Politics... US election edition

[Chairchucker]

It matters because of the things in the rest of the post that you didn't quote.

 

Dems still win even if Republicans take Arizona, right?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

3 hours ago, Hurlshot said:

AOC is a freshman, soon to be sophomore, representative in the House for about 700,000 people in New York. It is strange how much attention she gets from both sides of the aisle in this country. 

If right wing media wasn't so transparently horny and weird, she probably wouldn't have gotten the attention that made her become the face of the Democrats left wing.

Reading what she's said in her recent interview, I can't find any site (not behind a paywall) explicitly calling falsehood on her claims. What her claims seem to be is that (1) politicians who endorsed such progressive polices as the GND and M4A did win races in swing races (which is true so much as I can tell), (2) that some of the losses can be attributed to the Democratic Party/DNC lacking core competencies in running campaigns rather than ideology (which I have no way of knowing, as some **** on the internet), and (3) that credit for winning the election should go more to progressive activists who got the vote out in Detroit, Atlanta, and Philly instead of Never Trump Republicans like John Kasich or the Lincoln Project grabbing moderate conservatives for Biden (which based upon available data looks true, participation in those cities was huge and Trump looks to have done better in both pure numbers and percentage with Republicans and whites than he did in 2016).

[Gromnir]

31 minutes ago, Chairchucker said:

It matters because of the things in the rest of the post that you didn't quote.

you didn't say anything new in the rest o' the post. and again, aoc came right out and admitted she prioritizes moral right over factual accuracy. even now you aren't willing to call her out over her claim o' moral right v. factual accuracy. avoiding does not strengthen your defense. 

aoc didn't apologize for her theft o' bread mistake or hoax mistakes or her campaign funding claims or her attempt to recharacterize the difficulty o' running as a progressive democrat in a country that looks very red when you get outside of major metropolitan areas. just like trump.

yeah, trump does more often. he is constant talking and constant lying. aoc just doesn't seem to care 'bout facts 'cause again, as she said, it is better to be moral right than factual accurate. 

you like her policies.

as for az... we explained above how trump is fighting in multiple states to delegitimize the vote counts, and all he really needs is a couple o' judges to delay long enough to give republican legislatures in states such as michigan and pennsylvania an excuse and time to overturn the results o' the election.

say it can't happen? 

say republicans wouldn't go so far?

haven't been paying attention these past 4 years.

trump will do anything. he won't need work near so hard to break american democracy if a state such as az ends up going his way. 

also, fox and ap called az for biden. if az goes red, it proves to trumpers that the media calling elections is obviously flawed.

az and georgia may not be necessary, but this is a post trump world in which we live. 

have you never watched a zombie film?

HA! Good Fun!

Edited November 10, 2020 by Gromnir

[Malcador]

They're on her for wanting to keep a list of Trump lackeys, which they translate as a Kill List. 

[Chairchucker]

15 minutes ago, KaineParker said:

 

Thanks dude.

 

Yeah, it didn't really offer that strong a refutation.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 minute ago, Chairchucker said:

Thanks dude.

 

Yeah, it didn't really offer that strong a refutation.

No problem.

Yeah it doesn't really say anything controversial about AOC herself, so much as a PAC that supported her. Comparatively the holes poked in the idea that Democrats would necessarily do better with higher voter turnout and the amount of white people who supported Trump after the last four years is more interesting, in a scary way, to Democratic strategy running forward. 

[Zoraptor]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

if trump, in defense o' his misleading statements and factual inaccuracies defended by observing it were more important to be moral right than factual accurate, would chairchucker or any other aoc fan let trump forget it?

He didn't though, that's an entirely hypothetical situation, and a Strawman. Trump's a compulsive and pathological liar over things big and small, you can't really compare him to anyone except maybe a 5 year old who's raided the cookie jar. Her statement does not say or even imply that she deliberately lies, just that she'd prefer to be wrong on the details than wrong on the big picture.

Kind of loathe to drag up old garbage again, but it's deeply ironic that you're insisting that AOC lies when you insisted that the US didn't in the lead up to GW2, but was merely consistently mistaken over the facts. That is not a consistent position, and appears to be based entirely on your personal view of AOC and wish to defend US/ neocon foreign policy.

 

[Hurlshort]

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/11/09/silicon-valley-founder-of-12-employee-tech-startup-sues-trump-administration-over-denied-visa/

Enjoy some mental gymnastics on how immigration works in the US.

[Gromnir]

21 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

He didn't though, that's an entirely hypothetical situation, and a Strawman. Trump's a compulsive and pathological liar over things big and small, you can't really compare him to anyone except maybe a 5 year old who's raided the cookie jar. Her statement does not say or even imply that she deliberately lies, just that she'd prefer to be wrong on the details than wrong on the big picture.

Kind of loathe to drag up old garbage again, but it's deeply ironic that you're insisting that AOC lies when you insisted that the US didn't in the lead up to GW2, but was merely consistently mistaken over the facts. That is not a consistent position, and appears to be based entirely on your personal view of AOC and wish to defend US/ neocon foreign policy.

 

shoulda' stayed loathe to do what you invariably do... 'cause as we has noted innumerable times, we criticized the US govt. for cherry picking only the intelligence supporting their wmd beliefs. we observed, as did blix, that the US were so convinced o' a conclusion that they ignored the intelligence which did not support the conclusion. blizx admitted he thought the iraqi's had wmds as late as the winter before the invasion. were foolish. US were stoopid. were wrong. not sure how many times we need say. however, were no knowing mistruth. blix and Gromnir agree and were once again zor reading and twisting specific quotes out of context to reach a conclusion no supported by the senate finding you quoted... or blix, who you claimed agreed with your assessment o' US lies.

aoc is also stoopid all too often. she only sees what she wants to see. she willful ignores evidence which would diminish her cause and just pulls nonsense outta thin air, like the bread silliness, to lend credence to what she believes. bs artists made worse because she believes she is moral right. her and **** cheney should get along.

and as for chairchucker

"that strong"?

*snort*

r we stated, "aoc recent tweeted and did interviews claiming how the progressive platform actual insulated democrats from failure." just one article providing example. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/08/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-ends-truce-by-warning-incompetent-democratic-party

again, how would you react if trump did similar? create a chart with covid-19 death rate compared to total cases as 'posed to total population. similar funny number nonsense to make a point. sure, you can argue the validity, but is a misrepresentation.

you defend 'cause you like her and her policy and when trump does similar...

converse, we criticize both aoc and trump when they pull similar shenanigans.

she told you what her priorities are and it don't bother you. factual accuracy matters less than being moral right? 

HA! Good Fun!

ps blix berkeley wmd

and kp should know reposting paywall articles in full is a copyright violation... and wrong.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Gromnir

[Gorth]

7 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

and kp should know reposting paywall articles in full is a copyright violation... and wrong.

Agreed. Removed the post. I'm sure CC saw what he needed to see by now anyway.

[Gromnir]

...

anybody wanna let mick in on the news that there is less than 55k votes left to be counted in az, and ~4k o' those is needing be cured by 5pm tomorrow or they go in the round file along with all those ballots the USPS failed to deliver on time?

poor dear.

trump can still win az. a bit better than 1/2 votes remaining is from red counties, but they is mostly provisional which makes 'em less red if they follow trends. the other 27k votes is from maricopa and pima, and pima has been skewing better than +20 for biden since election day. 

could be less than a 5k vote gap, but needs be something like 200 total for a recount.

HA! Good Fun!

ps am not certain what it will take to call georgia. perhaps waiting 'til after the anticipated recount?

Edited November 10, 2020 by Gromnir

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

45 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Agreed. Removed the post. I'm sure CC saw what he needed to see by now anyway.

My bad.

Anyway it looks like Giuliani's press conference in front of a landscaping company may have used that location to be at least 500 feet away from a school.

https://www.politico.com/states/new-jersey/story/2020/11/09/man-featured-at-giuliani-press-conference-is-a-sex-offender-1335241

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

ps am not certain what it will take to call georgia. perhaps waiting 'til after the anticipated recount?

Saw something on 538 the other day that said AP won't call Georgia if it looks like a recount is likely.

[Elerond]

 

[Gromnir]

12 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Saw something on 538 the other day that said AP won't call Georgia if it looks like a recount is likely.

makes sense, 'cause have not seen any estimate of remaining georgia votes which exceeds 5,000 much less 12,000. saw one estimate which suggested GA total votes remaining could be less than 500.

DOJ official steps down over Barr's voter fraud investigation memo

am knowing some folks may believe Gromnir is exaggerating the possible threat trump and barr pose in this post election situation, but pilger quit in an effort to make a statement 'bout just how wrong this all is. this ain't normal. this isn't right. trump and barr are not constrained by rules and norms. if the senate won't stop trump and barr, they can do just about anything.

mitch mcconnell, lindsey graham and the other senate republicans is the people who will ultimate be responsible for making sure trump doesn't go too far, whatever that means, in this brave new world we have created. 

 

[Bartimaeus]

24 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

makes sense, 'cause have not seen any estimate of remaining georgia votes which exceeds 5,000 much less 12,000. saw one estimate which suggested GA total votes remaining could be less than 500.

DOJ official steps down over Barr's voter fraud investigation memo

am knowing some folks may believe Gromnir is exaggerating the possible threat trump and barr pose in this post election situation, but pilger quit in an effort to make a statement 'bout just how wrong this all is. this ain't normal. this isn't right. trump and barr are not constrained by rules and norms. if the senate won't stop trump and barr, they can do just about anything.

mitch mcconnell, lindsey graham and the other senate republicans is the people who will ultimate be responsible for making sure trump doesn't go too far, whatever that means, in this brave new world we have created. 

 

I wonder if there's any possibility of Barr facing some kind of criminal charge(s) for all the damage he's done to the DoJ. I hope so.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Bartimaeus

[BruceVC]

6 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

@Gromniryou were right. Even I could not predict how low he’d stoop. Despite his long history in public life which made this all but assured. He even made me of all people look optimistic. 
 

On another note I saw on the news there were fireworks in London and they rang the bell‘s in Paris win Biden won. What the hell? They really need to get a life. The outcome of the US presidential election is not that consequential. Especially for the Georgia senate runoff goes the ways we hope.

The global support for Biden is valid and understandable especially if you live  in the EU and UK  and understand the important role the USA plays and needs to  play in ensuring a better world based on proven Democratic principles 

I always mention this but the US elections have real global ramifications around geo-politics and ideological alliances 

So it is consequential on many levels 

[Zoraptor]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

shoulda' stayed loathe to do what you invariably do... 'cause as we has noted innumerable times, we criticized the US govt. for cherry picking only the intelligence supporting their wmd beliefs. we observed, as did blix, that the US were so convinced o' a conclusion that they ignored the intelligence which did not support the conclusion. blizx admitted he thought the iraqi's had wmds as late as the winter before the invasion. were foolish. US were stoopid. were wrong. not sure how many times we need say. however, were no knowing mistruth. blix and Gromnir agree and were once again zor reading and twisting specific quotes out of context to reach a conclusion no supported by the senate finding you quoted... or blix, who you claimed agreed with your assessment o' US lies.

aoc is also stoopid all too often. she only sees what she wants to see. she willful ignores evidence which would diminish her cause and just pulls nonsense outta thin air, like the bread silliness, to lend credence to what she believes. bs artists made worse because she believes she is moral right. her and **** cheney should get along.

And yet, for all her 'stoopid' you've produced... what, one example of such, maybe two? One where it was a conditional statement that literally literally started with "maybe"? The guy defending AOC managed better than that, which is frankly embarrassing for you. And you 100% admit that the US approach to Iraq was riddled with 'mistakes' but still claim they weren't "mistruths"; but for some reason AOC's mistakes are such, and the same as Donald Trump, say, claiming his inauguration had the biggest attendance, repeatedly?

You could hardly prove my point better; the only difference between the two is your personal dislike of AOC's politics, and your kneejerk need to defend the time honoured US foreign policy orthodoxy of asterisking up the Middle East every ten years or so. As such, AOC cannot be merely mistaken- instead she must be lying repeatedly enough to be compared to Donald bleeping Trump who probably literally couldn't tell the truth if his life depended on it; but the Bush Admin otoh was simply repeatedly and consistently mistaken- and didn't lie, at all, even in their definitive statements, including Rumsfeld, who definitively knew where the WMD were, near Baghdad and Tikrit and didn't lie, and was just mistaken about his completely definitive statement on their definite existence and location. AOC says that maybe a crime increase is maybe due to covid's effects on poverty though- that's an obvious lie.

And I couldn't care less about defending AOC, I'm just pointing out that yet again your mouth has run way ahead of any actual evidence and there's a perfect example of you arguing the exact reverse position, when it suited your biases to do so.

[Gromnir]

didn't know we had to provide every misstatement and mischaracterization by aoc. we offered multiple as well as her own quote on the relative importance o' factual accuracy.

again, as seems to have been forgotten already, in response to a a misrepresentation o' pentagon spending (so, another example,) she opined,

"I think that there's a lot of people more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right."

and you are assuming we don't like aoc politics. progressives don't bother us. am bothered by folks such as bernie and aoc who make grandiose statements and promises w/o saying exact how their programs is gonna work in the real world. economic, elizabeth warren is as much o' a progressive as bernie and aoc, and while we criticized her native american stuff and her tax scheme, feel free to review the democrat debate coverage on this board. with perhaps one exception we observed how warren were the best prepared and most effective debater on stage. we liked warren. we preferred booker and klobuchar to bernie and the progressives, but find where we criticize warren 'bout anything save the native american stuff and her tax-the-rich scheme.  

converse, find where we has said positive 'bout aoc. not hard... 'cause we are fair. as much as we do not like how aoc ignores need to provide facts and seems not to care if facts is accurate when she presents 'em, we observed aoc were fantastic cross-examining cohen when he had to testify before congress. we also observed how while her claims that rich people were getting covid tests in march were unsupported by evidence, the fact the entire oklahoma thunder team managed to get tested when the entire state o' oklahoma had less than 200 available tests proved her correct... which is actual yet another example o' aoc making claims w/o facts and evidence.

am fair. 

like with bush and wmds, blix and Gromnir criticized the cherry picking and the lack o' patience regarding inspections... but both Gromnir and blix disagreed with claims o' willful lies... whereas zor quoted a report which concluded no willful lies were made, but you attempted to bend the quote to fit your belief. opposite o' what Gromnir and blix did. so thanks for once again, in your tiresome and predictable way, bringing up the wmd bit.

we criticized the US regarding how they handled wmd intelligence, and we were even more critical o' how the US did indeed lie 'bout post invasion troop estimates required for regime building. we don't have any difficulty calling the US liars... when lies is told. am fair.

zor might try and be more like blix... or Gromnir for that matter.

HA! Good Fun!

ps blix wmd berkeley

[Chairchucker]

You know what, I'm just gonna let you two hug it out or whatever

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

I wonder if there's any possibility of Barr facing some kind of criminal charge(s) for all the damage he's done to the DoJ. I hope so.

unlikely. proof is an issue for criminal and you are needing a beyond a reasonable doubt kinda standard for any possible criminal. knowing misrepresent mueller report is criminal and TWO federal judges accused barr o' doing just that... which in any other administration woulda' been huge headline news and woulda' had the nation and media going nuts. hardly anybody noticed. still, one need prove actual criminal intent and am thinking most o' us forget just how difficult it is to reach that level. virtual everything skeevy action barr engaged in will have contemporaneous memos showing he did so with the belief he were following the law and giving legal explanations for his behaviour. gonna be extreme difficult to prove criminal intent for somebody such as barr.

more significant is fact the proper remedy is impeachment.  you wanna wait on this senate impeaching barr?

HA! Good Fun!

Edited November 10, 2020 by Gromnir

[Pidesco]

https://djtrumplibrary.com/

[Gromnir]

complete unrelated, but our second favorite Congressman is 

a progressive, lesbian, lawyer (JD from from cornell) and ex-mma fighter who trained at pine ridge for a few years when she were active.

congrats on ms. davids winning the kansas 3rd district in 2020. 2nd term.

HA! Good Fun!

[Pidesco]

So Trump has McConnell and Barr on his side. The US ain't rid of Trump yet.

[Guard Dog]

11 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

So Trump has McConnell and Barr on his side. The US ain't rid of Trump yet.

McConnell is paying lip service I think. He and Biden have been friends for years. I don’t think he’ll be sorry to see Trump gone