Politics XXXVII (The 12th Prime)

[Skarpen]

31 minutes ago, Volourn said:

P.S. Last I heard whites are 65%ish of Amerika. The 75% number just doesn't add up. 13% for blacks. Latinos are more. That would mean with just whites, blacks, and latinos, you have over 100%. What about the asians, Indians, arabs, etc.

Stop violating people with your closed minded, bigoted mathematics.

https://babylonbee.com/news/2-2-4-insists-close-minded-bigot

[Orogun01]

13 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

Stop violating people with your closed minded, bigoted mathematics.

https://babylonbee.com/news/2-2-4-insists-close-minded-bigot

It's becoming more apparent to me that the best way to differentiate between a satirical article and a real one, isn't the content but the economy of words.

[Gromnir]

actually, vol is correct, just not the way he intended. men is far more likely to be armed, so this explains much o' gender disparity o' deaths. men is more likely to carry handguns, in particular, so they is the gender most likely to get killed by cops. if a suspect has a lethal weapon and cops is aware o' the presence o' the gun, they is trained to not hesitate in their use o' force as doing so put lives o' fellow cops, civilians and self at risk. we may blame cops, but please at least be aware how cops is trained and such training is a major contributor to unnecessary suspect deaths. 

also, and we tried earlier in the thread to explain how use o' force encounters escalate, gender does play a significant role in use o' force encounters getting outta hand. if an individual resists arrest or is uncooperative, cops will be more likely to use force if failure to do so would make the cop look weak.  a large man gets less leeway from cops 'cause not use force is more likely to be seen as resulting from fear o' the suspect. can't let yourself look like a punk in front o' suspects or other cops. large men get less leeway from cops than does smaller men. is not fair, but is. call out such behaviour as primitive and irresponsible and we complete agree, is just one reason why training needs be changed.

as for women, in our admitted chauvinistic society it is deemed weak to strike a woman and is difficult to turn off such deep ingrained enculturation. a woman may be far more aggressive and even violent than a man behaving exact same w/o triggering a cop force response 'cause, paradoxically, use force on a woman is signalling weakness where same behaviour from a male suspect would compel a cop to action. such curious disconnects is ordinary human behaviour and human behaviour not need be reasonable to be explained. then again, training may overcome instinct and enculturation.  need better training.  

however, keep in mind guns complete change the equation. armed women gets downed by cops at a similar rate as armed men. vol with his preternatural transitive property fails will find a story or video o' a woman with a gun who were shot by police. such does happen. is far more rare than males 'cause armed women is more rare. 

cops do tend to be sexist. can't apply a generality to any single cop, but as a whole, US cops is affording women a different standard when deciding whether or not force is required.

*shrug*

HA! Good Fun!

Edited July 15, 2020 by Gromnir

[Darkpriest]

1 hour ago, Maedhros said:

Trump is a notorious liar who lies even when he doesn't have to. The amount of lies is unprecedented.

Yes, the media gets a ton of stuff wrong, and other politicians lie too. Doesn't mean Trump is not a special case. 

This sounds like a bias. Do you run statistics? Do you look at others with the same level of diligence, to make this claim and back it up? 

Don't you think that you might have a certain perception due to the scrutinity and amount of coverage that the current POTUS is getting? 

Etc. 

 

[Darkpriest]

1 hour ago, ShadySands said:

That's one of those should be obvious type things. Last I checked black people only make up about 13% of the population so if they got shot more in total numbers than non-Hispanic white people, which are over 60% of the population (I think all white people are around 75%), then something would be really, really wrong.

Also, who checks the fact check checkers?

You can turn that around and ask, how many crimes, especially voilent crimes are committed based on certain group characteristics to the amount of population. 

Statistics is a bitch, and it's fairly easy to frame whatever case you desire by pulling only a part of a picture. 

 

[ShadySands]

1 hour ago, Volourn said:

Police kill more men than women. They are clearly sexist. 

 

P.S. Last I heard whites are 65%ish of Amerika. The 75% number just doesn't add up. 13% for blacks. Latinos are more. That would mean with just whites, blacks, and latinos, you have over 100%. What about the asians, Indians, arabs, etc.

 

Come on, people. If you are gonna try to blow smoke up everyone's behinds, don't make up  such obvious nonsense.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045219

It's pretty close to what I just said

Edited July 15, 2020 by ShadySands
Who fact checks the quick facts?

[Darkpriest]

@ShadySands

Check methodology, check sources and look up the history of errors. 

This is usually sufficient to fact check the fact checker. If reliability is stable, then you can make these less frequent, but i'd never trust something at a face value. Not when it comes anywhere near politics. 

 

[BruceVC]

56 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

@ShadySands

Check methodology, check sources and look up the history of errors. 

This is usually sufficient to fact check the fact checker. If reliability is stable, then you can make these less frequent, but i'd never trust something at a face value. Not when it comes anywhere near politics. 

 

Its not necessary to confirm all the lies\mistruths\ " alternative facts " that Trump has made as we experienced them live at the time, this is not statistics but actual lived experience

If you dont believe this please do your own research, it wont take more than 3-5 hours to confirm for yourself the common pattern from Trump. Interestingly enough he doesnt consider them lies or blatant misrepresentation of facts. I can now understand this but outside of how Trump thinks and how his supporters justify them as " truths" they would be considered lies by the anyone in the global community

And then we dont need to scrutinize the comments of other politicians or leaders because this is primarily about one thing only ...the US president. Trump is the US president so that is why its definitely  about him

But there is no reason you cant personally do your own research on any other politician or leader and find some good links and create  a case study and post it here and I promise you I will read it. I wont agree or disagree until I have read the examples. My advice is start with countries like Venezuela and Russia ....lots of lies and misinformation there   

[ShadySands]

The thing with most of Trump's lies are that they are so small and petty that it's easy to chalk them up as him just misspeaking but since he also has a tendency to double down on them every so often that it mostly disproves that theory. 

A good chunk of them don't require any serious fact checking and can simply be googled. I mean his term started off with a lie about such a stupid thing as crowd sizes. It's mostly pointless lies but the volume is such that his every word draws scrutiny and his antagonistic relationship with most journalists and news organizations isn't doing him any favors in this regard. Most of the extra scrutiny that he gets he's brought on himself.

That said, it has otherwise been a wildly successful tactic for him whether it's intentional or not. He is president after all, an unpopular one to be sure, but still president.

Edited July 15, 2020 by ShadySands

[majestic]

Trump doesn't lie. A lie requires... intent, doesn't it? Most of the time he just doesn't know any better and in the cases where he potentially would his personalilty traits substitute an alternative reality. It's not that uncommon. We had a guy like that at work, he secretly worked for a different company for a year, then switched and later blamed our managers for ruining his carreer after getting fired from his new job because, to quote, they "actively prevented him from poaching customers" and that's why he failed at his new job and got fired.

In no objective reality this could be considered the truth, but for him it sure is. He's just incapable of conceiving anything else. Trump's the same. He looks at the pictures of his inauguration and he really sees bigger crowds than at Kenyian Muslim president's.

Whether or not that makes him fit to be president is something else entirely. Objectively that's a no. He's like a post-brain fever Caligula with less proscriptions (probably because the US doesn't have prosciption lists, not because he would find the concept repugnant). He even had a fake victory over Britannia Syria. Go there, lob a few missiles, pretend like Oboma failed to deal as decisively with Assad as he did and leave.

[Maedhros]

2 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

This sounds like a bias. Do you run statistics? Do you look at others with the same level of diligence, to make this claim and back it up? 

Don't you think that you might have a certain perception due to the scrutinity and amount of coverage that the current POTUS is getting? 

Etc. 

 

Is it of your opinion that Trump lies less or the same as other politicians or are you just playing the devil's advocate?

I base it on having eyes and ears. That the various factcheckers confirm my belief isn't really important to me.

That being said. It depends on how you define a lie. Does Trump truly believe his father was born in Germany, or is that a lie he keeps repeating to save face? Like the guys above say, it's hard to know which of his untruths are intentional and which are not.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Maedhros

[Raithe]

For that added slice of odds and ends:   BBC - Could the US or UK ban TikTok?

[Guard Dog]

5 hours ago, Maedhros said:

Trump is a notorious liar who lies even when he doesn't have to. The amount of lies is unprecedented.

Yes, the media gets a ton of stuff wrong, and other politicians lie too. Doesn't mean Trump is not a special case. 

Actually... he's not. It's not a lie if YOU believe it. He just believes a lot of s--t that isn't true and refuses to listen when people tell him what it true. 

That might actually be worse!

 

Edit: I see three others beat me to the punch

Edited July 15, 2020 by Guard Dog
Doh!

[Amentep]

New thread -