The All Things Political Thread (The World and US Reunited)

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, Gorth said:

Well, that's part of the problem. Because the CCP doesn't consider its current territory "sufficient". They are currently not only trying to expropriate the entire sea down to Papua New Guinea, but are constructing military bases in the waters around Torrent Strait. Basically Autralias own "backyard". It would be the equivalent of the CCP setting up military bases on some of the smaller Caribbean Islands to support future territorial claims against The US and Mexico for example. Nobody believes that their "fishery endeavour" is anything but a pretense for constructing a naval base.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-16/china-fishery-fears-for-torres-strait-islanders/12988998

 

Never mind that they are currently busy trespassing into Antarctica, setting up bases there (including in the internationally recognized as Australia's slice of Antarctica)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-30/china-in-antarctica-inspection-regime/10858486?nw=0

Gorthfuscious how is your Mandarin? You Nordic people are very good at languages so I dont think it will take you too long to learn your new language ......but remember you first learning Arabic, how are those language courses going by the way ?

But on a serious note, I share your concern and the good news is their is  a new and more consolidated global  view on the danger from Chinese hegemony, dont worry we wont throw Australia under the bus and leave you alone. You guys are an important part of the global "Western " alliance and we never forget our friends....well mostly we dont unless its a Trump presidency 

[BruceVC]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/vaccinated-pope-francis-makes-history-183106580.html

I respect the Pope for this historic visit to Iraq, he is a good guy and a true believer 

Its important for all the people of Iraq but especially for the shrinking and Lilliputian  Iraqi Christian community which sometimes is indirectly and directly the target of bias and discrimination

So well done Pope 

 

[BruceVC]

On 3/5/2021 at 2:31 PM, Amentep said:

So because a report isn't in good faith, it changes whether racial caricatures are racist or not?

 

The Smerconish vote for this week was " should the Dr Seuss books be banned " and it  came back out of 25 k votes with 91 % " No "

Michael Smerconish is one of the US most respected journalists, and a lawyer,  and is  a reasonable, articulate, intelligent and convincing talk show host

The people that watch his show are generally anti-Trump, political centrists and or  moderates with liberal leanings. So I feel vindicated that they have the same view as me about these books

Sorry  my friend, I guess you wrong. Most people dont find the books  racist and needed to be banned/not published 

Its okay ,remember " to err is to be human " 

 

[Amentep]

It's Seuss' estate pulling them from sale, so opinion polls are irrelevant. Opinion polls of self selecting populations are also statistically invalid anyhow (assuming I'm reading you correctly that the poll was conducted of those watching the show).

[Guard Dog]

Biden administration supports congressional war Powers reform

I never thought I would say this but hats off to the Biden ministration and the Democrats in Congress. This is much needed and long-overdue. 
 

So far I have been neither impressed nor upset at anything the Biden admin has done. They have been very predictable. And that’s a good thing. But this is big because this is a president indicating they are willing to give up Executive power. Granted it’s power the executive should not have been granted but the fact that he’s OK to go along with it says a lot. Makes me happy.

[Guard Dog]

5 minutes ago, Amentep said:

It's Seuss' estate pulling them from sale, so opinion polls are irrelevant. Opinion polls of self selecting populations are also statistically invalid anyhow (assuming I'm reading you correctly that the poll was conducted of those watching the show).

I think it’s incredibly funny how sales of the six books are skyrocketing. I believe the thinking is that since they’re going out publication they might become collectors items. The problem is they’ve been in publication since the 30s so there’s a hell of a lot of them out there. It’s going to be 100 years or more before scarcity even becomes a thing. 

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Amentep said:

It's Seuss' estate pulling them from sale, so opinion polls are irrelevant. Opinion polls of self selecting populations are also statistically invalid anyhow (assuming I'm reading you correctly that the poll was conducted of those watching the show).

Yes the poll was conducted by people watching the show live, every week they have a poll 

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

Biden administration supports congressional war Powers reform

I never thought I would say this but hats off to the Biden ministration and the Democrats in Congress. This is much needed and long-overdue. 
 

So far I have been neither impressed nor upset at anything the Biden admin has done. They have been very predictable. And that’s a good thing. But this is big because this is a president indicating they are willing to give up Executive power. Granted it’s power the executive should not have been granted but the fact that he’s OK to go along with it says a lot. Makes me happy.

You havent been impressed with overall  how Biden is not questioning the science and believes in the efficacy of vaccines as far as the virus spread in the USA is concerned? You not supportive of the USA now being back in all the international Climate warming conventions ?

Compared to Trumps disastrous and calamitous  handling of the virus....you not just a little impressed?

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Amentep said:

It's Seuss' estate pulling them from sale, so opinion polls are irrelevant. Opinion polls of self selecting populations are also statistically invalid anyhow (assuming I'm reading you correctly that the poll was conducted of those watching the show).

exactly. this story ain't what some folks suggest it is.

clarification 'cause am certain gd and a few others ain't getting it.

even if the massachusetts story were what gd thought it were, it still wouldn't be analogous or even relevant to the seuss estate issue. am knowing gd and others got distracted by fact the seuss story involves books, which is no doubt the inspiration for the gd goose-stepping and bonfires imagery (his mockrage) but presence o' books don't make for a censorship story.  seuss ain't gonna make their zoo book anymore 'cause it includes images which may offend. well, that is censorship, no? no. is not censorship and is not analogous to any censorship story whether is tv or radio or book content. don't let appearance of word "book" in both the massachusetts school opinion piece which mischaracterized school censorship and the seuss estate.  

is no authority telling seuss they should not publish. is no relevant government action whatsoever. nobody with any power over the seuss estate, public or private, is mandating actions regarding seuss choice to make the investment to continue publishing. heck, there weren't even some kinda spontaneous grassroots movement to boycott all things seuss until the offensive books were removed from circulation. seuss can't remove the books from shelves o' libraries or bookstores even if they wished to do so, and there weren't a boycott or protests save in the extreme small and largely unnoticed singular examples. serious folks, there were absolute nothing to see here in all those seuss stories regardless o' whether the images were appropriate for children or not.

if the coca cola company decided to stop making six o' their less popular drinks and the reason they gave for doing so were 'cause o' the particular high sugar content in those drinks being unhealthy for kids, would anybody call such action censorship? would anybody even consider the possibility that coca cola's choice not to make soopersugarrush (not a real thing btw) were at all similar to the mass. school reading list story? converse, the imagined discontinuation o' of sugarrush and the seuss estate actions would be analogous.

don't let gd's initial mockrage, or his more recent mockrage at Gromnir chastising, distract you. is a bunch o' yahoos out there who tried to make the seuss story about cancel culture and censorship and there isn't anything whatsoever to justify such indignation. 

gd makes hyperbolic statements not 'cause he thinks those statements false but 'cause he believes the hyperbole represents a fundamental truth while simultaneous presenting in a humorous way. Gromnir ignores the humor, save to note nazi images is typical a poor choice unless you are laughing at actual fascists or white supremacists, but when the underlying truth is actual a falsehood, we respond. they is not all pond scum. similar, the seuss story got zero to do with censorship. am aware enough to recognize those s'posed underlying truths in gd's hyperbole and point out how all too often his truths is self-serving fantasies. and yes, is self-serving. prohibitions on driving while eating and drinking in nj inspire gd mockrage, 'cause The Government has no business regulating such... or rather, gd doesn't agree that eating and drinking while driving is worthy o' consideration for prohibition.  democracy got it wrong in nj and it deserves to be target o' gd mockrage, but gd frames in context o' libertarian principles... when doing so is convenient or aligns with his personal biases.

we will leave to others to decide if the mockrage is funny. irrelevant. am only responding to those underlying truths (is how gd has described in past, so don't blame us) gd is promoting with a few o' his mockrage efforts.

HA! Good Fun!
 

 

[Guard Dog]

Just now, BruceVC said:

You havent been impressed with overall  how Biden is not questioning the science and believes in the efficacy of vaccines as far as the virus spread in the USA is concerned? You not supportive of the USA now being back in all the international Climate warming conventions ?

Compared to Trumps disastrous and calamitous  handling of the virus....you not just a little impressed?

No because with regard to the vaccines they are behaving as a regular administration should. The previous one was an aberration. As far as re-joining all the climate change agreements they are absolutely nothing but lip service to goals that no one is trying to meet.  
 

The Biden a ministration is doing its job. It hasn’t horrified me and until this it hasn’t impressed me. But seeing an executive willing to give back power is certainly more than I could ever have hoped for from a president. But, like I said it hasn’t actually happened yet. Maybe it never will. Once it does then we’ll talk about it. Let’s just say so far it’s encouraging

[Gromnir]

POLITICO Playbook: Scoop: Trump sends legal notice to GOP to stop using his name

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

No because with regard to the vaccines they are behaving as a regular administration should. The previous one was an aberration. As far as re-joining all the climate change agreements they are absolutely nothing but lip service to goals that no one is trying to meet.  
 

The Biden a ministration is doing its job. It hasn’t horrified me and until this it hasn’t impressed me. But seeing an executive willing to give back power is certainly more than I could ever have hoped for from a president. But, like I said it hasn’t actually happened yet. Maybe it never will. Once it does then we’ll talk about it. Let’s just say so far it’s encouraging

You make a good point when we celebrate mediocrity and get excited if a government does its job....like it should and is getting paid for. Trump set a low bar on some things, it shouldnt become the acceptable norm

 

[Guard Dog]

2 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

POLITICO Playbook: Scoop: Trump sends legal notice to GOP to stop using his name

HA! Good Fun!

I think this is an awesome idea. We should all stop using that name. That dude would be best forgotten 

[Gromnir]

in twenty years, chances are trump will only be remembered in small ways. he will be the answer to trivia questions or middle school civics exam 'bout impeachment? is perhaps unfortunate in one sense as calvin coolidge and his nativist policies is also unknown by most americans. am suspecting coolidge is more often recalled as the guy bitten by a pet racoon he kept in the wh.  predictable, those folks in the heartland didn't recognize when trump repackaged such bigotry.  forget means more likely is gonna happen again... and again.

HA! Good Fun!

ps in our federalist system, the President is not s'posed to be able to do much on the domestic front and we can't blame only trump for making people forget such. circumventing Congress and/or doing overt unConstitutional knowing full well the senate won't respond should not be the new standard for Presidential accomplishment.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Gromnir

[BruceVC]

So Biden got his $1.9 trillion relief bill passed in the Senate  by the smallest of margins ...but a victory is a victory 

[Gfted1]

w00tw00t! I think that means $2,800 coming my way!

[Zoraptor]

Microsoft Exchange hacked, by China this time. Might be time for the big US corps to upgrade their protection from McAfee, and the NSA to deprioritise dragnetting gran's chain emails and funny cat videos for some industrial espionage prevention?

[ComradeYellow]

Speaking of China

The shape of things to come in China | The Vineyard of the Saker

They seem to be doing well for themselves, XI is like the perfect synthesis of Imperial Dynasty China and Maoism.  

What would be the American equivalent of that?  We have the New Deal of the 1930's, and then the Neoliberal anti-thesis to that in the 1980's with Reagan.  I guess a synthesis would be Neoliberalism + a federal jobs program similar to that of the 1930's.

Do it up America.

Edited March 6, 2021 by ComradeMaster

[BruceVC]

9 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Microsoft Exchange hacked, by China this time. Might be time for the big US corps to upgrade their protection from McAfee, and the NSA to deprioritise dragnetting gran's chain emails and funny cat videos for some industrial espionage prevention?

This is concerning and another example of the real dangers and damage  of cyber-espionage but it happens because Microsoft is such a big target because its applications are so wide spread

Also this is not about anti-Virus  in most cases but code exploitation so you fix it with hotfixes and patches of the OS and its application which in this cases is on-premise Exchange 

 

[rjshae]

I'm wondering if the cancel culture phenomenon can be considered a form of moral panic? The definition comes close:

Quote

A mass movement based on the false or exaggerated perception that some cultural behavior or group of people is dangerously deviant and poses a threat to society's values and interests. Moral panics are generally fueled by media coverage of social issues.

 

[BruceVC]

15 minutes ago, rjshae said:

I'm wondering if the cancel culture phenomenon can be considered a form of moral panic? The definition comes close:

 

I wouldnt call it moral panic .....its a good question? 

I wouldn't call it  moral because for me that word is real and means something that is consistent and sometimes cancel culture is more about grandstanding, sheep mentality and people having an automatic knee-jerk reaction to certain developments only if committed by one group or another. So its inconsistent with how it manifests 

I see it as a form of isolating and punishing people or companies we dont like and it has a direct impact on the revenue stream of the targeted group ? So its punitive and a form of punishment IMO  

Edited March 7, 2021 by BruceVC

[Gromnir]

2 hours ago, rjshae said:

I'm wondering if the cancel culture phenomenon can be considered a form of moral panic? The definition comes close:

 

listen for a bit from minute 22 to at least 26:30. please.

this were mlk's final speech.

am genuine not certain what is cancel culture. a boycott which a group perceives as ill-advised, unfair or misguided, is cancel culture? converse, a righteous and reasoned boycott is admirable and american?

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY: I STAND WITH DR. SEUSS ...After 6 Racist Books Yanked

most o' the time Gromnir ignores the curious triggering aspect o' 21st century cancel culture. is not a right or left thing neither as from our pov both ends o' the spectrum is perpetually aggrieved and just waiting for an opportunity to pantomime their indignation even if they need fabricate a reason to rage. seuss estate? really?

am gonna agree that many media sources appear to exist for not much reason other than to feed the misguided rage o' listeners and viewers and readers.  yellow journalism were so turn o' the 20th century, but here we are in 2021 and internet and 24/7 tv news cycles magnify the rage and ignorance with fiberoptic efficiency and speed. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

[Guard Dog]

13 hours ago, Gromnir said:

exactly. this story ain't what some folks suggest it is.

clarification 'cause am certain gd and a few others ain't getting it.

even if the massachusetts story were what gd thought it were, it still wouldn't be analogous or even relevant to the seuss estate issue. am knowing gd and others got distracted by fact the seuss story involves books, which is no doubt the inspiration for the gd goose-stepping and bonfires imagery (his mockrage) but presence o' books don't make for a censorship story.  seuss ain't gonna make their zoo book anymore 'cause it includes images which may offend. well, that is censorship, no? no. is not censorship and is not analogous to any censorship story whether is tv or radio or book content. don't let appearance of word "book" in both the massachusetts school opinion piece which mischaracterized school censorship and the seuss estate.  

is no authority telling seuss they should not publish. is no relevant government action whatsoever. nobody with any power over the seuss estate, public or private, is mandating actions regarding seuss choice to make the investment to continue publishing. heck, there weren't even some kinda spontaneous grassroots movement to boycott all things seuss until the offensive books were removed from circulation. seuss can't remove the books from shelves o' libraries or bookstores even if they wished to do so, and there weren't a boycott or protests save in the extreme small and largely unnoticed singular examples. serious folks, there were absolute nothing to see here in all those seuss stories regardless o' whether the images were appropriate for children or not.

if the coca cola company decided to stop making six o' their less popular drinks and the reason they gave for doing so were 'cause o' the particular high sugar content in those drinks being unhealthy for kids, would anybody call such action censorship? would anybody even consider the possibility that coca cola's choice not to make soopersugarrush (not a real thing btw) were at all similar to the mass. school reading list story? converse, the imagined discontinuation o' of sugarrush and the seuss estate actions would be analogous.

don't let gd's initial mockrage, or his more recent mockrage at Gromnir chastising, distract you. is a bunch o' yahoos out there who tried to make the seuss story about cancel culture and censorship and there isn't anything whatsoever to justify such indignation. 

gd makes hyperbolic statements not 'cause he thinks those statements false but 'cause he believes the hyperbole represents a fundamental truth while simultaneous presenting in a humorous way. Gromnir ignores the humor, save to note nazi images is typical a poor choice unless you are laughing at actual fascists or white supremacists, but when the underlying truth is actual a falsehood, we respond. they is not all pond scum. similar, the seuss story got zero to do with censorship. am aware enough to recognize those s'posed underlying truths in gd's hyperbole and point out how all too often his truths is self-serving fantasies. and yes, is self-serving. prohibitions on driving while eating and drinking in nj inspire gd mockrage, 'cause The Government has no business regulating such... or rather, gd doesn't agree that eating and drinking while driving is worthy o' consideration for prohibition.  democracy got it wrong in nj and it deserves to be target o' gd mockrage, but gd frames in context o' libertarian principles... when doing so is convenient or aligns with his personal biases.

we will leave to others to decide if the mockrage is funny. irrelevant. am only responding to those underlying truths (is how gd has described in past, so don't blame us) gd is promoting with a few o' his mockrage efforts.

HA! Good Fun!
 

 

OK, some of this criticism is fair some not. With the Seuss thing I knew from the get-go the Seuss people were making the call and this was not "cancel culture" (as though that were some new thing or only a tool of the modern left). So my target for criticism was not the decision to stop publishing the books rather the "outrage" if you want to call it that that led them to do so. But, when making that jest I had not actually SEEN the pics. Not like they were on the front page of the paper and googling   "Seuss + offensive image" and similar came up with very little on that one day. Gfted linked some and my response to that was here. I think you'll see I was singing a different tune after that on this one point. But, as you well know, about half the time the public cries "racist" it's much ado about nothing. The other half there is a legit beef. I mean people got in a twist about Kendall Jenner investing in a tequila company for crying out loud. After a while it becomes difficult to take this s--t seriously.  Well, in this case there was a good reason. Had this been anything else I'd say let it go. That's just how things were back then. They are not like that now. But these are children's books and stuff like this is not appropriate for impressionable minds.

There is no question I've staked out untenable positions before. Sometimes deliberately to provoke conversation, sometimes earnestly. I've also painted myself into ideological corners and been left with making contradictory arguments. Even the best chess players blunder and I am far from the best. It's also fair to say my "mockrage" tends to run in one direction: against the "left". In past days mocking the "right" is like kicking a blind three legged dog. Their influence was waning. Plus as distasteful as the right is in promoting militant nationalism and Judeo-Christian ethics as the underpinning of all public policy (and this coming from a religious man speaking of contradictions)  the collectivism and preference for heavy handed regulation of the modern left strikes me as far more insidious.  At least until Trump started pitching his fits in 2016. Now the right is a fair bit worse sometimes. 

Yeah, democracy gets it wrong all the time. Slavery, Jim Crow, prohibition, Indian Relocation Acts, Secession, internment camps, etc. Suppression of liberty comes not just from the capitals but from the ballot box too. Sometimes it must be done, sometimes it's unnecessary nanny state overreach. Unless an act has a high probability of harming someone else (drunk driving for example) the prerogatives of the individual > the "there ought to be a law" voters. About that much I think I have always been consistent. The idea of getting a ticket for drinking a cup of coffee while driving is pretty freaking awful. Besides, as Von Causewitz would tell us if you fight hard in the small battles you might not have to fight the big ones. 

As far as Nazi imagery, I don't like trotting that out. I've criticized people for doing it because the more false comparisons are made the more people forget how terrible they were. But, off the top of my head I can't think of anyone else who had public book burnings. 

[BruceVC]

15 hours ago, Gromnir said:

 

is no authority telling seuss they should not publish. is no relevant government action whatsoever. nobody with any power over the seuss estate, public or private, is mandating actions regarding seuss choice to make the investment to continue publishing. heck, there weren't even some kinda spontaneous grassroots movement to boycott all things seuss until the offensive books were removed from circulation. seuss can't remove the books from shelves o' libraries or bookstores even if they wished to do so, and there weren't a boycott or protests save in the extreme small and largely unnoticed singular examples. serious folks, there were absolute nothing to see here in all those seuss stories regardless o' whether the images were appropriate for children or not.

 

Gromnir you and Amentep are raising similar points about this is a decision made entirely by the  Seuss Estate and therefore its a private decision and should or can be respected without overreacting and calling out spurious examples of censorship 

I agree but that is not the primary issue for me. If you read the link below you will see the Seuss Estate came to this conclusion based on a report and study that was commissioned. That is the real issue, the study came to some conclusions  that were clearly inaccurate, biased and anti-white and we should all feel very uncomfortable with this 

You cannot possibly suggest just because a white person writes a story and all the characters are white that means the book  advocates  white supremacy????

Yes their were other conclusions but that type of  biased direct analysis calls into question all other points raised and in a courtroom  that evidence would be considered tainted ...or something similar, you know the legal nomenclature 

So the Seuss Estate should implement another study by people that aren't blatantly biased and anti-white 

Then I will reflect on it objectively and decide if it makes sense 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/02/us/dr-seuss-books-cease-publication-trnd/index.html

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

 

You cannot possibly suggest just because a white person writes a story and all the characters are white that means the book  advocates  white supremacy????

 

naughty. terrible strawman.

...

there is a fundamental disconnect at work.

the seuss estate is not a government entity. they have chosen not to publish six books. is the seuss estate choice illegal in the US, europe, south africa or pretty much anywheres? no? is the choice not to publish fraudulent or a civil rights violation? no? 

if you disagree with the seuss people and their choice, what is your solution? you gonna get the government to force 'em to change their mind? gd should mockrage over such a suggestion. am gonna assume you recognize and agree is not appropriate for the government to force the publishing o' the six books in question. so if no government solution, what is the alternative? as a private consumer, how does bruce affect change o' a business entity with which he might disagree? if you want the seuss estate to do different studies until they agree with bruce, how are you gonna convince the seuss people to undertake your better studies? what if the seuss people tell bruce, "no"?

am not considering it spam if we can get you to recognize the message with a repeat viewing. 22 minute mark. please.

 

as for @Guard Dog

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

So my target for criticism was not the decision to stop publishing the books rather the "outrage" if you want to call it that that led them to do so.

and even this you assumed into existence in your typical mockrage fashion. did you have a source which showed the seuss estate were responding to widespread criticism from oversensitive parents? as with your they are all pond scum shtick, you started with your bias and worked backwards from your conclusion.  the seuss estate, as part o' an effort to maintain their brand, did a study which solicited response from experts and parents and if we pretend to know details behind the choice seuss inc made we would just be making stuff up. point is this weren't a choice made to quiet pitchfork wielding snowflakes, or whoever peopled your fever dream which inspired your post. it were a business choice. perhaps the choice were made to prevent the inevitable mob gd imagined? dunno. 

but this time, even though the mob you imagined didn't exist, their goose stepping rage were justified 'cause you agree, in retrospect, that the books is inappropriate for 21st century crumb snatchers?

...

well, uh, ok?

as for book burning, is an unpleasant us history o' such. comic books were a popular target in the early days o' that fledgling new industry. laugh if you will, but is a mistake to underestimate angry moms. the pro life movement were functional created by catholic women in the 70s and nobody took it serious when it first got started. us catholics were predominant democrat voters before the pro life movement. more recent we suspect you has forgotten the religious groups and their belief harry potter books needed be burned 'cause jk rowling were condoning witchcraft? do a google search if you never heard o' such. with a little prodding, am almost certain you 'member terry jones, the florida pastor who burned a quran or a few such. yes? were big news 'cause it got considerable coverage in islamic nations. us book burnings is not as uncommon as you might think... though the most amusing example which comes to mind may be the following story: 

North Carolina church plans Halloween Bible burning

nothing particular funny 'bout the story says gd and others? well, that is 'cause we left out the paul harvey bit.

Spoiler

the book burning was cancelled because o' rain.

HA! Good Fun!