How do you get yourself through multiple playthroughs?

[Jitsuka]

So I really love this game.  It's awesome and I want to play the hell out of it.  I've felt this way about other games too: Dragon Age, DOS, POE1, etc.  My problem is, once it's over I can't really get myself to play again.  The story is revealed and it's like watching the same movie twice with minor variations. So what i do instead is start multiple playthroughs with different characters and play half the game maybe 5 times then finally finish with one character.  I'm level 18 in my playthrough and maybe half way through the story content so I keep restarting with different builds.  Do those of you who play games 3 or more times just not really bothered by already knowing the story or do you just like the mechanics/gameplay so much you play it for that? Anyway, just curious on your thoughts and approach to games. 

[Boeroer]

That's totally fine imo.

With a lot of games (with a story) it's what I do, too. 

What actually keeps me playing PoE and Deadfire is this forum.  So many ideas get discussed that at some point I want to dive in again and try something new. Often I don't finish the run then though but lose interest before (once I validated that something I thought about works - or doesn't). Sometimes I manage to finish though. I don't do Megabosses most of the times - it's just too tedious nowadays. 

[xzar_monty]

On 5/5/2021 at 6:53 PM, Jitsuka said:

Do those of you who play games 3 or more times just not really bothered by already knowing the story or do you just like the mechanics/gameplay so much you play it for that? Anyway, just curious on your thoughts and approach to games. 

This is a really good question. As a rule, I don't replay these games, because my approach is so story-oriented that I tend to lose interest once I know how things turn out(*). However, the smarter cRPGs have solved a part of this problem by introducing more characters than you can reasonably have in any one playthrough *and* providing those characters with enough unique content so that multiple playthroughs become a possibility.

So, if I do a second playthrough, I tend to rely on characters that I didn't use on my first playthrough. That gives new motivation. But obviously the story problem remains. I think the only game I've played more than 3 times is BG2, and even there I didn't do ToB on all playthroughs (because there's so much railroading). I've done PoE three times and Deadfire twice. My current, third Deadfire playthrough appears to have stalled, and I don't know whether I will ever finish it -- there's a clear sense of just going through the motions now, because I know how everything is going to turn out.

(*) If a game has a clear "good" and "evil" path, that's not enough for me, because I just don't enjoy playing evil. This is not to say that I'm a goody-good paladin or anything; I simply don't like to play evil. In DD terms, I'm generally Neutral or Chaotic Neutral, maybe Chaotic Good, but never Evil.

Edited May 7, 2021 by xzar_monty

[thelee]

7 hours ago, Jitsuka said:

Do those of you who play games 3 or more times just not really bothered by already knowing the story or do you just like the mechanics/gameplay so much you play it for that?

this is pretty much me. the first couple times i was there for the story, but now i'm just in it to see build/party ideas click together in fights and take on challenges. it's a wee bit of a shame since i know the writers spent a lot of time and here i am just smashing through dialogue almost essentially by rote based on what outcome my particular character probably best desires.

at this point i've played the game so much that even mechanics/fights aren't enough to get me through a whole playthrough - it has to be something new that i'm experiencing and that i'm really into as a concept, which deadfire actually has a lot of. but it does mean i abandon runs more aggressively these days to try something new, whereas in my earlier days i would see even meh builds to the end.

 

(recently i also periodically turn on the german translation [with the german mod] to help practice my german learning. the game feels real fresh again when i'm struggling to figure out what the object of a sentence is.)

Edited May 5, 2021 by thelee

[Jitsuka]

Playing games is a great way to learn a language. Maybe I’ll try that.

[xzar_monty]

2 hours ago, Jitsuka said:

Playing games is a great way to learn a language. Maybe I’ll try that.

Please be aware that many of the Deadfire translations are known to be awful. So you may learn plenty of very strange things without knowing it. The idea is wonderful, I agree, but the application is lacking.

[bugarup]

How do I get meself through multiple playthroughs? With ease, but then I'm one of those people who re-read favorite books and re-watch favorite films multiple times. So what if I know how it ends - life's a journey, not a destination, and so is entertainment! 

[xzar_monty]

13 minutes ago, bugarup said:

How do I get meself through multiple playthroughs? With ease, but then I'm one of those people who re-read favorite books and re-watch favorite films multiple times. So what if I know how it ends - life's a journey, not a destination, and so is entertainment! 

This, btw, appears to be a temperamental thing. The desire of novelty vs. love of repetition. A good way to illustrate it is music: some people love to improvise and play the same piece slightly differently every time. Other people can't improvise and absolutely insist on playing a piece "according to how it's written". There are degrees to this, of course, but the extremes are also quite apparent.

Please note: neither approach is right or wrong.

Edited May 6, 2021 by xzar_monty

[kanisatha]

A great question indeed. And I've found everyone's range of views and approaches a very interesting read.

I too am very story-focused, and as such do find it very difficult to fully enjoy a cRPG after I've played it once. However, I am able to appreciate repeat-plays of these games up to a point. Typically it is for any content I may have missed or not been able to access in my previous plays because of choices I made. I also like the idea of playing with different party compositions than what I previously used, as well as different class builds for my PC. But at the same time, I avoid any and all parts of the game that are a slog, and especially those really brutal and aggravating boss-fights, so I hardly ever finish the game after that first time.

[xzar_monty]

17 hours ago, kanisatha said:

But at the same time, I avoid any and all parts of the game that are a slog, and especially those really brutal and aggravating boss-fights, so I hardly ever finish the game after that first time.

By the way, is there a major cRPG out there that does NOT have a boss-fight at the end? I suppose it would be a brave thing to do one.

I can deal with boss-fights (once) if they have a meaning. But stuff like the megabosses in Deadfire feels totally uninteresting to me. (However, I think it's nice that they're there for the people who like them, and that they are entirely skippable for those that don't.)

[bugarup]

53 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

By the way, is there a major cRPG out there that does NOT have a boss-fight at the end? I suppose it would be a brave thing to do one.

"DIsco Elysium" predictably didn't have any. I'd say New Vegas count too, since Lanius isn't boss-bloat difficult? Did Fallout 3 have the end boss fight? Can't remember moments before the ending, its sublime stupidity trumps everything. And that's all I can remember. 

"Prey" and "Dishonored" aren't exactly RPGs, but I remember how pleasantly surprised I was at the absence of end bosses in either of them. 

[xzar_monty]

Fair enough, Disco Elysium didn't really have any -- but then it didn't have any classical combat encounters at all. Marvelous game, though. Perhaps I should have only talked about fantasy cRPGs. But yes, Disco Elysium, you're right.

[Gfted1]

Ive never been able to replay a cRPG, even my beloved BG series, but Im probably a bit of an outlier. Im an unrepentant power gaming save scummer so Ill click through all of the conversation options while Im playing the first time (except evil). And since Im manually controlling a party of 5-6 different classes (some multi-classed), then I feel like I got to enjoy a good sample of the classes and abilities. So for me theres nothing really to be gained by a replay.

[xzar_monty]

2 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Im an unrepentant power gaming save scummer so Ill click through all of the conversation options while Im playing the first time (except evil). And since Im manually controlling a party of 5-6 different classes (some multi-classed), then I feel like I got to enjoy a good sample of the classes and abilities. So for me theres nothing really to be gained by a replay.

Wow! So, to me your approach sounds more like "let's find out what all is possible in this game" instead of "let's go for an adventure!". And hey, this is not a criticism: sure as heck anyone can play their games however they please. But yes, your approach would seem to ensure that there's no additional value in replaying, as you've already seen (nearly) everything, all the options.

[kanisatha]

6 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

By the way, is there a major cRPG out there that does NOT have a boss-fight at the end? I suppose it would be a brave thing to do one.

I can deal with boss-fights (once) if they have a meaning. But stuff like the megabosses in Deadfire feels totally uninteresting to me. (However, I think it's nice that they're there for the people who like them, and that they are entirely skippable for those that don't.)

Spoiler

In Torment: Tides of Numenera you have an option to be able to talk your way out of and completely avoid the final boss fight.

In PoE2 I did not do any of the megabosses even in my first time playing with that DLC. The very idea of a boss fight, let alone a "mega" boss fight, without the story element was completely uninteresting to me. As I've said before, combat in RPGs is something I tolerate for the sake of enjoying everything else that I love in the game. I for one am perfectly happy with easy fights.

[xzar_monty]

16 hours ago, kanisatha said:

  Reveal hidden contents

In Torment: Tides of Numenera you have an option to be able to talk your way out of and completely avoid the final boss fight.

As I've said before, combat in RPGs is something I tolerate for the sake of enjoying everything else that I love in the game. I for one am perfectly happy with easy fights.

Do you ever play on story mode? Just curious. I tend to like combat, if there's not too much of it, but my main interest is in the other aspects of the game. So if a particular battle seems like a nuisance to me, I'm prepared to switch to story mode (in Deadfire, I did this with the final battle in The Forgotten Sanctum, and in Pathfinger: Kingmaker I played the whole last chapter on story mode because of the absurd encounters).

[kanisatha]

6 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

Do you ever play on story mode? Just curious. I tend to like combat, if there's not too much of it, but my main interest is in the other aspects of the game. So if a particular battle seems like a nuisance to me, I'm prepared to switch to story mode (in Deadfire, I did this with the final battle in The Forgotten Sanctum, and in Pathfinger: Kingmaker I played the whole last chapter on story mode because of the absurd encounters).

Yeah I use story mode a lot for my repeat playthroughs, and a big part of why I love the PoE games and P:Km is that I can switch to story mode whenever and wherever and don't get locked into my difficulty level at the beginning of the game. Even the IE games I now tend to use story mode if I replay them.

[thelee]

On 5/6/2021 at 12:55 AM, xzar_monty said:

Please be aware that many of the Deadfire translations are known to be awful. So you may learn plenty of very strange things without knowing it. The idea is wonderful, I agree, but the application is lacking.

Yeah, I tried the german version for a bit, then remembered that someone here (you?) recommended the german translation mod. i installed it, and what a world of difference that made.

I don't remember the specific words off the top of my head, but when I gave myself a dex inspiration, in the original german it was a really clunky word (iirc it was a word that resembled "really good with your fingers" (i'm guessing some weird literal translation of "nimble")). with the mod I believe it's just "schneller".

Edited May 8, 2021 by thelee

[Boeroer]

[german_lesson]

If you mean "Fingerfertigkeit" - that's not considered to be a clunky word (for us). It's rel. common and distinguishes the dexterity of your fingers from the dexterity of your body. There's no literal translation that I know of (Finger = finger, Fertigkeit = skill or proficiency).

So you can totally include it into your German studies.

Using it to translate "nimble" is wrong though. Unless it's "nimble-fingered" of course. 

If I had to translate general Dexterity to German I would say "Geschicklichkeit". Although that already slightly leans towards fine motor skills. The old word "Gewandtheit" would fit better but you would confuse younger people with its use I guess.

Translating quick, nimble and swift into German with that a sense of escalation like quick < nimble < swift is very difficult imo because they are either synonyms or more used with to different parts of the body. It depends a lot on the context. But you could use "schnell" (= fast) for every one of them.

So maybe the German mod uses "schnell" (which generally isn't a very precise translation of the world nimble) because it fit better into the ascending tiers of the dex inspirations.

Usually I would translate nimble with "behände" (old), "beweglich" or "flink".

Those old words like "Gewandtheit" or "behände" may sound funny to younger audiences, bit I think they work very well in fantasy and/or historical games.

Last year I discovered that my youngest sister in law never heard about the old German word "Kleinod" (biju, small gem) and I was baffled. But then I realized she never read any fantasy or historical novels...

German has a smaller vocabulary than English (I think a third only?). So often you end up with a lot of English words with slightly different meanings that would all be translated to the same German word. The most popular example is the word "schlagen" I think. Hitting, striking, pummeling, punching, battering, slapping, bashing, whacking and so on: it's all "schlagen". We Germans make up for that with the excessive use of composites ("Faustschlag" - punch) or funny expressions. 

Ohrfeige (ear + fig) = slap (in the face)

[/german_lesson]

 

[xzar_monty]

34 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

German has a smaller vocabulary than English (I think a third only?).

English has a large vocabulary partly because of its manifold roots. Think of globe / sphere / ball. They all mean essentially the same thing. One comes from Latin, one from Greek and one from Old English / French / whatever.

Note that they only mean essentially the same thing. Context matters. I.e. you wouldn't call Earth a ball, and the thing you hit in tennis is not a sphere (well it is, but you don't call it that).

[Boeroer]

Right. And Old Englisch is basically a German dialect (Saxon). When I read Ivanhoe for the first time (when I was in school) I really understood how Saxon and French got fused together. Especially the example with swine and pork I will never forget.

That leads to a lot bigger vocabulary where such synomyms are used in slightly different contexts (swine for the living animal, pork for the meat etc.).

That makes translating stuff like swine/pig/pork/boar (it's all "Schwein") or  quick, nimble and swift into meaningful different German terms difficult.

We also use a lot of French, Greek and Latin words (even Italian etc.) - yet we have a lot less words. Of course colloquial English doesn't make use of its whole vocabulary - it's more obvious when reading than it is when talking - but still.

Also... I think besides the origin of the English language (that led to more words) it's also the usage of composites or compound words on the German side that leads to less words in comparison. Because you can "invent" new words so easily to describe something - by simply stitching two or more words together - there is no need for new terms.

Like... we usually don't use the word "Ambulanz" (ambulance) although we have it - we prefer to use "Krankenwagen" (krank = sick, wagen = car). 

But that's no scientific research of mine or something. Just a quick theory I made up while I briefly studied German philology (~25 years ago) but that still sounds reasonable to me.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Boeroer

[xzar_monty]

"Krankenwagen" is a nice example of a compound word -- which English doesn't use all that much. (Languages where you can build your own compound words essentially have an infinite vocabulary, if you count each compound word as a separate word.)

One particularly interesting feature of the English language is the fact that no matter what language nouns come from, many adjectives referring to those same nouns come from Latin (or at least a totally different language). Think about it. We have teeth, but things relating to teeth are dental. We've got skin, but skin problems are dermal. We've got fingers and toes, and things referring to both of them are carpopedal. And so on, for quite some time.

Some of these adjectives are really quite rare, not the kinds of things that 99% of native speakers know at all. For example, if something resembles or pertains to a peac o c k, it's pavonine. You don't see that word very often.

[Edit: ha! had to put some spaces in that bird word, apparently it's very naughty!]

Edited May 9, 2021 by xzar_monty

[Boeroer]

I once was in a German forum that censored the word "Arsch" (ass). But it didn't put ***** like here - instead it replaced "Arsch" with "Popo" (bottom).

Then, when you wanted to write about your "Nachbarschaft" (neighborhood) it became really weird...

[Jitsuka]

On 5/7/2021 at 8:07 AM, Gfted1 said:

Ive never been able to replay a cRPG, even my beloved BG series, but Im probably a bit of an outlier. Im an unrepentant power gaming save scummer so Ill click through all of the conversation options while Im playing the first time (except evil). And since Im manually controlling a party of 5-6 different classes (some multi-classed), then I feel like I got to enjoy a good sample of the classes and abilities. So for me theres nothing really to be gained by a replay.

I used to do this but it often doesn't work in newer games because the effects of your choices aren't seen until much later in the game or sometimes even the epilogue.

[Reent]

I love to play games, i hate the tedious parts (so a build has a hard time with stuff? Its not strong enough, restart)... i love to reroll my characters. I haven't finished a POE 2 run up to now, with 335 hours in Steam... i will finish a run this or next week - as long as i don't reroll too much (my run was lvl 19, but lost to one encounter too many times (3 times xD) and i thought about a stronger version... restart - got to lvl 20, took too long to kill a megaboss (3 hours, 30 mins after i figured out how to do it right he died) and i thought about a stronger version - restart... now that one is lvl 13 and i thought about a version that could deal much more damage (+20 to 30 acc, - 3 armor) - maybe i will reroll again and finish both runs?^^)

I restarted Divinity Original Sin 1 about 40 times before finishing my first run (was a coop run i finished and honor runs i didn't finish)

 

I just love to see a build work - its the reason i restart games again and again and again, its the reason i play on the hardest difficulties (okay, pathfinder kingmaker is simply stupid to play on the hardest difficulty - and some god challenges are too stupid to consider)

 

On 5/9/2021 at 2:21 PM, Boeroer said:

I once was in a German forum that censored the word "Arsch" (ass). But it didn't put ***** like here - instead it replaced "Arsch" with "Popo" (bottom).

Then, when you wanted to write about your "Nachbarschaft" (neighborhood) it became really weird...

In school i couldn't open a page i needed for my politics class, the link had "analyse" in it... "anal"...

German... i stopped buying books in german (as long as they are translated to german), i don't play games in german...

The last translated book (english to german) i read butchered it... in the original i didn't need to know who was speaking, everyone had his unique quirks and i could tell who is who with just 1-2 sentences... the translation? Dwarfs, elfs, humans... everyone spoke the same way, no way to differentiate it at all.