The All Things Political Topic - Those who do not move, do not notice their chains

[Gorth]

19 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

It was always a surprise to me in our early trips to Austria in  Seefeld from 1991-1997 where I met several East European girls mostly from Hungary and Bulgaria. I had a huge crush on  a beautiful Hungarian barlady who became a friend of mine and I use to see her when she wasnt working, she also seemed to like me and she told me that many EU countries, like Austria and Germany, look at down on her and she was treated like a second class citizen

Bear in mind, the in the 44 years preceding 1991, Hungary and Bulgaria were the enemy. A very existential threat. I grew up and spent my whole childhood and young years knowing my biggest enemies in this world were Poland, DDR (Deutsche Demokratische Republik aka "East Germany") and The USSR. Implacable foes that could not be reasoned with and not be bargained with, their only goal and reason d'etre was kill me and destroy my way of life. It takes a while to shrug off such deep seated resentment. Bogeymen have a tendency to take on a life of their own and get things attributed to them, that might not be based on anything real. Little surprise really, if people from Eastern Europe were met with resentment at best and outright hostility at worst in that time period. I'm sure nobody in Austria or Germany would have been surprised if your otherwise beautiful woman suddenly grew tentacles and yelled "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn". Heck, it was probably even expected.

[majestic]

11 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I'm sure nobody in Austria or Germany would have been surprised if your otherwise beautiful woman suddenly grew tentacles and yelled "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn". Heck, it was probably even expected.

To be honest, there's also this misconception that Austrians are unfriendly to foreigners because they're foreigners. Not always true, especially in the eastern parts of Austria. People are just unfriendly, period, and even when they're nice they're unfriendly. There's a joke that's going to lose a whole lot in translation, but I'll try.

A German accidentially walks over a piece of private property in Vienna. The owner yells at him: "Hey sh1thead, wanna get off my lawn? Hurry up or I'll punch you out." The German apologizes profusely for trespassing and the owner replies: "Yeah, don't sweat it, that's why I'm telling you off nicely." 

There's a Facebook group (called something like "Everyday Poetry") where people send in conversations they pick up on the streets or in shops, the best ones get published. Like:

Customer enters a flower shop and asks "Do you sell flowers?" 

The owner replies with: "Lady, we sure ain't selling sandwiches."

Well, you get the general idea, I guess. It's much funnier in the original language and when you're familiar with the culture.  

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Bear in mind, the in the 44 years preceding 1991, Hungary and Bulgaria were the enemy. A very existential threat. I grew up and spent my whole childhood and young years knowing my biggest enemies in this world were Poland, DDR (Deutsche Demokratische Republik aka "East Germany") and The USSR. Implacable foes that could not be reasoned with and not be bargained with, their only goal and reason d'etre was kill me and destroy my way of life. It takes a while to shrug off such deep seated resentment. Bogeymen have a tendency to take on a life of their own and get things attributed to them, that might not be based on anything real. Little surprise really, if people from Eastern Europe were met with resentment at best and outright hostility at worst in that time period. I'm sure nobody in Austria would have been surprised if your otherwise beautiful woman suddenly grew tentacles and yelled "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn". Heck, it was probably even expected.

Yes, you right. Well done for that obvious historical reason... I must have met her in 1995 and of course she use to live in a Communist country so yes some uncertainty would have been expected. But do Danish people date girls from Bulgaria and Hungary or not really ?

 

 

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, majestic said:

To be honest, there's also this misconception that Austrians are unfriendly to foreigners because they're foreigners. Not always true, especially in the eastern parts of Austria. People are just unfriendly, period, and even when they're nice they're unfriendly. There's a joke that's going to lose a whole lot in translation, but I'll try.

A German accidentially walks over a piece of private property in Vienna. The owner yells at him: "Hey sh1thead, wanna get off my lawn? Hurry up or I'll punch you out." The German apologizes profusely for trespassing and the owner replies: "Yeah, don't sweat it, that's why I'm telling you off nicely." 

There's a Facebook group (called something like "Everyday Poetry") where people send in conversations they pick up on the streets or in shops, the best ones get published. Like:

Customer enters a flower shop and asks "Do you sell flowers?" 

The owner replies with: "Lady, we sure ain't selling sandwiches."

Well, you get the general idea, I guess. It's much funnier in the original language and when you're familiar with the culture.  

Its funny you mentioned this joke because its well known that Germans\Austrians are not renowned for telling genuinely funny  jokes but I do know 2-3 German jokes that are hilarious to non-Germans

But not  every EU country is renowned for telling jokes and thats not a big deal. Your snow slopes, blueberry milkshakes and great venison and pigeon for dinner 

In Seefeld we always stayed in the same hotel, Hotel Vergeiner  https://www.hotelvergeiner.at/en

 

[Guard Dog]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:30 AM, Gromnir said:

 

keep in mind the considerable number o' times we has heard you claim a source said something which it most certainly did not, leading us to correct you. so you throwing out names o' publications sans links or quotes is less than convincing given your track record for suspect recollections. no doubt you will come back and tell us you misremembered or thought it were brookings instead o'... whatever.

 

 

 

 OK that is a fair criticism. My memory is not what it used to be and I probably rely on it too much when making such an argument. But when a published news source states a thing as being categorically so you can be reasonably sure that is is. Not saying that is the case here but just that news sources, while always biased, are seldom outright false. Real news sources. Not Newsmax or Mother Jones. 

Besides, if I remember correctly the criticism of CRT are reports as just that. Not that "CRT is this or that". Every idea has it's detractors. But, like I also said it's a tempest in a teapot because almost no one is actually teaching it in public schools. At least in the places that are the most afraid of it anyway. It's just another boogeyman to scare people into voting one way or another. 

All I was saying was IF the criticisms of it are accurate then teaching it would be, in my exact words, self defeating to the ends it wants to reach. And I really don't care if it's taught or not. It's just something to talk about on the internet. 

[Darkpriest]

Meanwhile in real world issues, seems the market (W.St.) is hell bound on testing Powell and his Dec 2018 playbook.

At the cost of retail investors and pensions... 

Not even a pause before tomorrows FED meeting

Edited January 24, 2022 by Darkpriest

[Guard Dog]

Raising interest rates is the right move and it should have been done a year ago.  Yes it will make credit more expensive. It will make debt a bigger burden on everyone, states and people alike. And t will slow down the economy. Which, actually, is kind of the point. It's the first step to dealing with inflation. It would be helpful if our governments would stop spending non-existent money. But that is like expecting a bad heroin addict to stop because you told them it's bad for them. 

[Hurlshort]

Heh, I was pondering DP's fascination with Zerohedge and came across this gem of an article: https://money.cnn.com/2014/09/25/investing/zero-hedge-wall-street-blog-finance/index.html

Not much has changed in 8 years.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

5 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

Heh, I was pondering DP's fascination with Zerohedge and came across this gem of an article: https://money.cnn.com/2014/09/25/investing/zero-hedge-wall-street-blog-finance/index.html

Not much has changed in 8 years.

Why would it? Conspiracy theories for financial dip****s packaged in XTREME 90's edgelordism seems like a fairly unique grift.

[BruceVC]

4 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

 OK that is a fair criticism. My memory is not what it used to be and I probably rely on it too much when making such an argument. But when a published news source states a thing as being categorically so you can be reasonably sure that is is. Not saying that is the case here but just that news sources, while always biased, are seldom outright false. Real news sources. Not Newsmax or Mother Jones. 

Besides, if I remember correctly the criticism of CRT are reports as just that. Not that "CRT is this or that". Every idea has it's detractors. But, like I also said it's a tempest in a teapot because almost no one is actually teaching it in public schools. At least in the places that are the most afraid of it anyway. It's just another boogeyman to scare people into voting one way or another. 

All I was saying was IF the criticisms of it are accurate then teaching it would be, in my exact words, self defeating to the ends it wants to reach. And I really don't care if it's taught or not. It's just something to talk about on the internet. 

GD I have some bad news for you but since you in a great relationship  you dont need to be as concerned as the rest of us

@Amentep @ShadySands@Gfted1@Hurlshot@rjshae  I also would like to know what you guys think about this

In Virginia the Republican candidate  Youngkin won by 11 points for several reasons but the one being he promised to reopen the schools in Virginia which have been closed for 9 months !!!  Did you ever imagine that public school in Virginia could be closed for so long and then this long delay leads to a Republican victory...

https://www.aol.com/news/virginia-youngkin-school-closures-new-jersey-223021118.html

https://news.yahoo.com/youngkin-signs-executive-orders-banning-011700205.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

@HurlshotI assume the public sector schools in California have been open, why do you think they cant do the same thing in Virginia 

The one good outcome from this, Youngkin is a reasonable, charismatic  and convincing  candidate. He is not a Trump sycophant and seems to reach out across the aisles and the more reasonable GOP candidates the better 

Edited January 24, 2022 by BruceVC

[Darkpriest]

3 hours ago, Hurlsnot said:

Heh, I was pondering DP's fascination with Zerohedge and came across this gem of an article: https://money.cnn.com/2014/09/25/investing/zero-hedge-wall-street-blog-finance/index.html

Not much has changed in 8 years.

If you read the article, you can guess why. 

Hint: it's worth reading various opinions and weed out bull**** and unbacked catastrophism, but you do occasionally have a chance to discover something, you might have had otherwise missed. 

In the data driven reality, you do not have room for 'feels' other than trying to quantify the wieght of the 'stupid' and 'zealous' and estimate the impact of the mob mentality leading sheeps to their cliff fall. And what else will potentially get dragged along, so you can appropriately hedge agaonst risk. 

 

But i guess, math is a 'racist' concept in some of the 'liberal' teachers minds (not yours of course) 

 

 

[Hurlshort]

Public schools are open in Virginia, just like in California.

[Amentep]

29 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

he promised to reopen the schools in Virginia which have been closed for 9 months !!!  Did you ever imagine that public school in Virginia could be closed for so long

Unless I misread the story, they weren't closed, they were on virtual learning.

[BruceVC]

40 minutes ago, Amentep said:

Unless I misread the story, they weren't closed, they were on virtual learning.

I wish that was a solution, what occurred from that idea  was problems with the teaching outcomes  and the kids werent coping. So the virtual learning idea isnt effective 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-non-republican-suburban-moms-reveal-why-they-voted-for-youngkin-over-mcauliffe

[BruceVC]

47 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

Public schools are open in Virginia, just like in California.

Please at least read the articles before commenting, the virtual learning was a failure which is why Democrat parents voted for the GOP. Doesnt it seem strange that you suddenly have a historically Democratic state becoming red 

[Zoraptor]

ISIS prison break in Syria is in its 5th day. May involve as many as 800 militants being freed, pretty much definitely 500. Of course they're being surreptitiously backed up by Turkey, as always, who drone struck the head of SDF Intelligence in the middle of things as a break from blowing up random Yezidis in Sinjar. Three years and pretty much nothing has been done about the prisoners except ignoring them and hoping the problem goes away- except, of course, western countries deciding people who grew up there and got radicalised there aren't actually their problem and should be foisted on impoverished countries like Syria, Iraq, Bangladesh and New Zealand via citizenship cancellations.

(Note: that Al Jazeera article is actually pretty rubbish in a number of aspects, as they have a very heavy pro Turkey slant as do most of the commentators- especially Charles Lister- they reference, but it is a bit more in depth than the far more dry BBC equivalent. It's pretty much impossible to suppress ISIS in the Badiya permanently because it's like a scaled down Afghanistan in pretty much every respect. So no outright mountains, but lots of very rough terrain, caves and any operation to try and force ISIS out would be too porous; they just relocate temporarily. The problem in SDF areas is similar in effect, but for opposite reasons. It's mostly dry, flat, wasteland. Sure, you can put checkpoints in but they'd just get driven around or use smuggler routes- and checkpoints also make lovely targets for suicide bombers and massively annoy the local populace who then can't go anywhere without being stopped. Drones are useless too, so long as they aren't stupid enough to drive in convoys, since there are enough legit users to hide among. Finally, of course, the reason why there are tensions between the Deir ez Zor arabs and SDF is that those arabs literally literally were ISIS 5 years ago, and only switched sides when it became clear ISIS would lose. And, allegedly, when bribed to by Saudi Arabia. But hey, Turkey hates the SDF so gotta talk about dissension in its ranks in the hope it's true; same as the thousandth uncorroborated report of Iranian and Russian backed forces fighting each other because they want that to be true too)

[Amentep]

2 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I wish that was a solution, what occurred from that idea  was problems with the teaching outcomes  and the kids werent coping. So the virtual learning idea isnt effective 

I didn't say anything about virtual learning, good or bad, I said from the articles Virginia schools weren't closed. 

Having school but not liking the modality is different from physically not having school.

[Hurlshort]

1 hour ago, Amentep said:

Unless I misread the story, they weren't closed, they were on virtual learning.

Just to explain the timeline, by March of 2020 most schools went virtual at the start of the pandemic. Then when the 2020/2021 school year started anew around August/September, many states stayed virtual. This required an entire re-imagining of the educational experience. Schools had to re-work schedules, material distribution, attendance, etc. Teachers had to figure out how to deliver a full year of instruction digitally to students they had never really met in person. 

Many schools were hoping to return to in-person halfway through the year. This require a lot of planning as well. A school year is like a transcontinental train, and making major course changes during the year is difficult. But we also had a big covid surge in December that stopped a number of the January plans to return. Some states went back anyways, some never even went virtual to begin with, and many ended up with a hybrid model around March of the 2021 year. 

With vaccines being widely available, it was looking good that the 2021/2022 school year would be back in person. So everyone had the summer to prep for that, and that is what the vast majority of schools across the country are doing right now, even with the omicron surge. Thank goodness, because I don't know a single educator who enjoyed the virtual experience. 

But tons of parents don't really get any of this, because they see schools as a baby sitting service for their kids. So they vote for the politician that promises they will get day care for their kids without having to worry about masks and critical thinking skills.

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, Hurlsnot said:

Just to explain the timeline, by March of 2020 most schools went virtual at the start of the pandemic. Then when the 2020/2021 school year started anew around August/September, many states stayed virtual. This required an entire re-imagining of the educational experience. Schools had to re-work schedules, material distribution, attendance, etc. Teachers had to figure out how to deliver a full year of instruction digitally to students they had never really met in person. 

Many schools were hoping to return to in-person halfway through the year. This require a lot of planning as well. A school year is like a transcontinental train, and making major course changes during the year is difficult. But we also had a big covid surge in December that stopped a number of the January plans to return. Some states went back anyways, some never even went virtual to begin with, and many ended up with a hybrid model around March of the 2021 year. 

With vaccines being widely available, it was looking good that the 2021/2022 school year would be back in person. So everyone had the summer to prep for that, and that is what the vast majority of schools across the country are doing right now, even with the omicron surge. Thank goodness, because I don't know a single educator who enjoyed the virtual experience. 

But tons of parents don't really get any of this, because they see schools as a baby sitting service for their kids. So they vote for the politician that promises they will get day care for their kids without having to worry about masks and critical thinking skills.

 I think Im not explaining this worrying development properly, I will try one more time. This is about a school that was closed for 9 months and the virtual learning wasnt working for many parents so these parents  desperate that their kids were not denied another 9 months made the difficult  decision to vote for Youngkin because he was committed to open school teaching 

My concern is not about the state flipping to red, Im sure it will flip back. My concern is about public sector schools in Virginia clearly failing to educate the kids properly according  to all the parents?

@Amentep I am trying to explain the issue to Hurlshot. Does it make sense to you?

[Gorth]

12 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

 I think Im not explaining this worrying development properly, I will try one more time. This is about a school that was closed for 9 months and the virtual learning wasnt working for many parents so these parents  desperate that their kids were not denied another 9 months made the difficult  decision to vote for Youngkin because he was committed to open school teaching 

My concern is not about the state flipping to red, Im sure it will flip back. My concern is about public sector schools in Virginia clearly failing to educate the kids properly according  to all the parents?

@Amentep I am trying to explain the issue to Hurlshot. Does it make sense to you?

The way Hurl explains it, the parents weren't really worried about their kids education, they were worried about being stuck with their offspring all day at home

 

Edit: Note the proper use of 'their'

[Gromnir]

10 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

 OK that is a fair criticism. My memory is not what it used to be and I probably rely on it too much when making such an argument. But when a published news source states a thing as being categorically so you can be reasonably sure that is is. Not saying that is the case here but just that news sources, while always biased, are seldom outright false. Real news sources. Not Newsmax or Mother Jones. 

 

am believing you don't realize the corner into which you painted yourself. 

the reason you were willing to believe the crt notions you repeated earlier is 'cause you read such from trusted news sources. were not cringey alt-right sources... though again, you included the nypost. you s'posed don't know and don't care 'bout crt *snort*, but you did voice opinion that IF crt is being taught as described in your trusted news sources, then is a bad thing. 

well, the thing is, the only source we bothered to check, 'cause is the only one we could speak to as being reputable, were brookings, and the first article we found on crt from brookings described crt in language opposite o' how you described. so, given your observation 'bout trusted sources, and recognizing you claimed brookings as such a source, then it would lead us to believe that you should have a much different pov regarding crt. at best you got a conflict 'tween brookings and perhaps the ny post, yes? am not seeing how such is a quandary, but perhaps the differing opinions leave you ambivalent? the thing is, ambivalent was not the hurdle you were facing in previous posts regarding crt. IF crt were being taught as follows:

"I do not think that history should be over dramatized and I definitely do NOT think anyone alive today owes anyone else an apology for deeds done by people long dead. Nor do I think it's healthy to tell people they are victims and it's all stacked against them."

and recognizing your info were gleaned from trusted sources...

but again, your syllogism fails 'cause one o' your own trusted sources describes crt opposite o' your claims o' information gleaned from trusted sources.

am not sure how many times we need do this dance.  you read or hear something somewhere and it aligns with your they are all bad madness or general notions o' government badness. is where your investigation and introspection ends. fine. is your thing and am doubting is any chance to change you. unfortunate, you then try and add credibility into your beliefs by citing sources which don't actual align with your opinions or referencing quotes which fail to support your conclusions. observe this same situation repeats itself a few times and one would expect a change in behavior even from a skinner box rodent but not gd. 

additional, lord knows why you would be against grad students being taught crt even if you believe crt is wrong. is kinda impossible to effective discuss and criticize crt w/o at least a working knowledge o' the theory. consider how many fringe theories do you personal embrace? imagine if they were all verboten in university. furthermore, seeing as how they is trying to keep you from learning crt, gd should be almost reflexive MadDog in favour o' teaching crt if he were being intellectual consistent with his lunacy. any effort by they or them to proscribe topics o' learning is most assured not libertarian.

HA! Good Fun!

[Darkpriest]

What an asset this POTUS. 

He's been delivering ammo for his opponents almost as good as the previous one. Two gaffes in a short time. One about Ukraine (minor incursion thing) and now about Inflation. (hot mic) 

 

@Hurlshot - as for 'conspiracy' sometimes being not that much of a conspiracy:

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-bombed-key-dam-syria-lied-about-it-called-anyone-who-reported-truth-crazy

 

 

[Gromnir]

biden gaffes, while kinda anticipated and unfortunate if utter banal, has represented a welcome relief, which shows just how chaotic were the previous few years. am able to go days w/o looking at the news and am nevertheless confident biden will not have attempted a coup or tried to force a government agency or official to do something illegal. would prefer not to have gaffes from the President o' the US, but the fact such is the most significant news regarding POTUS is a welcome respite. 

that said, the ukraine blunder were indeed newsworthy. shoulda' been complete unnecessary to walk that one back, but this most recent biden hot mic click bait don't even rise to staring at an eclipse w/o eye protection kinda stoopid.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Gorth]

On 1/24/2022 at 8:55 PM, BruceVC said:

How do you compare Russia with USA overall? I appreciate how much details you shared about the US but I dont know how you feel about Russia compared to USA.

Not sure what you mean by "overall"? Military strength? Other, wiser heads knows more about hardware specs and capabilities than I do.

Politically? I think Trump weakened the US so much during his 4 years, that the rest of the world might actually (erroneously and possibly to their own regret) disregard the US as a player in international politics these days. Russia never really had a tradition for being an "extrovert". Their interests (and manipulations) are usually in countries bordering Russia (and previously the USSR). Most of their military doctrine in the past for projecting power was throw ICBM's at it. Then throw more at it. Then add MIRV's to the ICBM's and trow even more at it. Eventually the target breaks. They didn't have specialized units for operating outside their (and their "vassal countries") borders. Afghanistan was a good example of how disastrous it ended up when they tried to deploy troops outside their comfort zone. Putin changed that however. Cutting down on the millions strong conscript army of pedestrians led by corrupt, incompetent polit bureau members. The Russian units deployed in Syria, Libya, CAR etc. *seems* to be at least on par with their western counter parts and they have had a lot of practice the last 10 years in operating outside Russia proper's borders. The doctrine seems to favour lesser numbers of higher quality compared to say 20-25 years ago.

Mentally? I think the west tends to forget that Russia has throughout the last 500 years been surrounded by enemies wanting to partition it. Poland would know what it feels like, being surrounded by Sweden, Germany and Russia. Russia is used to western powers invading them in significant numbers whether they be Sweden, France, Germany (twice), The British etc. The point being, the constant encroaching by NATO has reached a point, where Ukraine is the trigger because it's too close to Moscow and industrial centers geographically. If Biden really wants war, inviting Ukraine into NATO is the 100% guarantee that he will get what he wants in that regard. Remember, the west has shown a blatant disregard for international law the last 20 years, chopping up sovereign countries like Serbia when it was expedient to do so (yet, crying wolf if the people of Crimea dare to invoke democracy), applauding Ukraine's invasion and occupation of Crimea at the same time etc. No reason whatsoever for Russia to trust anything said by western leaders. Too much hypocrisy. Hence why negotiations have to take place from a perceived position of strength. i.e. what is the purpose of putting 100000 man on a border if you don't also have the logistics in place to deploy them anywhere other than where they sit on their butts right now? Not to mention, what a surprise it would be if they attacked. Show me a general that would show an enemy his entire hand rather than benefit from a surprise. It's more than anything a warning to the west, hands off or else. I mentioned once in the past, it's the Cuba crisis in reverse. Ukraine is too close for Russian comfort to tolerate NATO troops and it will be seen as a declaration of war as certain as the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour in 1941.

Economically? We're talking about a people where most of them lived as serfs up until 1917, eating grass and roots while being abused and mistreated by nobility. About a century or two longer than most other countries. Starvation and hardship is almost a source a national pride. Sanctions wont work. It will just force Russia, Turkey, China and possibly India to closer cooperation and harden any resentment towards western countries, adding decades to any chance of a normalization of relations

[majestic]

32 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Remember, the west has shown a blatant disregard for international law the last 20 years,

We always break our word, this what we do!

Edited January 25, 2022 by majestic