The all things Political Topic - For who in this dark, dream-haunted Land dares Resist the righteous flame of Wrath And Doom themselves to despair and death?

[Malcador]

God damned jocks.

[Gfted1]

@Amentep I was thinking the same thing. Maybe they should just pay for their education and services with their new found money?

[Amentep]

2 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

@Amentep I was thinking the same thing. Maybe they should just pay for their education and services with their new found money?

My thinking is that even if they started with it, it wouldn't work.  Hot prospect comes along and everyone NEEDS him or her for their team, and they're going to waive all sorts of fees to get them signed, which in turn will make the other institutions do the same which means ultimately the student athletes won't be paying for it still.  Could be wrong.

[Guard Dog]

2 hours ago, Amentep said:

A student athlete gets tuition and fees, plus room and board, plus their own academic advisors, plus a meal plan, plus their own tutors, plus staff who arrange things for them with various departments around the university for services that the athletics department doesn't provide directly so that the athlete doesn't have to waste their time doing it themselves.  Possibly things like their own nutritionist and medical doctors as well, depending on the institution.  Not to mention the facilities they play and practice in and trainers to assist them in those facilities.  And the coaches.   I can guarantee you they have access to many things that the regular student population does not have.

I get it, I do.  There's a lot of money being thrown around in college athletics.  But despite you saying the receive something valuable for their time and efforts, the impression I get is the fact that they are getting an education, plus a lot more, for free is being treated as valueless in these discussions because it is not cold, hard cash in the hands of the student-athlete.  The same education most of their entire class cohort is probably going into debt to achieve nor do they get the benefits that so many of the athletes do.

Combine that with the fact that I also can't help but feel that some (if not all) of any lost NCAA revenue will be made up by raising fees on the other students - the ones who will be paying their hard earned dollars for the athletes to get more services than they can ever have access to all while those same athletes are also making hundreds of thousands of dollars on top of all the freebies they get - and I can't help but feel that a very big point has been missed in these discussions.

Oh I completely agree the value of a free college education as well as room and board are not negligible at all. And in the details of this particular case the student athletes were looking to pay for educational supplies like lab equipment that the scholarship did not cover. It would be less of a burden had they’ve been allowed to work a job outside of the University. In fact in this particular case the court use the words modest or “in kind” with regards to the benefits being sought.

I completely agree it would be inappropriate to pay them like professional athletes. With one exception. If the university is going to profit from their names or their images specifically in respect to merchandising they should get a taste of that. Rather than drive up any kind of cost for other students permitting student athletes to be compensated for the use of their names or likeness would probably put a halt on the practice rather than increase the burden of someone else. But that’s just a guess.

[Amentep]

The cynic in me says if you open the door, it won't stop until they're essentially professional athletes for the college. The next logical argument is that it's not just names and likenesses on advertising, but just being on the team is an advertisement and they should be compensated for that.

But I could be wrong.

[Hurlshort]

What student athletes actually receive in terms of tuitions, room and board varies dramatically based on the school, the programs, and their value to said program. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

To me it sounds like the commercialization of school sports has been disastrous on multiple fronts, but that genie isn't going back in the bottle.

[Gromnir]

12 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Speaking of freeing slaves...

In N.C.A.A. Case, Supreme Court Backs Payments to Student-Athletes

Another step in the right direction. As I have said in the past, College Sports is a multi-billion dollar business.

men's college football and basketball represent a multi-billion dollar business which, for +90% of universities, isn't  generating enough money to even cover the costs for all the other athletics programs those schools provide.  men's football and basketball is why many schools are able to provide scholarships and facilities for women's fencing and men's lacrosse. 

as an aside, all o' this coulda' been avoided if the ncaa had gotten their act together in january, but partisan politics has even infected the ncaa. couldn't come to any resolution in their vote earlier this year which mighta' staved off the Court from needing get involved, a Court which is not capable o' coming up with solutions. 

keep in mid the decision actual allows individual conferences to keep the current limits in place. however, if you are the big ten and the sec has already allowed some kinda compensation, what do you believe is the obvious result? any conference with competitive men's football and basketball is gonna be granting some kinda additional compensation 'cause is no other way to stay competitive with recruits. 

even so, while the case has far reaching future implications, it isn't quite the paradigm altering decision it is being presented to be...save for in some limited scenarios like graduate schollies. 

HA! Good Fun!

[rjshae]

16 hours ago, Amentep said:

The cynic in me says if you open the door, it won't stop until they're essentially professional athletes for the college. The next logical argument is that it's not just names and likenesses on advertising, but just being on the team is an advertisement and they should be compensated for that.

But I could be wrong.

I don't think you are. Will we reach a point though where the school's education program becomes irrelevant to the athletes? Most of the players will never reach the professional ranks, so the education is the primary benefit.

[ShadySands]

I don't think we'll likely ever get there for lower profile sports but for high profile athletes in marquee sports I'd be surprised if that hasn't already been the case for a while.

[Gromnir]

3 hours ago, ShadySands said:

I don't think we'll likely ever get there for lower profile sports but for high profile athletes in marquee sports I'd be surprised if that hasn't already been the case for a while.

could be an overstatement. am feeling bad we ain't confident that the overstatement is clear or significant.

there is a noteworthy number o' kids who prioritize education when they is being recruited for football and basketball by the big schools. every year stanford gets some good players who were also recruited by usc, ohio state, alabama and every other big name school. also, am guaranteeing that a large % o' the time mom is in the room when a coach is making a recruiting pitch to her son. moms tend to be interested in the comparative educational strengths o' the programs recruiting her son to play football or basketball. you wanna disappoint mom? 

but yeah, almost all the kids being recruited by big universities believe they is gonna get drafted first round o' the pro draft. too many kids destined to never make to the nfl or nba, much less make it in the nfl or nba, are already picking out the car they is gonna buy when they get drafted, and the house they will buy for mom when they sign their first pro contract. w/o moms, the number o' kids focused on anything but education would be extreme high.  as it is, the % o' kids focused on education is too low.

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

Supreme Court backs suspended student 8-1 in free speech case

The only thing that’s surprising about this is that it was not 9 to 0. 

[Gromnir]

13 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Supreme Court backs suspended student 8-1 in free speech case

The only thing that’s surprising about this is that it was not 9 to 0. 

justice (small "j") thomas. punk arse couldn't even spell out the word in his dissent. Justice Harlan, in the 1971 cohen decision managed to spell out the word in spite o' being one o' the most puritanical members o' the Court, but thomas feels vindicated with punishing a student's speech for words uttered not on school grounds nor at some kinda school event, 'cause y'know kids need discipline and respect for teachers is essential or somesuch. small j thomas actual resorts to patently inappropriate use o' "f***" in a supreme Court opinion.

one man's vulgarity is another man's lyric.

small j thomas henceforth. some o' his recent shenanigans has been pushing the envelope, but he is a member o' the Court. even so, am done making excuses and claiming he is a fine judge even if we disagreed with him as a Justice.

[Gromnir]

well this is gonna have tucker carlson's shorts in a twist.

speaking o' which...

The Propaganda Playbook: A Section-by-Section Dissection of Tucker Carlson’s Communication Strategy

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

John Macafee found dead

don’t know for sure but it seems like he hung himself in his prison cell in Spain after the Spanish court ruled he could be extradited to the United States. At least the libertarian election cycles will be spared his BS from now on. So there is that. Now if only we could do something about Spike Cohen

[ComradeYellow]

2 hours ago, Gromnir said:

*Video of General*

"I've studied Mao Zedong, I've read Karl Marx, I've read Lenin, that doesn't make me a communist.."

Ha, we'll make a comrade general out of him yet, especially as the right keeps getting more and more confederate/nazi as progressives score victories.  Just keep backing them into a corner...

[HoonDing]

I thought McAfee was Amerikan.

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

John Macafee found dead

don’t know for sure but it seems like he hung himself in his prison cell in Spain after the Spanish court ruled he could be extradited to the United States. At least the libertarian election cycles will be spared his BS from now on. So there is that. Now if only we could do something about Spike Cohen

Someone somewhere is theorizing that he had Hunter Biden's laptop.

[Guard Dog]

5 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Someone somewhere is theorizing that he had Hunter Biden's laptop.

And Hillary Clinton‘s hard drives.

[ComradeYellow]

Well it was only a matter of time, guy seemed like an eccentric manic depressive.

Some of his takes were amusing though, especially when he was running from the CIA in Cuba a few years back, even complimented the Cuban government for its services.

RIP yo.

[Guard Dog]

Supreme court rules against warrantless automatic searches
 

9-0. i’d call this a win.

[Gorth]

5 hours ago, Gromnir said:

<General making sense>

How the heck did that guy make it to the rank of general???

Maybe he saved the thinking for the later part of his career.

 

Edit: Maybe McAfee pulled an Epstein on the world
 

[Gromnir]

2 hours ago, Gorth said:

How the heck did that guy make it to the rank of general???

 

am thinking this preconception is also what surprised trump. were folks such as mcmaster, mattis and kelly who were the most constant and vocal contrarians in his own early administration. all trump needed hear when mattis' name came up as a possible cabinet position appointee were his nickname o' "mad dog." the President were shocked by the reality o' mattis compared to what he had imagined. should be no surprise to anybody that once the aforementioned individuals and their people were gone from the administration, that is when sh!te like the ukraine stuff happened and sending fed troops to portland occured.

US military academies do a better job o' teaching critical thinking and problem solving than does most other american universities 'cause those skills is deemed vital for an effective officer. dunno, maybe is same kinda surprise people have when they realize that folks who went to georgetown and notre dame know so much 'bout islam and eastern religions-- at catholic universities, comparative religion is required curriculum unlike at public unis. milley's comments shouldn't be surprising to anybody, but they is. and yeah, just 'cause you got a good education and were exposed to many ideas is hardly a guarantee you learn, but chances go up if you is exposed to different ideas and is challenged to think critical 'bout such. 

am gonna repost mattis' op-ed from the atlantic. if you haven't read previous, please do.

Spoiler

IN UNION THERE IS STRENGTH

I have watched this week's unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words "Equal Justice Under Law" are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand — one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values — our values as people and our values as a nation.

When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens — much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.

We must reject any thinking of our cities as a "battlespace" that our uniformed military is called upon to "dominate." At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict — a false conflict — between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.

James Madison wrote in Federalist 14 that "America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat." We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law.

Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that "The Nazi slogan for destroying us ... was 'Divide and Conquer.' Our American answer is 'In Union there is Strength.'" We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis — confident that we are better than our politics.

Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people — does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.

We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Square. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln's "better angels," and listen to them, as we work to unite.

Only by adopting a new path — which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals — will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad.

btw, general milley were perceptive enough to take the mattis comments as a criticism o' his complicity in the events o' lafayette square. immediate following the op-ed 'bove, milley delivered a statement apologizing for his presence in uniform leading to the understandable impression the US military were supporting trump and barr efforts at suppression.

but yeah, am suspecting trump saw the great santini (no chance he read the book)at some point and thought it were a swell parenting guide. 

similar, am betting many persons think US command officers is some kinda alloy o' the worst aspects of all the movie generals and admirals they has seen... and lt. col. wilbur meechum. watch fox news and am understanding why such a preconception exists, 'cause conservative media somehow manages to dredge up the worst exemplars o' military leadership and sadly the reality is there is no shortage o' such. even so, individuals such as mattis, mcmaster, kelly and milley sounding erudite and open-minded should not come as a surprise. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps and again, am not suggesting that all US military officers is capable o' coherent thought and self reflection. many is indeed the troglodytes with bad haircuts spouting jingoistic nonsense we suspect is the default image gorth has fixed in his imagination. even so, is no reason to be surprised or shocked when listening to generals such as milley or mcmaster. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Gromnir

[Gorth]

Great op-ed

[Malcador]

Gaetz being an impressive tool