What you've done today - There will be no dawn for Men

[Bartimaeus]

7 hours ago, majestic said:

Figures. Sigh. That's... what?

Okay then, I just googled that, and what the hell, Lord of the Ring script?

I assume the distinction is the race of men - as opposed to elves, dwarves, etc. A little odd that they're not just called "humans", now that I think about it. Perhaps in order to suggest that the other races weren't inhuman?

Edited July 13, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Gromnir]

4 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I assume the distinction is the race of men - as opposed to elves, dwarves, etc. A little odd that they're not just called "humans", now that I think about it. Perhaps in order to suggest that the other races weren't inhuman?

is our recollection from old days o' university that tolkien were using man 'stead o' human 'cause he were english, and not french. human is from french by way o' latin. man sounds like a shortened form o' human, but isn't. man is actual distinct and comes from old english. tolkien were creating an english mythology, so...

HA! Good Fun!

[Azdeus]

10 hours ago, WDeranged said:

My car died the permanent kind of death last week so I'm stranded for a while.  Got a new amp to play with so it's been a day of music.

What happened?

[majestic]

7 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I assume the distinction is the race of men - as opposed to elves, dwarves, etc. A little odd that they're not just called "humans", now that I think about it. Perhaps in order to suggest that the other races weren't inhuman?

Indeed that's the case, as Gromnir noted. Still seems strange to use the plural form of Man for anything. Strange that it even has a plural, but I can't really argue with dictionaries - or with Tolkien, who probably knew English better than any of us.  

Mea culpa, as it were.

That is assuming Man and Men can't be used interchangeably and we're looking at actual plurals, not a case of weird English spelling, although I have no idea how you can look at a word for the entirety of all human beings and put that into a plural form, but since when does logic factor into English spelling? Hmm.

[Gorth]

14 minutes ago, majestic said:

Indeed that's the case, as Gromnir noted. Still seems strange to use the plural form of Man for anything. Strange that it even has a plural, but I can't really argue with dictionaries - or with Tolkien, who probably knew English better than any of us.  

Mea culpa, as it were.

That is assuming Man and Men can't be used interchangeably and we're looking at actual plurals, not a case of weird English spelling, although I have no idea how you can look at a word for the entirety of all human beings and put that into a plural form, but since when does logic factor into English spelling? Hmm.

From some dictionary on the internet (so... take with a grain of salt)

Old English man(n), (plural) menn (noun), mannian (verb), of Germanic origin; related to Dutch man, German Mann, and Sanskrit manu ‘mankind’.

 

You could argue that the correct spelling aught to be Menn but who knows. I didn't spend several decades studying Old English and linguistics in general, like a certain Author

 

Edit: Ah what the heck, bring in the Wiki!

 

The term man (from Proto-Germanic *mann- "person") and words derived from it can designate any or even all of the human race regardless of their sex or age. In traditional usage, man (without an article) itself refers to the species or to humanity (mankind) as a whole.

The Germanic word developed into Old English mann. In Old English, the word still primarily meant "person" or "human," and was used for men, women, and children alike.[1][2] The sense "adult male" was very rare, at least in the written language. That meaning is not recorded at all until about the year 1000, over a hundred years after the writings of Alfred the Great and perhaps nearly three centuries after Beowulf.[3] Instead, the usual Old English word for an adult male was wer, which survives today only in the compound "werewolf" (from Old English werwulf, literally "man-wolf").

Adopting the term for humans in general to refer to men is a common development of Romance and Germanic languages, but is not found in most other European languages (Slavic čelověkъ vs. mǫžь, Greek ἄνθρωπος vs. άνδρας, Finnish ihminen vs. mies etc.).

 

Edit2: Wer and Wif as Man and Woman. Anyone suspect the etymology of the word Wife here?

[Gfted1]

Heh, thats one of the things I like about this forum, that a single comment can spin off a whole nother conversation.  

[Malcador]

13 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Perhaps in order to suggest that the other races weren't inhuman?

Or Subhuman.  Ergo Tolkein was Nazi. Checkmate.

[Amentep]

6 hours ago, Gorth said:

Edit2: Wer and Wif as Man and Woman. Anyone suspect the etymology of the word Wife here?

Funnily enough, the actual etymology for wife is apparently a lot harder to nail down.

[ShadySands]

Spent a good hour discussing what we'd do if our house were haunted. My wife thinks it would depend on exactly how haunted the house is but I'm firmly in the "any amount of haunt is too much haunting" camp. I also choose to believe that evil is flammable so I'll burn down the house as I nope out of there.

[Amentep]

15 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Spent a good hour discussing what we'd do if our house were haunted. My wife thinks it would depend on exactly how haunted the house is but I'm firmly in the "any amount of haunt is too much haunting" camp. I also choose to believe that evil is flammable so I'll burn down the house as I nope out of there.

What if the ghost was of an introverted person with OCD and they spent their time trying to not be noticed while they organized your pantry?

[ShadySands]

29 minutes ago, Amentep said:

What if the ghost was of an introverted person with OCD and they spent their time trying to not be noticed while they organized your pantry?

[BruceVC]

38 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Spent a good hour discussing what we'd do if our house were haunted. My wife thinks it would depend on exactly how haunted the house is but I'm firmly in the "any amount of haunt is too much haunting" camp. I also choose to believe that evil is flammable so I'll burn down the house as I nope out of there.

Well instead of burning the house down,  what about your loan and money you may have invested,  you can also arrange a cleansing ceremony or similar practice that allows restless spirits to move on. Because end of the day most hauntings are about that, a spirit that doesnt know its dead or died in a traumatic way and needs help to move on. Once the spirit is gone the house will be fine to live in

http://www.spiritualcoach.com/spiritual-house-cleansing/

https://news.remax.com/is-your-house-haunted-a-medium-shares-how-to-rid-a-home-of-ghosts

[Gfted1]

Hilariously my wife and I have had the same discussion, but we are like minded. If anything moves the furniture, or tells us to "get out", the rally point is on the front sidewalk.

[BruceVC]

34 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Hilariously my wife and I have had the same discussion, but we are like minded. If anything moves the furniture, or tells us to "get out", the rally point is on the front sidewalk.

I refuse to accept a man of your prodigious DIY skills would be scared of a simple spirit....you one of those people who could make some sort of " spirit trapping " box and take on that apparition  

[Guard Dog]

3 hours ago, ShadySands said:

Spent a good hour discussing what we'd do if our house were haunted. My wife thinks it would depend on exactly how haunted the house is but I'm firmly in the "any amount of haunt is too much haunting" camp. I also choose to believe that evil is flammable so I'll burn down the house as I nope out of there.

That might work on spiders but not so sure about ghosts LOL

[Malcador]

They can't haunt the house, if there is no house.

[Amentep]

They could haunt the land the house stood on.

Or worse, it could free them to travel wherever they like!

[LadyCrimson]

I don't believe in ghosts, therefore I will always attribute weird things to non-haunting causes - "darn neighbors, darn dogs, this house sure has weird acoustics" - and go back to staring at the internet, likely frustrating any ghosts into boredom/retirement.

It's worked so far.

[Azdeus]

I'm living in a house were the foundations were laid in the 18th century. I have yet to experience any credible evidence of anything supernatural.

Except the craftmanship of the people that built the house that is, it's kind of amazing. If you discount that the house is not built for someone that is even close to over 170cms height.

[Gorth]

8 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Once the spirit is gone the house will be fine to live in

Phew, sounds good, I was worried there for a moment

 

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, Gorth said:

Phew, sounds good, I was worried there for a moment

 

It sounds like people on this forum dont believe in the possibility  of ghosts, hauntings or spirits trapped in this earth?

Gorthfuscious have you ever watched shows like Ghost Hunters and Holzer Files? Personally I have never encountered or experienced anything supernatural so I cant say its true or not true   but these shows are dedicated to constant filming of supernatural developments so can anyone say with conviction its not true and dismiss it ?

https://www.officialghosthunters.com/

https://www.travelchannel.com/shows/holzer-files

[Gorth]

13 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Gorthfuscious have you ever watched shows like Ghost Hunters and Holzer Files? Personally I have never encountered or experienced anything supernatural so I cant say its true or not true   but these shows are dedicated to constant filming of supernatural developments so can anyone say with conviction its not true and dismiss it ?

I saw an episode once of something I suspect would have been a "ghost hunter" kind of show. It was cringe worthy. People running around with shaky-cams trying to recreate the Blair Witch Project atmosphere, using narrators with ominous voices and jarring background music to create a sense of drama where none was.

Vampire Bloodlines: The Masquerade made a much better job of creating a creepy atmosphere. Anyone remember that quest?

Edit: Not the haunted house (best quest ever), but the ghost hunters setting up shop in an old decrepit building, preparing to shoot an episode...

 

I'm an agnostic in this regard too. I don't believe the ratings dependent TV shows for a second, but wont rule out either that there may be things we can't see in spectrum human sensory organs can perceive. I feel the same way about religion. Don't believe the word coming out of the mouth of a priest (any religion) for a second, but that doesn't mean The Big Bang is an all encompassing theory.

[LadyCrimson]

I don't believe in souls, afterlife/reincarnation,  etc, so no, I don't believe in paranormal.  That's just my choice tho. People believe what makes them feel most comfortable within their own headspace. Heck, for we all we know, one's belief and desire is what somehow cosmically dictates what one will encounter upon death.  And thus my mom will be waiting thru eternity for me to show up. Sorry, mom.

Edit: for some reason this makes me think of Firefly/Serenity and "I'm a leaf on the wind."

Edited July 14, 2021 by LadyCrimson

[BruceVC]

37 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I saw an episode once of something I suspect would have been a "ghost hunter" kind of show. It was cringe worthy. People running around with shaky-cams trying to recreate the Blair Witch Project atmosphere, using narrators with ominous voices and jarring background music to create a sense of drama where none was.

Vampire Bloodlines: The Masquerade made a much better job of creating a creepy atmosphere. Anyone remember that quest?

Edit: Not the haunted house (best quest ever), but the ghost hunters setting up shop in an old decrepit building, preparing to shoot an episode...

 

I'm an agnostic in this regard too. I don't believe the ratings dependent TV shows for a second, but wont rule out either that there may be things we can't see in spectrum human sensory organs can perceive. I feel the same way about religion. Don't believe the word coming out of the mouth of a priest (any religion) for a second, but that doesn't mean The Big Bang is an all encompassing theory.

You make me laugh " It was cringe worthy. People running around with shaky-cams trying to recreate the Blair Witch Project atmosphere " 

Yes I have gathered you are generally an agnostic, basically my entire SA family  are agnostic. I am the only Christian\religious person but I believe in evolution as well. I know this sounds like a contraction but its not for me. For example I know the earth is older than 6000 years old and I believe that man  originally came from Africa hundreds of thousands of years ago  so I dont get into arguments around the facts with people around these topics. 

But I do believe in most of the New Testament and that Jesus died and was resurrected. I also believe our sins can be forgiven if we work towards real absolution and I definitely believe that we are more than a physical body and a soul or similar thing exists even though I cant prove it  ...and I do believe we will get judged when we die and our choices in life will have consequence 

I know it sounds strange but I am comfortable  with this  

Do you believe in things like the Loch Ness and sightings of Big Foot?

Edited July 14, 2021 by BruceVC

[Gorth]

16 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Do you believe in things like the Loch Ness and sightings of Big Foot?

Believe? No, not really. Again, not quite the same as believing there is none. There just hasn't been any hard proof presented and I suspect people sometimes work themselves into some kind of self induced (mass) hysteria, seeing things, because of the way brains compensates for what they expected to see and are not seeing and then fills in the gaps for them. It's a mechanism that is so strong, that people truly believe they saw "something", because it's real in their brains, having generated the same input as if their sensory nerves had registered it. They could pass a lie detector test too, because to them it *is* real.