they surely can go fight in Ukraine.