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Politics... US election edition


Gorth

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1 hour ago, Elerond said:

Interesting how it is mark of dictature when opposition candidate is winning and private companies don't broadcast government's message 🤔

It never stops amazing me how much the land of free speech defends censorship when it happens to someone else. It doesn't bother anyone that media decide what people can and cannot hear from government?

36 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

As GD said, its  a pity Trump cant walk away with dignity. He had a good run and did some good things but we must all respect the will of the people in a Democracy 🏛️

If this would be the will of the people then I would agree. As this was clearly a fraud I say Trump should use every legal option to make this right. I would even say that he has an obligation not as a candidate but as a president to make sure american people weren't robbed.

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3 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

If this would be the will of the people then I would agree. As this was clearly a fraud I say Trump should use every legal option to make this right. I would even say that he has an obligation not as a candidate but as a president to make sure american people weren't robbed.

Even without calling the EC votes, Biden has almost 4 million more popular votes than Trump. That is the will of the American people. Investigations will be done and there will be recounts, but until there is actually evidence of fraud, this is a Biden win. 

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12 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

If this would be the will of the people then I would agree. As this was clearly a fraud I say Trump should use every legal option to make this right. I would even say that he has an obligation not as a candidate but as a president to make sure american people weren't robbed.

Where is the evidence? I suspect he'll try his best, but I don't see how he can win as there is nothing to support his claims. He'd whine about the opponent cheating even if Biden won with 90% of the votes.

Hillary, in a moment of clarity, sums it up nicely here:

“Every time Donald thinks things are not going in his direction, he claims whatever it is rigged against him. The FBI conducted a year-long investigation into my emails. They concluded there was no case. He said the FBI was rigged. He lost the Iowa caucus; he lost the Wisconsin primary. He said the Republican primary was rigged against him. Then Trump University gets sued for fraud and racketeering. He claims the court system and the federal judge is rigged against him. There was even a time when he didn't get an Emmy for his TV program three years in a row and he started tweeting that the Emmys were rigged. This is a mind-set. This is how Donald thinks. And it's funny, but it's also really troubling."

Edited by Maedhros
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23 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

It never stops amazing me how much the land of free speech defends censorship when it happens to someone else. It doesn't bother anyone that media decide what people can and cannot hear from government?

Big part of the freedom of speech is that media is independent of government and has freedom to decide what they cover and not cover

PS. US media didn't cover my speech during Trump speech also so he isn't only one who was censored by evil media corporations 😋

Edited by Elerond
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8 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Big part of the freedom of speech is that media is independent of government and has freedom to decide what they cover and not cover

PS. US media didn't cover my speech during Trump speech also so he isn't only one who was censored by evil media corporations 😋

Elerond I'll listen to your speech ?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Big part of the freedom of speech is that media is independent of government and has freedom to decide what they cover and not cover

Free Speech is when the government forces you to broadcast things I agree with and the more the government forces the freer the speech.

"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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20 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Even without calling the EC votes, Biden has almost 4 million more popular votes than Trump. 

Irrelevant as US election is not based on popular vote. It's like football team claiming they had more corner kicks when they lost the match.

15 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

Where is the evidence? I suspect he'll try his best, but I don't see how he can win as there is nothing to support his claims. 

Evidence will be shown before the court.

9 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Big part of the freedom of speech is that media is independent of government and has freedom to decide what they cover and not cover

PS. US media didn't cover my speech during Trump speech also so he isn't only one who was censored by evil media corporations 😋

Yeah. I forgot US citizens have freedom of speech. Except for work, media, public life, personal life, internet and their diaries.

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2 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Elerond I'll listen to your speech ?

I will give you link as soon as media stops censoring me 

So maybe when we can yet again have developer convention etc. where I am allowed to speak that is not done through MS Teams  

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2 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

Yeah. I forgot US citizens have freedom of speech. Except for work, media, public life, personal life, internet and their diaries.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

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6 minutes ago, KaineParker said:

Free Speech is when the government forces you to broadcast things I agree with and the more the government forces the freer the speech.

Nice definition. Fits you 😊

Mine is: Free speech is when you can speak your mind and government will protect your right to do so from anyone even from itself.

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2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

The thing that worries me is the two Senate races in Georgia are heading for a runoff. That means in January there will be an election that will decide control of the Senate. Jesus. You think this election was bad? That will be some insanity because the democrats will be fighting for total control of the US government. That is an outcome almost too horrible to contemplate. And they will fight like savages for it. Control of the Senate means everything for the crazy left. Expanding the court, Green New Deal, unprecedented growth of federal power. To quote Orwell "We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it.”

Time to buy more cans, MREs, dog food, and ammunition. The fan is on and  the s--t bucket is full and ready to be heaved into it. 

My guess is that you didn't follow politics much in 2008-2010

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Pennsylvania is enough to win and that looks pretty safe at his point, but it is pretty shocking if Biden takes Georgia, Arizona, and Nevada as well. This may have been super close in a couple states, but that could be a pretty big electoral college victory.

 

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3 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Pennsylvania is enough to win and that looks pretty safe at his point, but it is pretty shocking if Biden takes Georgia, Arizona, and Nevada as well. This may have been super close in a couple states, but that could be a pretty big electoral college victory.

 

I'll laugh my ass off, if the Trump will contest the votes successfully (unlikely, but not impossible) , and then unfaithful EC will claim the presidency goes to Biden as per initial count and overall popular vote. 

 

Not so much fun for people in the US though. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Pennsylvania is enough to win and that looks pretty safe at his point, but it is pretty shocking if Biden takes Georgia, Arizona, and Nevada as well. This may have been super close in a couple states, but that could be a pretty big electoral college victory.

 

That would be concerning, we dont want that kind of " sweeping " victory in the swing states and traditional Republican strongholds like Georgia 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

Free speech is when you can speak your mind and government will protect your right to do so from anyone even from itself.

So your definition of Free Speech is that the government will protect your right to speak your mind, but your complaint was...

2 hours ago, Skarpen said:

I've read that media cut off presidents speech midway through.

...in which no one prevented Trump giving a speech to speak his mind.  Or are you saying that Freedom of Speech comes with a requirement to listen to Free Speech? 

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2 hours ago, Skarpen said:

I've read that media cut off presidents speech midway through. So US passed the Belarus and went straight to NK. 

What a curious overreaction to what happened.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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3 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

That would be concerning, we dont want that kind of " sweeping " victory in the swing states and traditional Republican strongholds like Georgia 

We don't want the vote to represent the people who voted?

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10 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

That would be concerning, we dont want that kind of " sweeping " victory in the swing states and traditional Republican strongholds like Georgia 

Why don't we want that ?

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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I would not call it a free speach issue, but it is a media bias issue. 

Social media is a different story, they are censoring what the user posted, but since they are not considered a public utility (yet) then its a bit more gray area. 

This is specifically an issue, when one side of a political spectrum, even in its most crazy forms can speak freely using those mediums and creating some social influence, the more centrists and moderate conservatists can not, even if they are doing so because of their christian religion or policy in regards to spending money or definition of a nation. It's gone so bad, that you need to keep your mouth shut or you will be 'cancelled' 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Achilles said:

My guess is that you didn't follow politics much in 2008-2010

My guess is you weren’t on this board or you would know the answer. The Democrats massively overplayed their hand and lost control of the House of representatives in 2010. Then lost the Senate in 2014. But in the short time they had absolute power they rammed the affordable care act down our throats. Not that it is all bad but there’s a lot of bad to it

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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13 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

So you haven't seen any evidence? You said it was "clearly a fraud" and that the American people had been robbed - how do you know?

You can't now clealry as it is still a process and the items were not investigated, however some people post red Flags and to dismiss them outright seems a bit naive. One red flag - a blip, a couple - needs fixing or someone stupid running the process but in any way should be investigate for the potential error, a lot of - very suspicious and possibly malicious

 

This are some of the red flags raised by the other side of the race, which i guess lead to @Skarpen's strong opinion

 

The massive turn out alone is a red flag.

But as for doing better…

The late night spikes that were enough to close all the Trump leads are a red flag.

The statistically impossible breakdown of the ratios of these vote dumps is a red flag.

The ratios of these dumps being far better than the percentages in the bluest of blue cities, even though the historical data does not match, red flag.

The ratios of these vote dumps favoring Biden more in these few battlegrounds than the ratio for the rest of the country (even the bluest of the blue) red flag.

Biden outperforming Obama among these few urban vote dumps, even though Trump picked up points in every demographic group in the rest of the country, red flag.

The poll observers being removed. Red flag.

The counters cheering as GOP observers are removed, red flag.

The fact that the dem observers outnumber the GOP observers 3 to 1, red flag (and basis of the first lawsuit filed)

The electioneering at the polls (on video), red flag.

The willful violation of the court order requiring the separation of ballots by type, red flag.

USPS whistleblower reporting to the Inspector General that today they were ordered to backdate ballots to yesterday, red flag.

The video of 2 AM deliveries of what appear to be boxes of ballots with no chain of custody or other observers right before the late night miracle spikes, red flag.

Any of those things would be enough to trigger an audit in the normal world. This many flags and I’d be giggling in anticipation of catching some thieves.

And it isn’t that I have to do better. I’m just an gen pop observer who happens to be a retired auditor with a finely tuned bull**** detector. This is going to the courts.

Edited by Darkpriest
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"The massive turn out alone is a red flag."

Why ?

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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12 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

I would not call it a free speach issue, but it is a media bias issue. 

I could agree with an argument of media bias that might be worth looking at, but not Freedom of Speech (with the caveat, perhaps, that no news will be able to cover everything, and given the commercial model, broadcast networks are going to have an incentive to not dusrupt programming schedules without ratings-drawing breaking news to keep advertisers happy).

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