COnverting PoE build to PoE2

[Desmodeus]

So I almost finished running this build and planning to import him as my first PoE2 char. So I wonder - can I keep this burn themed style character by transitioning into Ascetic most likely Fury/Nalpazca (in memory of Zahua) or this thing won't fly?

[Desmodeus]

Ok so maybe that way it would be more productive

1. Is Fury bonus to elemental spells works with Firebrand? It has elemental keyword so it should in theory but then again - it is a summon so summon itself might not be affected. If its not affected - is there a better druid class to go?

2. Is firebrand itself viable in Deadfire? I know wizard weapons are great but what about giant fire sword? Is it viable for ascetic?

3. What abilities are better to take in new game for twohanded monk? Should I keep lightning strikes for example or switch to swift flurry instead?

4. Is there a reason mechanically to go with skills other then maxing out alchemy for keeping Nalpazca high on drugs?

5. What drug I better to stuck up on as Nalpazca as coral snuff speed boost does not stuck with swift strike IIRC

6. What subweapon I should get? Basic one is clearly greatsword proficiency

7. Does Scion of Flame still works with base firebrand damage or not

[Kaylon]

The combo will work of course. The Wildstrike bonus adds a 20% lash to all your weapons, Firebrand included. Scion of Flame adds +1 penetration to all your fire attacks, Firebrand included. Firebrand is a good weapon at the start/mid game and coupled with the ring of Focused Flame it becomes very effective. However you should keep in mind that it scales with your level and won't go beyond superb. You should also spec in morning stars, large shields, arquebuses because they have good abilities. The most useful drug is Whiteleaf and it's the only one that scales with alchemy lvl...

[Boeroer]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding - but you can't summon Firebrand while shifted. You can't summon any weapon while shifted. You can't even get Reaping Knives from a Cipher while shifted. So my understanding is that Wildstrike bonuses shouldn't affect Firebrand at all - since they are only active while shifted. Unless I'm missing something. Scroll maybe works while shifted? Didn't try that...

Iirc the Fury's PEN bonus does not apply to the Firebrand Great Sword. Scion of Flame and Ring of Focused Flames (+10 ACC) do apply at all times which is great. But Scion of Flame applies +1 PEN instead of 20% dmg. This is even better than in PoE since penetration is the most important station a weapon (because underpenetration is the most severe dmg loss).

So a Fury does not give you a lot of benefits if you want to focus on Firebrand. You will lose Rejuvenation spells which would be very beneficial for a Monk with the usual wound generation mechanics, especially Helwalker but also Nalpasca. 

Unlike PoE's Firebrand the Deadfire version has no increased base damage. But it has a burning lash instead. 

You could also skip Druid and go for something else (e.g. Bleak Walker, Devoted, Rogue, single class and so on)  - using scrolls of Firebrand instead. 

In my opinion Firebrand-builds are less impactful in Deadfire than they were in PoE. Mainly because there are no items besides consumables that summon it (so you limit yourself to Druid or scroll) and because the enormous base dmg of the PoE version was reduced. It's still viable though because of Scion oF and Ring of FF imo.

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Boeroer

[Desmodeus]

I think I'll stick with druid/monk multiclass just to not depend on items for firebrand

Which druid subclass would be best then? Standart animist? Or maybe even lifegiver? As I understood - Lifegiver summon block only count for creature spells, not weapon summoning... Or am I wrong?

[Boeroer]

Yes, Livegiver can summon Firebrand. Only creature summoning spells are excluded (and afaik only the ones from the druid class - the Dichotomous Soul of Monk would still work).

A Lifegiver has +2 PL to all Rejuvenation spells in general which is good. However the nicer bonus is his ability to gain +5 PL while shifted (but suffer -5 PL after the shift ends). If you don't shift at all because you want to use Firebrand 24/ I'd say it's a bit of a shame.  On the other hand the Livegiver gets all the great healing spells as auto-picks - which will cost you no abilits points and would free up points for some other stuff. So yes: I would pick Livegiver I think.

Thematically a Fury would make perfect sense. Too bad the passive(s) won't do anything for you. I just checked again in the game: no increased PEN with Firebrand.

I forgot how long Firebrand lasts in Deadfire. It has a base duration of 60 seconds which scales with Power Level and INT. At level 20 with 20ish INT you will have durations of over 120 secs. Nice. 

Also checked whether Firebrand scroll would work while shifted: it does not. Afaik there's no way to combine Wildstrike lashes with weapons (other than the natural spiritshift weapons).

So you don't need need to pick those wildstrike talents if you won't shift at all. Quick Summoning might be good though. 

Taste of the Hunt is actually a very good melee "spell". Especially with a Monk as second class because the increased INT of Turning Wheel will make it last a long time (doing lots of raw dmg). Would be even better with a Helwalker because of the higher MIG. Helwalker also seems to be a better combo with Lifegiver because not only is the Helwalker more in need of healing but also because the healing spells will be a lot more potent with his bonus MIG. Nalpasca is still fine of course. More constant and independent wond generation. Just beware getting hit by Arcane Dampener at all costs - it's really nasty against Nalpascas because they'll lose the benefits of the drug and suffer the crash maluses while Arcane Dampener lasts (including no healing!). You can throw in a new drug though if that happens I believe...

I personally would pick Turning Wheel instead of Iron Wheel and Lightning Strikes instead of Swift Flurry (except when playing below Path of the Damned. with Ring of Focused Flame and a difficulty below PotD Swift Flurry might be good).

As Kaylon said: keep some backup weapons like Morning Star and such. Enemies who are resistant to pierce an slash are common so a crushing Morning Star is a good thing. Also the modal of Morning Stars works really well in combination with Force of Anguish...

Edited December 21, 2020 by Boeroer

[Desmodeus]

Pity, Lifegiver it is then.

Well, nothing stops me from spiritshifting as fight starts, busting out moonwell and other rejuvenation stuff that needed, then turning back, summoning firebrand and going to melee. After all -5 PL after shifting would pretty much make rejuvination stuff not that viable after shift

Isn't matrial casting afftect weapon summons? IIRC Quick summoning is for creatures only

[Boeroer]

Ah, but the -5 PL applies to all rejuvenation spells that are still active immediately, including the moonwells etc. you cast before (suddenly lower duration, less and less potent ticks etc.).

So better to not switch at all (unless you are using a healing that works immediately like Cleansing Wind) and enjoy +2 PL at all times.

Or cast the spell and only shift when you need more oomph temporarily (because this also works in the reverse way where active spells will profit from the increased PL immediately while they still run). 

Ah sorry, I meant Martial Caster, not Quick Summoning, you are right.

[Desmodeus]

Well then it is more like "oh crap, my main healer can't manage it, here I go button" Still useful xD

What about Rapid casting? Wouldn't it be better as it would also boost other spells and IIRC swift strikes in Deadfire actually boost casting speed too

[Boeroer]

Yes, afaik Rapid Casting also stacks with Martial Caster - and it def. stacks with Swift Strikes (which not only speeds up casting because of its action speed bonus but also because it gives you +5 DEX). 

Unlike PoE the returns of stacked action speed buffs are not increasing but "only" linear instead. Still good to have. 

[Desmodeus]

I remember hearing that rapid casting becomes suppressed for weapon spells if you have matrial casting... THough I can't remember where xactly and about what version it was.

What about stats? In PoE character ran 18-10-10-10-20-10 to maximise damage per swing coupled with weapon duration. Here it look like I'll be able to get +5 int from Turning Duality so is it still worth to start with 20 in int? I know game have hard cap for stat in 35 point, but I do not know will I even be able to hit it

Looking at ability trees. I think it will be something like

Lifegiver\Nalpasca

1. Sunbeam+Swift Strike
2. Nature Mark
3. Fast runner
4. Firebrand + Twohanded style(on monk side)
5. Taste of hunt
6. Dance of death
7. Returning storm + Lightning strikes(do lashes still stacks?)
8. Torment reach
9. Infestation of maggots... or maybe purge of toxin?
10. Form of Dalengman + Enduring dance
11. Duality of mortal presence
12. Scion of Flame
13. Rapid Casting + Raised Torment
14. Crusible of suffering
15. Relentless storm or maybe Practiced healer... not sure
16. Sunlance + Turning Wheel
17. Matrial caster
18. Improve critical
19. Heart of storm + Heartbeat drumming
20. Penetrating empower?

[AndreaColombo]

14 minutes ago, Desmodeus said:

I remember hearing that rapid casting becomes suppressed for weapon spells if you have matrial casting...

I haven't checked myself, but it shouldn't. Both are a passive bonuses, and passive bonuses in Deadfire always stack.

@KaylonSummoned weapons definitely do not scale to Legendary? I seem to recall they did.

EDIT: Looks like they do, according to @thelee's guide.

Edited December 21, 2020 by AndreaColombo

[Raven Darkholme]

37 minutes ago, AndreaColombo said:

I haven't checked myself, but it shouldn't. Both are a passive bonuses, and passive bonuses in Deadfire always stack.

@KaylonSummoned weapons definitely do not scale to Legendary? I seem to recall they did.

EDIT: Looks like they do, according to @thelee's guide.

Maybe they scale to legendary on a single class? Never seen a summoned weapon scale to legendary on multi.

[thelee]

1 hour ago, Raven Darkholme said:

Maybe they scale to legendary on a single class? Never seen a summoned weapon scale to legendary on multi.

they absolutely scale to legendary. they do so at the same rate as single-classed. this is firebrand scaling to legendary on a multiclass theurge:

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by thelee

[thelee]

5 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Ah, but the -5 PL applies to all rejuvenation spells that are still active immediately, including the moonwells etc. you cast before (suddenly lower duration, less and less potent ticks etc.).

the duration doesn't change, but you will get reduced healing and such. PL-scaling for duration appears to be fixed at cast.

[Raven Darkholme]

15 minutes ago, thelee said:

they absolutely scale to legendary. they do so at the same rate as single-classed. this is firebrand scaling to legendary on a multiclass theurge:

 

Hm, interesting, maybe I'm too used to monastic, which I guess scales past legendary, thats why my summoned weapons always have less pen.

[Boeroer]

2 hours ago, Desmodeus said:

I remember hearing that rapid casting becomes suppressed for weapon spells if you have matrial casting... THough I can't remember where xactly and about what version it was.

What about stats? In PoE character ran 18-10-10-10-20-10 to maximise damage per swing coupled with weapon duration. Here it look like I'll be able to get +5 int from Turning Duality so is it still worth to start with 20 in int? I know game have hard cap for stat in 35 point, but I do not know will I even be able to hit it

Looking at ability trees. I think it will be something like

Lifegiver\Nalpasca

1. Sunbeam+Swift Strike
2. Nature Mark
3. Fast runner
4. Firebrand + Twohanded style(on monk side)
5. Taste of hunt
6. Dance of death
7. Returning storm + Lightning strikes(do lashes still stacks?)
8. Torment reach
9. Infestation of maggots... or maybe purge of toxin?
10. Form of Dalengman + Enduring dance
11. Duality of mortal presence
12. Scion of Flame
13. Rapid Casting + Raised Torment
14. Crusible of suffering
15. Relentless storm or maybe Practiced healer... not sure
16. Sunlance + Turning Wheel
17. Matrial caster
18. Improve critical
19. Heart of storm + Heartbeat drumming
20. Penetrating empower?

I personally would use a bit less MIG and a tad less INT and put something into DEX (best dps stat imo) and maybe also PER - just to make the early game more enjoyable where you tend to miss a lot and won't have access to Ring of Focused Flame, Enduring Dance etc. yet.  But it will also work fine like you posted.

My ability picks would be a bit different - but there's always retraining so I would experiment. Thunderous Blows is very good (it also works with spells etc.). Because +2 PEN is  - and the added MIG is also not bad.

[mjo2138]

Spoiler

@thelee

So Firebrand does scale to legendary? I am excited to try this, because I have wanted to build a firebrand MC character (maybe a fighter/druid?) so this will be by next build! 

[thelee]

6 minutes ago, mjo2138 said:

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@thelee

So Firebrand does scale to legendary? I am excited to try this, because I have wanted to build a firebrand MC character (maybe a fighter/druid?) so this will be by next build! 

yeah, as Boeroer, Kaylon, etc have said, Firebrand is fun because of the synergy with scion of flame and ring of focused flame so you can do a little more with it than say most priest spiritual weapons. For a warden (figher/druid) a devoted fighter set to great sword would be a fun pick (with some arcana to use scrolls in case battles run long or you get arcane suppressed), though I would also pick up monastic unarmed training as a backup source of crush of damage with your fists: it's the only other free proficiency you get as a devoted; spiritshift claws don't count unfortunately.

 

Also important to note that for some odd reason, firebrand doesn't do slash damage, like other great swords. it does pierce/burn. (i guess it's so hot that if you swipe attack, it cauterizes wounds instead of cutting baddies open?)

Edited December 21, 2020 by thelee

[Desmodeus]

4 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

I personally would use a bit less MIG and a tad less INT and put something into DEX (best dps stat imo) and maybe also PER - just to make the early game more enjoyable where you tend to miss a lot and won't have access to Ring of Focused Flame, Enduring Dance etc. yet.

Well original split started from trying to maximise firebrand duration. In PoE with 22 int in the end I only was able to keep it for 49 sec max. So 18 MIG came out of "I don't want to dump res, i don't want to dump con, so where this 8 points will do most good". If it is 2 minutes PoE2 with just 20, after getting +5 from Duality that would be complete overkill. Doubt most encounters would last even half of firebrand time. Maybe 16 int will be better then. With Duality modal it will be 21. Thats free up 4 points. With 16 MIG might be good idea to go 16-10-11-15-16-10 in the beginning then(accuracy from start) translating to 16-10-15-11-16-10 later...

Well its just not to stumble in some trap talents. Like Scion of Flame on Dragon Thrashed CHanter in first game

[mjo2138]

Thanks @thelee @Boeroer, @Kaylon .  really like elemental themed builds, since a lot of enemies tend to have high pierce AR or sometime slash/crush, but elements are a weak spot in enemies AR.  Nothing is more satisfying that melting mobs. I could even see a druid/Paladin themed character using a firebrand and other fire spells, but that might be overkill. I agree that fighter/druid is a good pick. 

 

It is strange that the sword counts as pierce/burn, but having  a source of burn dmg alone should suffice. 

[AndreaColombo]

20 minutes ago, thelee said:

it's the only other free proficiency you get as a devoted; spiritshift claws don't count unfortunately.

I'm quite sure either the Community Patch or @Elric Galad's mod address this, though. Both are heartily recommended

[Desmodeus]

21 minutes ago, thelee said:

Also important to note that for some odd reason, firebrand doesn't do slash damage, like other great swords. it does pierce/burn. (i guess it's so hot that if you swipe attack, it cauterizes wounds instead of cutting baddies open?)

 

9 minutes ago, mjo2138 said:

It is strange that the sword counts as pierce/burn, but having  a source of burn dmg alone should suffice. 

Quote

Forms a powerful sword with a blade of pure fire in the caster's hands that inflicts Burn damage. Switching to another weapon ends the spell.

I am more interested where pierce damage comes from xD

[Boeroer]

Duality of Mortal Presence will go up to +10 INT, not only 5. As a Nalpasca it's pretty common to be at max wounds often (if you combine drugs with Enduring Dance and Hylea's Talons for example - self damage doesn't influence Dance of Death). 

[Elric Galad]

2 hours ago, AndreaColombo said:

I'm quite sure either the Community Patch or @Elric Galad's mod address this, though. Both are heartily recommended

I Indeed tried, but unfortunately it didn't work.