Politics... US election edition

[uuuhhii]

5 hours ago, rjshae said:

In twenty years, will we all look back at this and laugh? I hope so.

what is happening are always been laughable

but most likely things will be getting much worse and no one care about stupidity 20 years old

Edited November 7, 2020 by uuuhhii

[uuuhhii]

edit in the new forum interface are horrible

Edited November 7, 2020 by uuuhhii

[BruceVC]

Its looking very certain that Biden will win, this election has been about many things and its outcome was significant on many levels

But there really has been hyperbole from many sides around  what it meant. For example this was not " an existential vote on the future of the USA ". This election did show us, for example,  the importance and interest people still have in the Democratic process....Democracy is alive and well so hopefully we can bury these  doom and gloom prognostications about the future of our Democratic systems and think Socialism\Communism offers a better way forward

But one important consideration I want to raise, Biden didnt really " beat " Trump. The Virus beat Trump and this is significant going forward. I would argue that Trumps mishandling of the pandemic was the biggest factor in his loss and was a huge factor in how Biden gained support from states and citizens who may not gave voted Democrat in previous elections

If there was no Corona I believe Trump would have won, why  not considering factors like the previous strength of the US economy

But Biden is definitely a better candidate in addressing and recognizing the risk and spread of the virus in the USA and this is  a salient factor in assessing " what were the reasons the Democrats won " in the future 

I dont believe the whole BLM and " racial reckoning " were the reasons Trump lost 

Anyway this will be unpacked in the future but whatever all the factors were that contributed to the Democrat victory Biden is the best person to be the US president because IMO he is better candidate in addressing the virus spread locally and internationally 

So well done Democrats and well done to all US citizens for participating in these elections and that includes people who voted Libertarian or other parties outside of the 2 primary parties   

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2020 by BruceVC

[Gorth]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

But there really has been hyperbole from many sides around  what it meant. For example this was not " an existential vote on the future of the USA ". This election did show us, for example,  the importance and interest people still have in the Democratic process....Democracy is alive and well so hopefully we can bury these  doom and gloom prognostications about the future of our Democratic systems and think Socialism\Communism offers a better way forward

Speaking of hyperbole...

 

It was never about communism (or socialism), that's just scare tactics and a propaganda shtick from the 1950's McCarthy era. The US has two right wing parties. Both are corporate stooges, doing the bidding of their corporate masters and what their respective lobbyists tells them to do. No, I'm not American, so I can only see if from the outside, but seen from the outside, the only visible difference between the two parties is:

One is a bunch of religious nutcases that wants to turn the US into a theocracy (Khamenei says hello fellow believers) and the other side a bunch of secular nutcases that wants to turn the US into atheist oligarchy (Nietzsche says hello fellow nihilists). Paranoia in society runs so deep now, that only few individuals can see what is outside the cave (if not already done, I would recommend reading Plato's Cave allegory in 'The Republic' (around 500bc), it's a bloody brilliant story).

The US is not divided in left and right, but in the have and have nots. Eventually the inequality in society will tear the fabric of society apart. Rinse and repeat a 5000 year old cyclic tradition. It's will get worse and worse as time goes by. Will the collapse happen in my lifetime? Maybe even, who knows/

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Gorth said:

It was never about communism (or socialism), that's just scare tactics and a propaganda shtick from the 1950's McCarthy era. The US has two right wing parties. Both are corporate stooges, doing the bidding of their corporate masters and what their respective lobbyists tells them to do. No, I'm not American, so I can only see if from the outside, but seen from the outside, the only visible difference between the two parties is:

One is a bunch of religious nutcases that wants to turn the US into a theocracy (Khamenei says hello fellow believers) and the other side a bunch of secular nutcases that wants to turn the US into atheist oligarchy (Nietzsche says hello fellow nihilists). Paranoia in society runs so deep now, that only few individuals can see what is outside the cave (if not already done, I would recommend reading Plato's Cave allegory in 'The Republic' (around 500bc), it's a bloody brilliant story).

The US is not divided in left and right, but in the have and have nots. Eventually the inequality in society will tear the fabric of society apart. Rinse and repeat a 5000 year old cyclic tradition. It's will get worse and worse as time goes by. Will the collapse happen in my lifetime? Maybe even, who knows/

That's an interesting take and I appreciate you sharing it.

As someone who is a citizen, I have to share with you that there are a lot of smart people who all have a different understanding of what axis defines the divide, but all agree that that a divide exists and is growing wider. Maybe it's rural vs urban. Maybe it's college educated vs non-college educated. Maybe it's globalists vs those who feel left behind by their policies. Every theory I hear sound pretty plausible.

No matter what turns out to be the actual root of the issue, the fact that we have people profiting off the nonsense and large percentage of people who lack the skill (through no fault of their own) to discern bulls**t from reality is a sure sign that no clear end is in sight.

[BruceVC]

8 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Speaking of hyperbole...

 

It was never about communism (or socialism), that's just scare tactics and a propaganda shtick from the 1950's McCarthy era. The US has two right wing parties. Both are corporate stooges, doing the bidding of their corporate masters and what their respective lobbyists tells them to do. No, I'm not American, so I can only see if from the outside, but seen from the outside, the only visible difference between the two parties is:

One is a bunch of religious nutcases that wants to turn the US into a theocracy (Khamenei says hello fellow believers) and the other side a bunch of secular nutcases that wants to turn the US into atheist oligarchy (Nietzsche says hello fellow nihilists). Paranoia in society runs so deep now, that only few individuals can see what is outside the cave (if not already done, I would recommend reading Plato's Cave allegory in 'The Republic' (around 500bc), it's a bloody brilliant story).

The US is not divided in left and right, but in the have and have nots. Eventually the inequality in society will tear the fabric of society apart. Rinse and repeat a 5000 year old cyclic tradition. It's will get worse and worse as time goes by. Will the collapse happen in my lifetime? Maybe even, who knows/

 

You make some good points, not bad for a " commie subversive " 

I absolutely believe globally the real social divide is " haves and have nots " and not primarily race or left or right politics which do play a part in certain voting decisions but not as much as the class divide 

But Gorthfuscious let us not dismiss as fearmongering well meaning " socialist " policies that  certain Democrats have openly espoused. Both Warren and Saunders have openly raised economic changes they would like to see and what they would implement that are very concerning due to the potential harm this could lead to around sustainable economic transformation and how to address inequality 

For example we dont want more corporate regulation or suggestions we want to breakup successful businesses that contribute hugely towards the US economy. This includes criticism towards companies like Facebook and Amazon

[Raithe]

Ah, the all important question...     So let us resort to that infamous Devils Speech:

 

[Hurlshort]

15 hours ago, rjshae said:

In twenty years, will we all look back at this and laugh? I hope so.

In 20 years, we will look back at this as the greatest turnout in election history. That is the type of stuff that makes it into the history books, not the bickering and ridiculous claims.

Some of you really need to chill on the whole doom and gloom. This is an great time to be alive. We are witnessing an amazing election, and thanks to our modern world we are all going to get a deep dive into the inner workings of all sorts of different voting districts across the country. We are in the midst of a global pandemic, and yet we've managed to have surprising stability across the economy and the government. Do you really think any of the stuff currently going on is WORSE than what happened in the 20th century? Do you really think this compares to the Great Depression, the Spanish Flu, and 2 World Wars? Let's get some perspective, people.  

[Raithe]

Well...

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Hurlshot said:

In 20 years, we will look back at this as the greatest turnout in election history. That is the type of stuff that makes it into the history books, not the bickering and ridiculous claims.

Some of you really need to chill on the whole doom and gloom. This is an great time to be alive. We are witnessing an amazing election, and thanks to our modern world we are all going to get a deep dive into the inner workings of all sorts of different voting districts across the country. We are in the midst of a global pandemic, and yet we've managed to have surprising stability across the economy and the government. Do you really think any of the stuff currently going on is WORSE than what happened in the 20th century? Do you really think this compares to the Great Depression, the Spanish Flu, and 2 World Wars? Let's get some perspective, people.  

Well said Hurlshot, I agree with most of it 

[Keyrock]

The whole Trump presidency has been like a movie, and no way the movie ends with Biden clearly winning and Trump walking away gracefully, that's a boring as **** movie. Deep down we all knew it would go down some kind of crazy way like this.

[Totally not Gorgon]

I wonder what's going to happen to the republican party. They are kinda like a cult without a cult leader now. Trump isn't going to care about politics if he can't be the president. 

 

[Hurlshort]

1 minute ago, Totally not Gorgon said:

I wonder what's going to happen to the republican party. They are kinda like a cult without a cult leader now. Trump isn't going to care about politics if he can't be the president. 

 

They control the senate and got over 65 million votes, so I think they will be alright.

[Pidesco]

1 hour ago, Hurlshot said:

In 20 years, we will look back at this as the greatest turnout in election history. That is the type of stuff that makes it into the history books, not the bickering and ridiculous claims.

Some of you really need to chill on the whole doom and gloom. This is an great time to be alive. We are witnessing an amazing election, and thanks to our modern world we are all going to get a deep dive into the inner workings of all sorts of different voting districts across the country. We are in the midst of a global pandemic, and yet we've managed to have surprising stability across the economy and the government. Do you really think any of the stuff currently going on is WORSE than what happened in the 20th century? Do you really think this compares to the Great Depression, the Spanish Flu, and 2 World Wars? Let's get some perspective, people.  

I'd argue covid19 compares to the Spanish Flu. 

[Totally not Gorgon]

Well there is that, but those votes were all for trump. Who is out of politics I suppose, that's the presumption. 

[Guard Dog]

Just heard on the radio the race has been called. Joe Biden is the 46th President of the United States. So, let’s look at what he’s getting here. We’re still in the middle of a deadly pandemic. Half of the country literally hates the other half. A half of one of those halves thinks he was not even legitimately elected. The former president is going to go kicking and screaming and looks like he will make trouble for years to come. The country is $27 trillion in debt. There is a genuine risk of a currency implosion, banking failure, and its most important entitlement systems have about three years of solvency remaining. In other words this man is inheriting a real dogs dinner. I hope he has some hot sauce. Well, good luck Joe and beware what you wish for.

As for Trump, hey America let’s not do that again. You guys of been wanting a celebrity president for years. Now you’ve had one you got it out of your system so just let it go. If you want to kill bugs you hire an exterminator. If you want your pipes fixed you hire a plumber. If you want to house you hire a builder. If you want a complex system designed in a timely manner and under budget you hire a good engineer. The moral of the story here is don’t rely on amateurs to do important s—t. 
 

anyway, that’s all I have to say I’ll go back into my electronic semi-exile. 

[Pidesco]

3 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

They control the senate and got over 65 million votes, so I think they will be alright.

As Gorgon says Trump turned large parts of the GOP base into a Trump cult. If there's a schism between the Trump loyalists and the rest of the GOP, the party will be in trouble. Additionally, if Trump runs in 2024 outside of the GOP, it will probably be catastrophic for the party's chances. 

[ShadySands]

That's all folks!

[LadyCrimson]

I'm at least partially relieved, and I can go back to my hobbit-hole, mostly ignoring the news again for a while. 

I'm not as optimistic as Hurlshot tho, even if I sort of still agree with him.  It's not my nature, especially re: human politics.

[BruceVC]

21 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Just heard on the radio the race has been called. Joe Biden is the 46th President of the United States. So, let’s look at what he’s getting here. We’re still in the middle of a deadly pandemic. Half of the country literally hates the other half. A half of one of those halves thinks he was not even legitimately elected. The former president is going to go kicking and screaming and looks like he will make trouble for years to come. The country is $27 trillion in debt. There is a genuine risk of a currency implosion, banking failure, and its most important entitlement systems have about three years of solvency remaining. In other words this man is inheriting a real dogs dinner. I hope he has some hot sauce. Well, good luck Joe and beware what you wish for.

As for Trump, hey America let’s not do that again. You guys of been wanting a celebrity president for years. Now you’ve had one you got it out of your system so just let it go. If you want to kill bugs you hire an exterminator. If you want your pipes fixed you hire a plumber. If you want to house you hire a builder. If you want a complex system designed in a timely manner and under budget you hire a good engineer. The moral of the story here is don’t rely on amateurs to do important s—t. 
 

anyway, that’s all I have to say I’ll go back into my electronic semi-exile. 

Nah, it will be fine...have faith GD 

Remember what Obama inherited in 2008? The potential collapse of the US financial sector which would have crashed the global economy and the USA involved in 2 seemingly interminable wars in Iraq and Afghanistan

The USA survived that and became stronger 

[Raithe]

https://www.theonion.com/jubilant-reaction-to-trump-defeat-quickly-soured-by-new-1845551327?

CHICAGO—Seconds after the room had erupted into cheers, applause, and a few big sighs of relief, sources confirmed Tuesday that a local group of friend’s jubilant reaction to Donald Trump’s defeat had soured quickly upon the announcement of Joe Biden’s victory. “One moment we’re celebrating our nation’s repudiation of Trump, and the next Biden is declared the winner—what a buzzkill,” said 29-year-old Ryan Lopez, whose smile had visibly faded to weariness as the former vice president and retired six-term senator appeared on television to celebrate with his family. “The American people just ousted a transparently racist, misogynistic, and authoritarian president, but before we even have a chance to savor that triumph, we’re forced to deal with the fact that his replacement will be Joe Biden. Ugh, why does the single best piece of news this country has had in years have to be tainted immediately?"

[ComradeYellow]

9 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Nah, it will be fine...have faith GD 

Remember what Obama inherited in 2008? The potential collapse of the US financial sector which would have crashed the global economy and the USA involved in 2 seemingly interminable wars in Iraq and Afghanistan

The USA survived that and became stronger 

Obama was actually a bad POTUS because his domestic agenda did diddly squat but bail out the banks, also look what he did Libya, Syria, and Lebanon.

An imperialist con man to the marrow of his bone, a Blue Trump.

[Raithe]

[Malcador]

 

 

[Hurlshort]

44 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

I'd argue covid19 compares to the Spanish Flu. 

It may compare, heck it may even be worse, but our advances in hygiene and medicine over the last century have certainly limited the damage. It is also hard to imagine we will go for years without a decent vaccine.