The All Things Political Topic - All people love themselves too much to be changed by something as simple as love.

[teknoman2]

9 hours ago, Raithe said:

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/anti-lockdown-riots-in-europe-making-remainer-feel-a-right-****-20211122214546

 

 

i feel like we are in V for Vendetta. politicians are using covid as an excuse to gauge how far they can push authoritarianism before the people start pushing back... and now that people are starting to push back, the media has joined in to defend the governments by shaming the people for pushing back.

in my country alone, there are at least 6 (that i'm aware of) constitutional rights that have been suspended indefinitely for "public health reasons" and most people fear that even when the whole thing ends, the rights will remain suspended... and not a single question by anyone in the media about them to anyone from any political party. they all seem to pretend these rights never existed.

Edited November 24, 2021 by teknoman2

[Gorth]

Since January 6th was such a memorable event (for all the wrong reasons)...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-24/proud-boys-oath-keepers-subpoena-us-capitol-riot-january-6/100645708

"A committee investigating the deadly US Capitol riot has issued five subpoenas to far-right extremist groups that have backed former president Donald Trump and to individuals associated with those groups

The Select Committee is seeking testimony from the Proud Boys and its chairman, Henry "Enrique" Tarrio, alongside the Oath Keepers and its president, Elmer Stewart Rhodes.

The committee has also subpoenaed Robert Patrick Lewis, the chairman of 1st Amendment Praetorian, a lower-profile organisation known for wearing black shirts and providing security at pro-Trump events."

...

In short, Trumps goon squad seems to be dis-proportionally represented amongst those arrested.

...

"The Proud Boys have been named by United States security agencies as playing a pivotal role in the January attack on the US Capitol, and at least 34 individuals associated with the group have been indicted over it."

 

Speaking of far right groups... I seem to remember one or more people on this forum linking to intelligence assessments, that they're the greatest risk when it comes to domestic terrorism

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59355019

A US jury has awarded millions in damages against the organisers of a deadly far-right rally in August 2017.

The defendants were found liable in four out of six counts over the bloodshed at the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Nine of those injured sued the event's organisers arguing they had conspired to commit racially motivated violence.

A woman was killed and dozens were hurt after an avowed neo-Nazi drove a car into counter-protesters.

The total damages awarded amount to $25m (£19m), according to US media.

 

Now this is more likely to qualify as a hate crime... some people should take note?

 

[rjshae]

Politics keeps leaking into the humor thread, alas. 

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, rjshae said:

Politics keeps leaking into the humor thread, alas. 

For those confused about what rjshae is talking about, I moved a number of posts from the funny thread to the politics thread, including this observation which i agreed with....

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Gorth said:

For those confused about what rjshae is talking about, I moved a number of posts from the funny thread to the politics thread, including this observation which i agreed with....

I was confused, thanks for clarifying because I dont think politics is a joke. It defines how all our countries are run

[rjshae]

9 hours ago, Gorth said:

For those confused about what rjshae is talking about, I moved a number of posts from the funny thread to the politics thread, including this observation which i agreed with....

Well I'm glad you explained that because for a second I thought I'd done an old fart thing and posted the comment to the wrong thread. Now that would have been embarrassing.  Not that I'm not an old fart.

[Gfted1]

Father and son guilty of murder in Ahmaud Arbery's killing.

[Malcador]

3 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Father and son guilty of murder in Ahmaud Arbery's killing.

Happy day.

[Gfted1]

Yeah, thankfully they got this one right. Their actions were utterly indefensible. Im curious if any of those charges reflect a "hate crime" conviction? It sounds like "malice murder" is higher/different than "felony murder".

*casts summon: @Gromnir*

[Amentep]

16 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Yeah, thankfully they got this one right. Their actions were utterly indefensible. Im curious if any of those charges reflect a "hate crime" conviction? It sounds like "malice murder" is higher/different than "felony murder".

*casts summon: @Gromnir*

Georgia didn't have a hate crime statute on the books when the men were charged.  They were, IIRC, charged in May and the Hate Crime law was signed in June 21.

Difference between Malice Murder and Felony Murder is explained by a local station: https://www.11alive.com/article/news/crime/ahmaud-arbery/malice-murder-felony-murder-difference-ahmaud-arbery-death-trial/85-d13db692-cff9-4b4d-be73-5eba5ae22054

[Gorth]

Apropos hate crimes... I mentioned previously neo nazi and alt right groups being behind the violent riots, protesting anti covid measures (being anti vax, anti lockdown etc.)

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2021/11/24/neo-nazi-terror-groups-crackdown/

Looks like, albeit somewhat late, even members of the governing liberal party is a bit fed up with them.

A violent neo-Nazi paramilitary group that advocates terror attacks to provoke a civil war has been outlawed in Australia, amid a wider national crackdown on extremist groups.

Federal Home Affairs Minister Karen Andrews expressed concern about The Base, an American hate group that has planned violent racist assassinations and poison water supplies, as it forges links with local right-wing extremist groups.

It’s just the second right-wing extremist organisation designated by the federal government as a terror entity.

...

It comes as Australian counter-terror and intelligence bodies warn of an increasing level of far-right activity domestically.

Director-general of the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation, Mike Burgess, said right-wing extremism made up 40 per cent of the spy agency’s workload.

...

But...

‘Not a timely response’

The ABC reported in 2020 The Base was trying to recruit Australians to its cause.

“The Base do have a presence in Australia, so the question is why hasn’t this listing been done before?” Dr Kristy Campion, a lecturer in terrorism studies at Charles Sturt University, told TND.

“It’s obviously very welcome but this is a group that’s been around since 2018 … it’s not a timely response, but it’s welcome.”

...

Jihadist threats are still there too of course

“The jihadist threat hasn’t disappeared, but authorities are doing their best to manage a fast-changing threat scape. These groups tend to fragment, fall apart, get back together with a new name and clubhouse. They’re a moving target, so it’s affirming to see action.”

Mr West said right-wing terror was now the “dominant” threat in the US, and welcomed Australian authorities taking further action.

 

[Gromnir]

am not a fan o' hate crime enhancements, but we were an admitted near lone voice in the wilderness on this one even back in the 90s when the current scheme went into effect. 49 states sent briefs in support o' wisconsin when the case o' wisconsin v. mitchell 508 U.S. 476 (1993) were before the Court. J. Rhenquist, a guy who woulda' had trump declaring Alito a RINO if he were still around to act as a kinda conservative yardstick to be measured 'gainst, delivered a unanimous opinion. to say hate crimes enhancements had overwhelming public and scholarly support would be understatement. 

if you kill somebody, am thinking we put you in prison or execute you for the murder and not 'cause o' your expressed viewpoint on gender, race or whatnot. am not indulging a slippery slope kinda argument, but is one o' those unnecessary grey areas. particularly nowadays when we got so much division regarding foundational notions o' bigotry and racism, enhancements based on the expressed viewpoint o' the criminalized has the potential for abuse, and such enhancements should be largely unnecessary save that strict sentencing guidelines has taken from judges some o' their flexibility in punishing particular vile nogoodniks... and fact judges like the one in the rittenhouse case exist. didn't check, but am suspecting the rittenhouse judge were elected as 'posed to appointed. would explain a few things.

and look, am getting it. try and pretend as if ordinary criminal trespass and property vandalism carries the same threat as does burning a cross on the front lawn o' a black family is delusional. however, the Court mere a year previous to wisconsin v. mitchell, struck down a law which made hate related actions in st. paul minnesota illegal. the Rhenquist opinion is arguable sound but nevertheless indulging in a bit o' the svengali approach to logic and reason if a short time previous you did rail 'gainst the viewpoint discrimination o' a law which punishes bad thinkers, but is ok to add enhancements for punishments 'cause o' same bad thoughts held by a defendant. in rav, the Court took the opportunity to speak in big terms 'bout fairness and the sanctity o' the First Amendment-- were impressive soap box material and very quotable. wisconsin v. mitchell is not quotable. J. Rhenquist in mitchell does everything possible to make us recognize that enhancements is not 'bout First Amendment even if the state is punishing a person to a greater extent specific 'cause o' their expressed viewpoint, but he used arcane precedent and procedural arguments as 'posed to talk o' fairness and right.

regardless, gonna note conservatives were very much supportive o' hate crime enhancements in the 90s, jic some folks wanna rail 'bout the injustice o' such. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Amentep]

 

[Gromnir]

agree with point 1. didn't even know 'bout point 2, 3, 4, or 8... shows how little we followed the trial.  #5 complaint were... odd. picking outta a tumbler were peculiar but didn't strike us unfair. looked bad for a public trial as it were indeed unusual and were gonna draw criticism for the theatrics, so why do it? not a huge concern though. gonna suggest #6 is not properly analyzed in the video as typical the judge woulda' allowed a bit o' time to fix the handicap o' the evidence given the ad hoc nature o' his ruling. sure, if this were a known defect before trial 'cause the judge or some clear rule o' evidence prohibited such video, then burden would be on the prosecution to present proper evidence at trial. ain't what happened. judge declares previously admissible evidence functional inadmissible 'cause o' some technical foible? unless time to fix error were prohibitive, then prosecution shoulda' had an opportunity to cure the previous unknown defect. #7 was a problem for us. big problem actually. was not just "sloppy." were particular egregious as the judge seemed complete aware the defense witness were military as he specific referenced the guy before he asked for applause. video narrator undersells this one by a fair bit. were genuine jaw dropping kinda "sloppy."

'course missing is the other big issue we had: the aforementioned ruling on the weapon in rittenhouses' possession. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Gromnir

[Malcador]

Not really buying the defendant is "empowered" by picking the numbers.  Also anyone describing anyone as "based", deserves to be shot in the face.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Malcador

[Gfted1]

Supreme Court set to take up all-or-nothing abortion fight.

[HoonDing]

 

[rjshae]

Despite voter-approved anti-gerrymandering reforms, Ohio GOP still draws lopsided map

Quote

 

Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine, a Republican, has signed into law a congressional map that creates 15 new districts in the state, but anti-gerrymandering advocates are slamming the map saying it was drawn to keep a Republican stronghold in Ohio.

The plan has 12 seats that either heavily favor or lean in favor of Republicans. That's 80% of the districts in a state that voted for former President Donald Trump with 53% of the vote in 2020.

 

Looks like the Republicans have won the "steal the vote" battle by thoroughly stealing the vote. Heh. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Bartimaeus]

  

Spoiler alert:

Spoiler

It was the shooter.

[Malcador]

Shame the cops took him alive.

[Gfted1]

We should put automatic blast doors and gunshot detecting systems in every school. After a shot is detected, all doors in the immediate area slam shut and lock, and then pump the hallway full of pepper spray.

[Malcador]

1 minute ago, Gfted1 said:

We should put automatic blast doors and gunshot detecting systems in every school. After a shot is detected, all doors in the immediate area slam shut and lock, and then pump the hallway full of pepper spray.

Until the shooter wears a gas mask, chooses a time when the hallways are full.

[Gfted1]

Well theres still a few kinks to work out.

[Hurlshort]

Also all teachers should be trained in the art of kendo and have a bamboo sword in the classroom to handle disturbances. 

[Malcador]

Just give the teachers a sawed off, in that case.  That'll settle the kids down right quick