Politics... US election edition (2020 almost over, read all about it!)

[Malcador]

Woman who got shot was on her way into the room, had thought she was backing away from another video.

Looks like got it through the throat. What a stupid thing to die for.

 

[Raithe]

[Raithe]

[BruceVC]

9 minutes ago, Raithe said:

This has got be one of the funniest things I have seen around what happened 

[Guard Dog]

1 hour ago, Darkpriest said:

 I would blame it on Trumps initial speach. 

 

 

[Zoraptor]

Trump did at least say explicitly no violence. No doubt there will be a fair few who say that he meant the opposite, but it is what he said. And let's be honest, it was hardly the storming of the Bastille. It was extraordinarily embarrassing for just about everyone involved though, on every side.

OTOH, it really does illustrate what the real problem is when you have experts on TV simultaneously talking about how all americans should come together in harmony now; and simultaneously throw a bunch of people into prison andor execute them for sedition/ Treason, impeach Trump and instantly remove him, invoke the 25th amendment, purge any politician who supports Trump from Congress- because the situation is as bad as the Civil War, after all- and generally do just about anything and everything to ensure there won't be any coming together. Two more weeks of Trump and he's gone, and there's nothing he can do about it. There's no need for purges, and all knee jerk reactions will do is more damage to the institutions they theoretically want to protect. Ironically, exactly what happened after every time the Capitol got mobbed in Rome, too.

Makes me glad the polarisation here is relatively minor. If we had equivalent coverage Andrew Falloon driving a tractor up the steps of the Beehive to protest the fart tax would have been a brutal assault on the seat of Democracy and New Zealand itself by radical National Party cadres obviously intent on a coup since they were equipped with the base model of a Bob Semple tank, instead of some dumb yokel future sex pest MP making a tit of himself and showing off his premature baldness on national news while somehow contriving to stall the tractor.

[BruceVC]

Trump has just released a new statement where he accepts " their will be an orderly transition " on Jan 20. I cant find it online at the moment to post it so you can read all yourselves 

Its a weak statement and I dont accept it as its too late, he should have  said this weeks ago to avoid what we witnessed 

Trump has played a huge part in  the final, violent death knell  of his presidency and in some ways the only positive you could get from the anarchy we saw last night is now even more Republicans are turning away from him and Biden will definitely become president 

[melkathi]

1 hour ago, Darkpriest said:

Yup, it looked more like a spontaneous action. I did not see people there in any "tactical" gear.

 

No police in tactical gear, but quite a number of protesters

[BruceVC]

8 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Trump did at least say explicitly no violence. No doubt there will be a fair few who say that he meant the opposite, but it is what he said. And let's be honest, it was hardly the storming of the Bastille. It was extraordinarily embarrassing for just about everyone involved though, on every side.

OTOH, it really does illustrate what the real problem is when you have experts on TV simultaneously talking about how all americans should come together in harmony now; and simultaneously throw a bunch of people into prison andor execute them for sedition/ Treason, impeach Trump and instantly remove him, invoke the 25th amendment, purge any politician who supports Trump from Congress- because the situation is as bad as the Civil War, after all- and generally do just about anything and everything to ensure there won't be any coming together. Two more weeks of Trump and he's gone, and there's nothing he can do about it. There's no need for purges, and all knee jerk reactions will do is more damage to the institutions they theoretically want to protect. Ironically, exactly what happened after every time the Capitol got mobbed in Rome, too.

Makes me glad the polarisation here is relatively minor. If we had equivalent coverage Andrew Falloon driving a tractor up the steps of the Beehive to protest the fart tax would have been a brutal assault on the seat of Democracy and New Zealand itself by radical National Party cadres obviously intent on a coup since they were equipped with the base model of a Bob Semple tank, instead of some dumb yokel future sex pest MP making a tit of himself and showing off his premature baldness on national news while somehow contriving to stall the tractor.

Interesting post Zora, interesting 

I have absolutely noticed this today  on all the international news  channels  I watch and especially CNN where most commentators are framing this as a civil war type of event and the greatest attack on the USA kind of thing....there are really degrees of embellishment and  no real " lets unite as 1 country " at the moment

But Trump is still more to blame than the media sometimes mischaracterizing events ...he could have toned down the rhetoric and accepted the election results and this wouldnt have occurred  

Oh and I really love and enjoy both Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo but they guilty of this at the moment on CNN 

Edited January 7, 2021 by BruceVC

[Darkpriest]

6 minutes ago, melkathi said:

No police in tactical gear, but quite a number of protesters

Not seeing that on the TV footage though, and I looked at CNN for that. Worst things they had on a reel, was some people breaking outside window, some guys in the chamber with tossed up stuff, some people bashing inside door and near the gunshot situation, some pro-trumper switching us flag with trump flag (the US flag was passed down and not damaged), and some guy keeping distance from the officer retreating upstairs. Was shown as it was a black officer chased by a white dude, but sadly for CNN the people did not maul him there on the staircase... Some barrier pushing outside the building and that's it. 

I did not see anything even remotely similar to ANTIFA black blocks, or mob attacking police during 'peaceful protests', or the burnings and use of explosives during other protests, like ones gains Trump near the White House. 

[Raithe]

It did cause an interesting discussion, someone was raising the point on the matters of crowd control and psychology. 

That if you have people moving around using guns as props rather than threatening weapons, and you send in people with guns to control them... There is a much greater chance that things will spill out of control, shots will be fired, people are much more likely to be killed, and thus cause a lot more political fallout and no-one wants to face that sort of political checks to pay.  So have smaller number of unarmed people to handle those sorts of protesters is more likely to have a prestige hit, but reduce injuries and deaths.

While if you have unarmed crowds that might turn violent, and you send in people with guns, the people with guns generally won't have to shoot anyone, and the unarmed crowds are more likely to have some level of restraint. While if you had sent in people without guns to face them, its much more likely to turn physical.

 

Eh, how serious those ideas are, and whether it was part of the consideration rather than casual class/racial/radical politics issues or a form of justification is another matter.

But it was an interesting idea.

 

So for that devils advocate position,

[Guard Dog]

As bad as Trump and his administration was it was also not without some accomplishments. However all hi will be remembered for is the way he reacted to losing the election culminating in this BS today. And that is 100% on him. He could have left office with dignity and pride. He wrote his name in the history book and even managed to do a little good here and there even if almost by accident. That should be enough for any ego but apparently it wasn’t. 
 

I have always insisted we don’t judge a President until after they have been out of office for a time. It takes time and distance to determine what the actual impact of their administration was. Not this time. This son of a bitch goes straight to the bottom of the list. Warren Harding will be so pleased to hear he is no longer the worst President in US history. 
 

EDIT: Correction. Warren’ Harding will be pleased to learn he is no longer the SECOND worst president in American history. Nobody is kicking Woodrow Wilson out of the cellar. He ruined the entire 20th century. Even Trump couldn’t top that one.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Guard Dog

[Skarpen]

How can there be a unity when Biden supporters answer to his healing plea was: "We want blood"?

I don't think US problem comes down to education. Gromnir is educated, I rest my case.

The bigger problem is lack of decency, unity and the notion that only "my side" is right. US had few things that united them as a nation. Patriotism, family, sports, entertainment and few others. But all those things were systemically deconstructed and filled with division in the last couple of years. 

BLM and MAGA protestors have exactly the same message: We are oppressed people whose rights are being violated and our voices ignored.

And how could they not think that when they are constantly reinforced in this belief by their respective bubbles starting from the top: politicians, media etc. 

Of course some "educated" people will stay "they believe in stoopid" they need education. Ok, how is that helpful? They are already educated, they are being educated to love everything their side do and say and hate everything and everyone on the other side every single day 24/7.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Skarpen

[Amentep]

2 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

Yup, it looked more like a spontaneous action. I did not see people there in any "tactical" gear. 

Maybe, although there were early reports of a group walking and chanting, then when they stopped a group began the rush, which the crowd joined in.

3 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

There wasn't a single molotov ****tail flying,

Reports have them having never left the cooler they were found in.

3 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

13 injured officers? Were any of that severe? 

From the reports that the police were pepper sprayed by protesters, I suspect that might be what they are counting. 

Haven't seen any reports on that specifically, and as always with recent events, what is currently reported may be wrong.

[teknoman2]

the media present the situation as a Trump coup attempt but in my opinion this is just the obvious outcome of decades of political failure.

Edited January 7, 2021 by teknoman2

[ComradeYellow]

31 minutes ago, teknoman2 said:

the media present the situation as a Trump coup attempt but in my opinion this the just the obvious outcome of decades of political failure.

Edited January 7, 2021 by ComradeMaster

[Hildegard]

These events reminded me, can someone please explain to me why aren't there any major BLM protests for some time now? They got all their demands fulfilled or what? 

[teknoman2]

16 minutes ago, Hildegard said:

These events reminded me, can someone please explain to me why aren't there any major BLM protests for some time now? They got all their demands fulfilled or what? 

the BLM movement's purpose was to create a situation that would favor Biden's race to the US throne. they cared about the problems of the black community just as much as Biden did in his 40 years in politics... because there is only one rule in politics "never solve a problem if you can't replace it with a bigger one" and in the history of USA, racial discrimination has been the biggest problem that everyone says they want to solve and nobody even attempts to do something about. in a society without problems, politicians stop being the leaders of the nation and become just public workers and no politician would ever accept that.

Edited January 7, 2021 by teknoman2

[BruceVC]

9 minutes ago, teknoman2 said:

the BLM movement's purpose was to create a situation that would favor Biden's race to the US throne. they cared about the problems of the black community just as much as Biden did in his 40 years in politics... because there is only one rule in politics "never solve a problem if you can't replace it with a bigger one" and in the history of USA, racial discrimination has been the biggest problem that everyone says they want to solve and nobody even attempts to do something about. in a society without problems, politicians stop being the leaders of the nation and become just public workers and no politician would ever accept that.

 

24 minutes ago, Hildegard said:

These events reminded me, can someone please explain to me why aren't there any major BLM protests for some time now? They got all their demands fulfilled or what? 

There have been 1 or 2 BLM protests, there was one about 3 weeks around over an alleged killing by the police, I dont know if its true or not but at the moment the virus spread has been keeping many people off the streets 

Edited January 7, 2021 by BruceVC

[ComradeYellow]

1 minute ago, BruceVC said:

There have been 1 or 2 BLM protests, there was one about 3 weeks around over an alleged killing by the police, I dont know if its true or not but at the moment the virus spread has been keeping many people off the streets 

The protests started after the virus spread when unemployment reached significantly high levels, the Floyd incident was the fuse that lit the powder keg.

Also, just because the media gets bored of the BLM protests and doesn't report on it as much doesn't mean there isn't still around.

[Raithe]

I think we can firmly state...

This reenactment of OLYMPUS HAS FALLEN sucked worse than the film did.

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

The protests started after the virus spread when unemployment reached significantly high levels, the Floyd incident was the fuse that lit the powder keg.

Also, just because the media gets bored of the BLM protests and doesn't report on it as much doesn't mean there isn't still around.

No BLM protests have been around on and off since about 2013 and certain events, like the killing of Floyd, can lead to additional protests  and resurgence of anger and recognition of the movement . So the BLM  protests didnt start after the virus spread at all?

[ComradeYellow]

1 hour ago, Skarpen said:

I don't think US problem comes down to education. Gromnir is educated, I rest my case.

Well that's kind of a double edged sword really.  It's how you apply your "educatedness" that really matters.  Lenin, for instance, came from a very educated and loving and fairly wealthy background and yet he dedicated his life to the poormans workers causes.  We can debate for years whether he was successful or not, lets not please, but the modern version of being "educated" seems to revert to the 18th/19th century version of it: being a wealthy landowner with little to no regard to income inequality, poverty, and forming small circles of like-minded individuals.

[BruceVC]

4 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

Well that's kind of a double edged sword really.  It's how you apply your "educatedness" that really matters.  Lenin, for instance, came from a very educated and loving and fairly wealthy background and yet he dedicated his life to the poormans workers causes.  We can debate for years whether he was successful or not, lets not please, but the modern version of being "educated" seems to revert to the 18th/19th century version of it: being a wealthy landowner with little to no regard to income inequality, poverty, and forming small circles of like-minded individuals.

That is interesting, so an educated man is responsible for the failure and  the decades of the Cold War where the Soviets and China, mainly, tried to spread the deeply flawed Communist ideology around the world 

Im disappointed a truly educated man could think of such a terrible system for people to live under ....but lets accept its true 

[BruceVC]

Giuliani is trying to squirm his way out of any responsibility for the violence and how he was also one of the instigators 

He used the words " trial by combat " and violence ensured and people died. He definitely doesn't get a pass ...ever 

https://news.yahoo.com/lets-trial-combat-over-election-164935300.html