Radeon Thread

[Azdeus]

1 hour ago, Pidesco said:

Inet?

Yuup

At the release hour all the cards were listed as 50+

And inet customers don't like, ever, buy AMDs stuff

[Pidesco]

If AMD could sort out their supply issues and priced their cards at reasonable prices, they'd take over the GPU market.

[Zoraptor]

The supply issues are largely not fixable, at least by AMD. That's a fab space issue, and fundamentally a problem with TSMC not really having any competitors. You cannot step up production on the fly because there's no excess capacity and you have to plan the allocations out many months- up to a year- ahead of time and hope you get things right. The real illustration of that is how many 9800x3d sales AMD are leaving on the table with their constant lack of availability, and that is far higher margin than mid range consumer GPUs and thus far higher priority.

nVidia has the same problem consumer side. Perhaps even worse, since AMD has a wider range of products to be flexible with and a better relationship with TSMC.

Only a limited amount AMD can do about the prices too. When they were selling their own branded reference cards from their website they were MSRP even when retail was higher, but they certainly cannot force 3rd party vendors or card partners to adhere to even MSRP long term (practically, outside of the launch window). They're the #2 maker by a wide margin, they simply don't have the leverage.

[Sven_]

I'm personally more interested in who's the first to decisively beat the raw rendering power of the 2020 3060 Ti -- but for 300 bucks (or lower). Back then, that was a 400 MSRP card.

2025, still nothing.

You can genuinelly see this "entry level Ghetto" by now visually in PC Games Hardware's reviews of the more recent cards in their overall rankings. 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 12:50 AM by Sven_

[Azdeus]

On 3/8/2025 at 1:36 AM, Zoraptor said:

The supply issues are largely not fixable, at least by AMD. That's a fab space issue, and fundamentally a problem with TSMC not really having any competitors. You cannot step up production on the fly because there's no excess capacity and you have to plan the allocations out many months- up to a year- ahead of time and hope you get things right. The real illustration of that is how many 9800x3d sales AMD are leaving on the table with their constant lack of availability, and that is far higher margin than mid range consumer GPUs and thus far higher priority.

nVidia has the same problem consumer side. Perhaps even worse, since AMD has a wider range of products to be flexible with and a better relationship with TSMC.

Only a limited amount AMD can do about the prices too. When they were selling their own branded reference cards from their website they were MSRP even when retail was higher, but they certainly cannot force 3rd party vendors or card partners to adhere to even MSRP long term (practically, outside of the launch window). They're the #2 maker by a wide margin, they simply don't have the leverage.

They can easily tell their partners to meet MSRP, because they can cut off supply to them if they don't do that. Simple as that. They chose ********ery though.

https://www.inet.se/nyhet/11657/radeon-rx-9000-serien-msrp

Så funkar MSRP-priserna

Vi har nu fått veta hur de rekommenderade priserna, så kallade MSRP-priserna, fungerar för lanseringen av AMD Radeon RX 9070 och RX 9070 XT. Vi får inte säga exakta priser inför släppet, men enkelt förklarat kommer de gälla ett begränsat antal kort.

"We have been told how the recommended prices, so called MSRP-prices, works for the launch of 9070 and 9070 xt. We can't tell you the exact prices before the release date, but simply said it's going to be for a limited number of cards"

So they set the MSRP prices low to get good reviews.

[Bartimaeus]

From the GamersNexus "Fake MSRP" video that came out last night, Steve mentioned reading and being told by both board partners and retailers that they only intend to honor the listed MSRPs for the initial launch, but no further. After that, it will be a matter of supply and demand. In other words, if you don't camp out the initial launch and win the lottery, you'll have to pay a much higher price to get your card in the ensuing weeks and months. And your chances of winning that lottery are effectively zero, given that scalpers know by now that prices will be quickly raised after launch, which means the cheaper initial launch cards are what they'll be trying to obtain and scalp the most.

I think it's safe to say that until fabrication isn't bottlenecked by the limits of TSMC's production output, the market is going to continue to be very bad. There's not enough competition, supply is too low, demand is too high, and that's always going to be a very bad situation for anyone that isn't in the business of scalping.

Edited Monday at 02:45 PM by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

Steve also said in that video that certain MSRP cards just don't make money, or at least they didn't for EVGA, and that was before inflation and TSMC's monopoly on modern process nodes. It really does stand to reason that AMD doesn't have the clout to do that beyond an initial launch window or with subsidies they probably don't want to afford.

Still hoping - probably beyond reason - that Intel can get their heads unstuck from their asses and make their new nodes work. Would be a lot better if someone else than the silly Tangerine in Chief would be at he helm. Not to drag politics into the tech forum, but TSMC is sitting on a powder keg and we have no idea when it will go off. They understandably also said that the newest nodes will remain in Taiwan, which makes sense. It's the one thing stopping Winnie Pooh from bringing them home into the Reich.

The Tangerine, meanwhile, doesn't get that setting up tariffs is not going to make factories and fabrication plants appear magically. Not for steel or aluminum or car assembly, and even less so for bleeding edge chips production. We already had a taste of what happens when TSMC stops producing microprocessors for a while, and it was not pretty, and for all their faults, Sleepy Joe and the Democrats at least realized that. Granted, I don't exactly know how effective the Chips Act subsidy was, but The Tangerine and his cronies look at the situation and say: "This is fine, companies should bring their production plants back to America because they have to, not because they're being paid for it!"

As it stands, we better hope China doesn't catch up with modern process nodes before someone with a little more strategic foresight is back at the helm in the US, assuming that is at all possible once the Tangerine's done ruining the country. I am somewhat baffled that for all his tech bro advisors, no one seems to have told him yet how much hangs in the balance of his good friend Winnie playing nice.  

Edited Monday at 05:40 PM by majestic

[Zoraptor]

7 hours ago, Azdeus said:

They can easily tell their partners to meet MSRP, because they can cut off supply to them if they don't do that. Simple as that. They chose ********ery though.

In the sense that they can cut off supply it is easy to make demands, sure. Not easy to get them fulfilled though.

Radeon wouldn't even be close to 1% of ASUS/ GB/ MSI/ (ASRock)'s overall business. We saw how much sway AMD had back in the Geforce Partnership Program days, ie none. They'd just stop making the cards outright. Even the AMD specific brands generally have a sibling company making nVidia and other products. AMD can't really even make their own cards to sell- AMD branded reference cards were actually made by Sapphire, not AMD (same as their CPU coolers were made by a third party). Overall, a bit like Musk threatening to cut off Starlink to people; except this 'Starlink' is a lot smaller, less important and there's an alternative.

MSRP is fundamentally designed around having a cheap reference card design. Otherwise you end up with, say, Pulse and Nitro+ cards both being MSRP despite one obviously being more expensive to make. It is equally fundamentally the Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price. The current problems aren't controllable by a company as large in the video card space as nVidia, so they certainly aren't by AMD.

AMD did what they could when they sold their own cards- at MSRP, and with as good a scalper prevention set up as you could manage.

[Sven_]

11 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I think it's safe to say that until fabrication isn't bottlenecked by the limits of TSMC's production output, the market is going to continue to be very bad. There's not enough competition, supply is too low, demand is too high, and that's always going to be a very bad situation for anyone that isn't in the business of scalping.

Risky, but if it works out, Intel opting out of TSMC may pay off.

Intel relies on Xe3P graphics chips from its own production - a stroke of genius or a risky experiment? | igor´sLAB

[Zoraptor]

Says something about how far Intel's fab arm has fallen that in house production is seen as 'risky' when they really ought to be producing everything there, and would have been even 5 years ago.

There's good talk about their 18A process though and nVidia is rumoured to have been doing test chips on it. Still a decent way off, a year for 3rd party and a bit less for Intel.