Coronavirus 666: This is one sick thread!!!

[rjshae]

Striking new evidence points to Wuhan seafood market as the pandemic's origin point

Quote

Over the weekend, an international team of scientists published two extensive papers online, offering the strongest evidence to date that the COVID-19 pandemic originated in animals at a market in Wuhan, China. Specifically, they conclude that the coronavirus most likely jumped from a caged wild animal into people at the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, where a huge COVID-19 outbreak began in December 2019.

This is not quite 100% conclusive, but I still find it compelling. Are we past the point of heavy political bias on this issue yet? Maybe after 2024 then.

[BruceVC]

10 hours ago, rjshae said:

Striking new evidence points to Wuhan seafood market as the pandemic's origin point

This is not quite 100% conclusive, but I still find it compelling. Are we past the point of heavy political bias on this issue yet? Maybe after 2024 then.

I have always believed it came from Wuhan and animals, that is where most of the other viruses came from so why not this one ?

[rjshae]

7 hours ago, BruceVC said:

I have always believed it came from Wuhan and animals, that is where most of the other viruses came from so why not this one ?

Yes that is the Occam's Razor response. The lab theory was most likely amplified by the right because it was an election year in the US. Unfortunately that made it difficult to gain the cooperation of the CCP for a more thorough investigation. I still think that more scientific research is needed in that area so we gain a better understanding of this virus. Finding a progenitor host could be invaluable.

[Raithe]

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/long-covid-even-mild-covid-linked-damage-brain-months-infection-rcna18959

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/07/covid-can-shrink-brain-and-damage-its-tissue-finds-research

 

[BruceVC]

I just got my Pfizer booster today, it will probably be my last booster while we see the variants being less deadly and the general pandemic being less an impact to our lives ? 

[BruceVC]

On 3/14/2022 at 11:00 AM, BruceVC said:

I just got my Pfizer booster today, it will probably be my last booster while we see the variants being less deadly and the general pandemic being less an impact to our lives ? 

I accidently turned off my wifi access on my phone today and some of my family were trying to find out how I was feeling after my jab. But they were all using WhatsApp and none of them thought to phone me so people thought I was dead because of a bad reaction to the vaccine 

Its funny how we become so use to SM as a type of communication and sometimes literally forget to just phone ....the " old fashioned way " 

[Gfted1]

My wife missed her booster appointment and said F-it on rescheduling. Now Im living with filthy heathen.

It funny how fast things returned to normal when they relaxed the mask mandate around here. I went to the gas station yesterday (and got robbed on 6 gallons!) and when I went inside gone were all the spit shields at the registers. And I was literally the only one in the place wearing a mask.

[Katphood]

I've had two doses of Sinopharm and haven't gotten sick ever since. Gotta get the third one in a month or so.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

18 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

My wife missed her booster appointment and said F-it on rescheduling. Now Im living with filthy heathen.

It funny how fast things returned to normal when they relaxed the mask mandate around here. I went to the gas station yesterday (and got robbed on 6 gallons!) and when I went inside gone were all the spit shields at the registers. And I was literally the only one in the place wearing a mask.

Just wait until the next variant hits.

[rjshae]

China's soaring COVID infections fuel concern about cost of containment

Quote

China posted a steep jump in daily COVID-19 infections on Tuesday, with new cases more than doubling from a day earlier to hit a two-year high, raising concerns about the rising economic costs of its tough measures to contain the disease. A total of 3,507 domestically transmitted cases with confirmed symptoms were reported on Monday across more than a dozen provinces and municipalities, up from 1,337 a day earlier, the National Health Commission said. Most of the new cases were in the northeastern province of Jilin.

Though China's caseload is still tiny by global standards, health experts said the increase in daily infections over the next few weeks would be key to determine whether its "dynamic zero-COVID" approach, of containing each outbreak quickly as it arises, remains effective against the rapidly spreading Omicron variant.

I wonder if the CCP is still welding sick people into their living quarters? Hopefully not.

[BruceVC]

13 minutes ago, rjshae said:

China's soaring COVID infections fuel concern about cost of containment

I wonder if the CCP is still welding sick people into their living quarters? Hopefully not.

Only the CCP would still try to achieve a "zero Corona " strategy....I wonder why they think they should try to achieve this ?

[Gfted1]

On 3/15/2022 at 9:54 AM, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

Just wait until the next variant hits.

COVID cases are again on the rise globally as testing, health measures decline | Ars Technica

That didnt take long!  On the bright side this should buy me more working from home time.

[Totally not Gorgon]

Were riiiight on the cusp of financial recovery and then there's another 'thing'. Fuking russia, or another strain, or some bloody thing.

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

COVID cases are again on the rise globally as testing, health measures decline | Ars Technica

That didnt take long!  On the bright side this should buy me more working from home time.

Now we going to hear " you MUST take  a vaccine " ..lucky I took mine on Monday so no pressure on me 

[Gfted1]

32 minutes ago, Totally not Gorgon said:

Were riiiight on the cusp of financial recovery and then there's another 'thing'. Fuking russia, or another strain, or some bloody thing.

I think this will be the "new normal" for the foreseeable future.

[Gromnir]

am knowing people hate history, but the spanish flu and the rocky road to recovery once years o' waves trailed off makes for useful reading in these times. anybody shocked by inflation didn't bother to follow the history o' post spanish flu economies. sadly, the mitigation efforts which were effective for combating the pandemic and its resulting economic pain in the early 20th, while chronicled and known, were nevertheless ignored or even derided by all too many 21st century pundits even as we near 1 million US dead and have so recent eclipsed 6 million worldwide covid deaths... which should all by itself reveal just how disproportionate poor the US has handled the pandemic. 

am s'posing a century, or even as little as a couple decades from today, when is another global pandemic, we will again stare blank at history, having learned nothing save that somehow democrats and/or republicans is to blame for it all... and that the government is using the situation as an excuse to take your guns and bibles.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Totally not Gorgon]

The main difference would be that Covid infected billions, not millions. Which should do something drastic to the time axis. That is, Covid should, hopefully move to a less dangerous much but more transmissive form much sooner. That's usually the winning strategy for the virus.  

[Totally not Gorgon]

Also an argument for not doing excessive lockdowns. The Chinese clearly miscalculated with Omicron. the vaccine wasn't good enough to solve the covid problem on its own, but, it can/could have been used to bolster natural immunity.

Vaccine protection from serious hospitalization, the factor that governs death rates the most,  goes down by a whopping 10% in a couple of months, so really, in that timeframe, you should be deliberately exposing yourself to the virus. 

 

[Gromnir]

30 minutes ago, Totally not Gorgon said:

The main difference would be that Covid infected billions, not millions. Which should do something drastic to the time axis. That is, Covid should, hopefully move to a less dangerous much but more transmissive form much sooner. That's usually the winning strategy for the virus.  

is also far more people today than in 1918. more human fuel to exhaust also changes the timeline. 

"excessive lockdowns" is kinda loading it eh? reasonable mitigation efforts may indeed include lockdowns. and china is a bad example w/o comparing to places such as new zealand which had a much different experience with omicron, which am suspecting you is already aware. the chinese vaccine is poor v. omicron and the oldest portion o' at least the hong kong population, where omicron has been particular deadly, is having poor vaccination rates, but is intellectual dishonest to take omicron insular. compare entire pandemic makes more sense, no? overall trend for those who utilized lockdowns judicious and were embracing vaccines and mitigation efforts reveals vast different body counts overall.

the thing is, lockdowns today is gonna be different than the past couple years. yeah, if transmissibility is extreme high and lethality is disproportionate low, then in a place such as the US where is functional impossible to get real widespread lockdowns anyways, such efforts is gonna be o' limited efficacy, which is why vaccines and n95s in indoor environments become more important. unfortunate, if you can't get vaccine rates much 'bove 2/3 o' the population and if southerners has declared they is over covid, then mitigation efforts kinda fail before they get started. 

am genuine wondering how many people have to die for a few individuals to change their mind 'bout covid. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Zoraptor]

1 hour ago, Totally not Gorgon said:

The main difference would be that Covid infected billions, not millions. Which should do something drastic to the time axis. That is, Covid should, hopefully move to a less dangerous much but more transmissive form much sooner. That's usually the winning strategy for the virus.  

'Spanish' Flu actually went back to 'normal' flu pretty quickly. Influenza is an extremely mutable virus- coronaviruses are highly mutable, but to nowhere near such an extent. To put it in perspective, Russian 'flu' (very likely a coronavirus now a component of the common cold, not influenza) lasted ~6 years in 4 waves, while Spanish Flu and other H1N1 pandemics lasted ~2 years (and Spanish Flu had 4 waves in those 2 years). So there may well be another 3+ years to go.

Spanish Flu also had a very different... method than covid as it killed a very large number of otherwise healthy young people (their immune system went into a positive feedback loop, irony being that those with weaker immune systems were protected from that). Plus it occurred directly after/ during WW1, so its economic etc effects were masked both by the effects of that conflict directly, and by the press being controlled.

Infecting billions makes a difference if it imparts permanent or long/ medium term immunity, but covid doesn't. Someone infected with OG covid has very little protection against infection from omicron (though will have retained some protection against serious infection)- and in the case of Spanish Flu being reinfected was for many a death sentence, per above. In Australia they're even getting reinfection across two different strains of omicron. You also are relying on the general rule that pathogens get more infectious but less lethal but for covid delta was both more infectious and more lethal than the preceeding viruses.

Not really worth worrying about though, it's endemic now and nothing can be done even if there were something that could be done.

[Gorth]

Our boss had been indisposed for more than a week now and did have to visit the hospital. A bad case of covid. He was fortunately vaccinated or we would be hiring now. He has underlying health conditions hence why it hit somewhat hard

[rjshae]

9 hours ago, Totally not Gorgon said:

The main difference would be that Covid infected billions, not millions. Which should do something drastic to the time axis. That is, Covid should, hopefully move to a less dangerous much but more transmissive form much sooner. That's usually the winning strategy for the virus.  

The issue I have with that idea is the members of the community most likely to transmit the virus are also the ones least likely to die from it. There's little evolutionary pressure for the virus to become less deadly. We're the ones who need to adapt to it.

[Totally not Gorgon]

16 hours ago, Gromnir said:

is also far more people today than in 1918. more human fuel to exhaust also changes the timeline. 

"excessive lockdowns" is kinda loading it eh? reasonable mitigation efforts may indeed include lockdowns. and china is a bad example w/o comparing to places such as new zealand which had a much different experience with omicron, which am suspecting you is already aware. the chinese vaccine is poor v. omicron and the oldest portion o' at least the hong kong population, where omicron has been particular deadly, is having poor vaccination rates, but is intellectual dishonest to take omicron insular. compare entire pandemic makes more sense, no? overall trend for those who utilized lockdowns judicious and were embracing vaccines and mitigation efforts reveals vast different body counts overall.

the thing is, lockdowns today is gonna be different than the past couple years. yeah, if transmissibility is extreme high and lethality is disproportionate low, then in a place such as the US where is functional impossible to get real widespread lockdowns anyways, such efforts is gonna be o' limited efficacy, which is why vaccines and n95s in indoor environments become more important. unfortunate, if you can't get vaccine rates much 'bove 2/3 o' the population and if southerners has declared they is over covid, then mitigation efforts kinda fail before they get started. 

am genuine wondering how many people have to die for a few individuals to change their mind 'bout covid. 

HA! Good Fun!

Lockdowns don't matter that much if mortality is very low. The only point of lockdowns is to spread out hospitalizations, they can't succeed in avoiding transmission long term. Not with Omicron anyway. So. If you have low mortality and even with very high hospitalization,. you should be swapping temporary vaccine induced immunity for much longer lasting natural immunity. You get new antibodies even without getting sick, although not as many, from just being exposed to the virus.  This only goes if you have very high vaccine rates and preferably a third shot as well for the majority of the population. It's super important to have *some* antibodies as opposed to none.  Which is why the largely ineffective vaccine is still an enormous life saver.

[rjshae]

1 hour ago, Totally not Gorgon said:

Lockdowns don't matter that much if mortality is very low. The only point of lockdowns is to spread out hospitalizations, they can't succeed in avoiding transmission long term. Not with Omicron anyway. So. If you have low mortality and even with very high hospitalization,. you should be swapping temporary vaccine induced immunity for much longer lasting natural immunity. You get new antibodies even without getting sick, although not as many, from just being exposed to the virus.  This only goes if you have very high vaccine rates and preferably a third shot as well for the majority of the population. It's super important to have *some* antibodies as opposed to none.  Which is why the largely ineffective vaccine is still an enormous life saver.

There's a few issues with this paragraph:

* There's no evidence (yet) that natural immunity is significantly longer lasting than innoculation.

* The mortality rate is a step function of hospitalization rate; past a certain point your mortality rate starts to climb.

* It has already been demonstrated that the antibody count decline within a few months; what you want instead is a faster physiological response to a new infection.

[Gromnir]

44 minutes ago, rjshae said:

There's a few issues with this paragraph:

* There's no evidence (yet) that natural immunity is significantly longer lasting than innoculation.

* The mortality rate is a step function of hospitalization rate; past a certain point your mortality rate starts to climb.

* It has already been demonstrated that the antibody count decline within a few months; what you want instead is a faster physiological response to a new infection.

some few individuals is gonna have legit natural immunity. however, one o' those neil degrasse tyson videos we linked has a for reals doctor (dr. paul offit) explaining why for covid, counting on natural immunity is a fool's errand. is 'bout ten minutes into the first video we linked. is worth re-watching the video as they do hit most o' the covid issues you hear repeated ad nauseum. if you ever hear somebody championing widespread natural immunity as a way to combat disease, you know they ain't having any real expertise.

am also saddened by the people who somehow think transmissibility and lethality are complete separate issues.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/01/13/1072902744/ers-are-overwhelmed-as-omicron-continues-to-flood-them-with-patients

*shrug*

the thing is in the US we got too many people who won't follow the lockdowns or mitigation protocols, period. given how the experts were comparing transmissibility o' omicron to measles, a lockdown where only 2/3 o' the US population could be counted on to follow guidelines were gonna be o' limited efficacy. that said, social distancing does work and while in the US is not possible to get the folks who is "done with covid," followers o' Q or just about anybody who voted for trump to wear masks or social distance, we can protect our vulnerable populations by kinda inverting the model. maybe ain't fair, but if you got lupus or are taking prednisone or are old with a heart condition, there is ways to limit the exposure o' such people to the ignorant and selfish 1/3 who insist that covid ain't real or believe the real solution is to get everybody infected.

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Gromnir