Politics XXXVI (will catch up to superbowls soon)

[ComradeYellow]

4 minutes ago, KaineParker said:

The Libertarian Party should just say **** it and run Joe Exotic or the guy who did a striptease on stage.

What happened to John McAfee?

Last I knew he was on the run from the CIA and hiding in Cuba for tax evasion or whatever.  Gave me a massive chuckle, he even got the opportunity demonstrate how well off Cubans are and that their are no homeless or unemployed in the country.  Would definitely be my second choice were he on the ballot!

[Orogun01]

5 hours ago, ComradeMaster said:

What happened to John McAfee?

Last I knew he was on the run from the CIA and hiding in Cuba for tax evasion or whatever.  Gave me a massive chuckle, he even got the opportunity demonstrate how well off Cubans are and that their are no homeless or unemployed in the country.  Would definitely be my second choice were he on the ballot!

......You have no idea what you're talking about.
Proof: I'm Cuban born, we do have unemployment, we have homeless and we have persona no grata that do not even make into the books, so they're barely citizens.
Rich people do well everywhere, there are a bunch of people that retire to third world countries where the dollar is still worth something and they can live a good live. That doesn't make those countries better.

[ComradeYellow]

I'm just going by what he said, not me!

I've never been there, so his word is more valuable than mine, whether you believe it or not.

Also,

Spoiler

xD

Edited May 21, 2020 by ComradeMaster

[Orogun01]

14 hours ago, ComradeMaster said:

I'm just going by what he said, not me!

I've never been there, so his word is more valuable than mine, whether you believe it or not.

Also,

  Reveal hidden contents

xD

Ok, sorry I got a bit emotional. I've a low threshold for stuff like that.
Could you tweet him my reply? Also tell him that he's a ****.

[Agiel]

 

Yup. Don't see anything wrong with the use of the term "bloodlines" in relationship with Henry Ford. No-sir-ee-bob.

[ComradeYellow]

1 hour ago, Orogun01 said:

Ok, sorry I got a bit emotional. I've a low threshold for stuff like that.
Could you tweet him my reply? Also tell him that he's a ****.

I checked his Twitter recently and he just strikes me as a slightly-more intelligent Trump, typical rich white Yank thinking the world revolves around him and his grandiose, and he's above moral considerations.  His Cuba take was funny though, I wouldn't even know anything about him other than the "anti-virus guy" if not for that.

Edited May 22, 2020 by ComradeMaster

[Orogun01]

10 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

I checked his Twitter recently and he just strikes me as a slightly-more intelligent Trump, typical rich white Yank thinking the world revolves around him and his grandiose, and he's above moral considerations.  His Cuba take was funny though, I wouldn't even know anything about him other than the "anti-virus guy" if not for that.

I knew he was a playboy and he liked to roam around the third world, I just hope that he's not moronic enough to be blind to what people go through in those countries. But to be fair to him, Cubans don't like to show their misery, so it might seem like everything is alright if you're not part of it.

[ComradeYellow]

Like everything we're brainwashed/conditioned to hate it's usually only half bad.

https://shershegoes.com/life-in-cuba-castro/

[Orogun01]

45 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

Like everything we're brainwashed/conditioned to hate it's usually only half bad.

https://shershegoes.com/life-in-cuba-castro/

Look, its a massive cultural difference between the absolutism of developed anglo nations and the relativism of struggling Latin nations. We don't have the luxury of standing strong by our ideals without them ever being challenged, so we pick our battles and we pick our allegiances. You could be the most staunch racist in Cuba, but if the only person you can buy meat from is black you probably will put a cork in it. That type of personal interchanges leads to a more nuanced view of the world and of people than what a role rigid society would.
I would say the problem and what has led to partisanship in the US is in part the fact that we can seclude ourselves in communities of our choosing never challenged, not that there's a deliberate attempt at brainwashing. Plus we are always going to have cultural differences because we view the world in different ways.

Sorry for the long post, the article was fine. Whomever wrote it didn't seem like they stay in the island long enough to have a full picture.

[Guard Dog]

I lived in South Florida for many years up to 2009. I knew many Cuban folks who fled Castro there. I love when people who had never been there explained to them what it was "really" like. Those were usually the same ones who tried to tell them was communism was "really" like too. Usually they would just look at you like you were a particularly unpleasant mentally handicapped child that just crapped your pants. 

[Volourn]

If Cuba was so awesome under Castro, a large number of Cubans wouldn't flee it.   Just another ****hole country. You don't see this happening in the West. How many claimed they  leave the US if Trump won? How many actually followed through? Same with Obama and another president.

 

 I guess racists think Cubans are dumb since why else would you flee a paradise like Castro's Cuba to live in a ****hole like the US? LMAO

[BruceVC]

On 5/22/2020 at 4:58 AM, Orogun01 said:

Look, its a massive cultural difference between the absolutism of developed anglo nations and the relativism of struggling Latin nations. We don't have the luxury of standing strong by our ideals without them ever being challenged, so we pick our battles and we pick our allegiances. You could be the most staunch racist in Cuba, but if the only person you can buy meat from is black you probably will put a cork in it. That type of personal interchanges leads to a more nuanced view of the world and of people than what a role rigid society would.
I would say the problem and what has led to partisanship in the US is in part the fact that we can seclude ourselves in communities of our choosing never challenged, not that there's a deliberate attempt at brainwashing. Plus we are always going to have cultural differences because we view the world in different ways.

Sorry for the long post, the article was fine. Whomever wrote it didn't seem like they stay in the island long enough to have a full picture.

But also the proof of the sustainability and success  of all these other forms of governments outside of Democracies, like Communism and Socialism is the economic trajectory and outcomes

All these so called " socialist " experiments end in abysmal economic failure for several reasons. Either that or there systems can only survive if you control freedom of speech, deny human rights and dont have a transparent legal system like China 

So of course these governments fail because intrinsically Democracy and all its supporting institutions do work and do help address inequality albeit with some flaws but nothing is perfect .....but consider the alternative...imagine living in China where the state  tells you when you need to use the toilet 

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by BruceVC

[Gorth]

7 hours ago, BruceVC said:

intrinsically Democracy and all its supporting institutions do work and do help address inequality

 

Sorry, in that case, the world has less true democracies than true communist regimes.

 

[BruceVC]

22 minutes ago, Gorth said:

 

Sorry, in that case, the world has less true democracies than true communist regimes.

 

Gorthfuscious !!!  Im almost shocked by your cynicism, it feels like we have had this debate many times but its one of those ongoing discussions 

If you disagree with Democracies and the free market leading to a reduction in inequality what do you suggest should be a better model or system of government. I remember what they taught us at the " financial school of white male privilege "...they always use to say " if you dont agree with the current working system ...what is your realistic and feasible alternative " ?

Solutions Gorthfuscious, solutions are better than criticism 

 

[Guard Dog]

41 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Gorthfuscious !!!  Im almost shocked by your cynicism, it feels like we have had this debate many times but its one of those ongoing discussions 

If you disagree with Democracies and the free market leading to a reduction in inequality what do you suggest should be a better model or system of government. I remember what they taught us at the " financial school of white male privilege "...they always use to say " if you dont agree with the current working system ...what is your realistic and feasible alternative " ?

Solutions Gorthfuscious, solutions are better than criticism 

 

 Yep! Worst system in the world... except for all the others

[213374U]

Really inspiring how after a literal decade of going back and forth on the same arguments, the amount by which postures have shifted is measured in angstroms. No doubt a better future is right around the corner and we'll be able to solve all problems by means of reasoned debate.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I just realized I've been here for 8 years now. Huh.

In political news the feds can now monitor people without a warrant. Freedom at its best.

[Orogun01]

12 hours ago, BruceVC said:

But also the proof of the sustainability and success  of all these other forms of governments outside of Democracies, like Communism and Socialism is the economic trajectory and outcomes

All these so called " socialist " experiments end in abysmal economic failure for several reasons. Either that or there systems can only survive if you control freedom of speech, deny human rights and dont have a transparent legal system like China 

So of course these governments fail because intrinsically Democracy and all its supporting institutions do work and do help address inequality albeit with some flaws but nothing is perfect .....but consider the alternative...imagine living in China where the state  tells you when you need to use the toilet 

 

State run economies fail because they're a monopoly, there's no incentive to compete, there's no profit so no need to innovate and workers despite their qualifications are stuck in a singular corporate structure. Tomorrow if McDonald goes bankrupt there's still several other burger chains, because there's no monopoly. Contrast that with Communist countries that nationalized their industries and there's no fallback plan. More so they fail because of ideological inspired social programs that have little value, offer no tangible results or are very poorly thought out because no one can challenge the management.
In short Communist economy can't succeed, China is an exception because their economy is not entirely Communist  and because they steal our IP skipping all R&D

[Gorth]

12 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Gorthfuscious !!!  Im almost shocked by your cynicism, it feels like we have had this debate many times but its one of those ongoing discussions 

If you disagree with Democracies and the free market leading to a reduction in inequality what do you suggest should be a better model or system of government. I remember what they taught us at the " financial school of white male privilege "...they always use to say " if you dont agree with the current working system ...what is your realistic and feasible alternative " ?

Solutions Gorthfuscious, solutions are better than criticism 

 

For starters, you really need to separate the two. The government form is not tied that firmly to the economic system as you suggest.

"Free" market economy exacerbates inequality even worse than communism. Sure, someone gets a lot richer, but just to take Australia as an example (stopping at 2019 where everything went to hell anyway), the GDP went up. Wealth maximizing had never been greater. Yet for the majority of the populating, their disposable income had never been lower.

As Trump likes to put it, cut some red tape and get rid of regulation. Because, the GFC was such a great success right? I'm sure Fox News is still waiting for a way to pin that one on Obama.

Tl;dr; anyone really believe an unregulated market economy doesn't lead to monopolies? If so, I have a very distinct looking, classy tower in Paris I want to sell. In short, a reintroduction of serfdom.

 

As for democracy, a system that depends on majority votes is completely at the mercy of whoever controls popular opinion. In short, whoever controls mass media and social media. Russia picked up on that very fast, trying to sway popular opinions, sometimes overt, sometimes covert. I mentioned the example with Berlusconi in Itale previously. Trump is another good example of the least qualified getting the job because the media loves it. Especially the Murdoch press (who owns among other things Fox)

 

How will you prevent corporate interests from influencing elections so politicians can get elected on their own merits and not as a tool for wealthy "special interest" groups taking lobbying to the next level?

 

Edit: The above question is for me the key. No, I don't have an answer, I wish I did, because, you know, criticizing is easy, coming with suggestions is a lot harder. But identifying problems is usually (at least in computer science) a good start for working on solutions.

 

 

A witty take on it. The difference between wealth and income probably applies to other countries too I think

 

 

[ComradeYellow]

On 5/22/2020 at 6:24 AM, Guard Dog said:

I lived in South Florida for many years up to 2009. I knew many Cuban folks who fled Castro there. I love when people who had never been there explained to them what it was "really" like. Those were usually the same ones who tried to tell them was communism was "really" like too. Usually they would just look at you like you were a particularly unpleasant mentally handicapped child that just crapped your pants. 

The people who "fled" Castro are the ones who obviously don't support the Cuban system so of course you're gonna get a biased response.

[Orogun01]

30 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

The people who "fled" Castro are the ones who obviously don't support the Cuban system so of course you're gonna get a biased response.

By your logic, you're not going to get an unbiased response from those that stayed in Cuba because they're Communists...and they don't want to be thrown into jail.  By your logic North Korea is a great place to live and the overwhelming amount of anecdotal evidence is fabricated to make Communism look bad. "To the skeptic there's never enough evidence"

[ComradeYellow]

Just now, Orogun01 said:

By your logic, you're not going to get an unbiased response from those that stayed in Cuba because they're Communists...and they don't want to be thrown into jail.  By your logic North Korea is a great place to live and the overwhelming amount of anecdotal evidence is fabricated to make Communism look bad. "To the skeptic there's never enough evidence"

I'm just saying every system has its supporters.  I'd say any extreme is bad, cap or com.  Capcom?  Well, we now know where they got that name from!

Anyway, billionares should not exist and every job should be able to support a home to varying degrees.  Nobody should have to kill themselves to live.

[Orogun01]

1 minute ago, ComradeMaster said:

I'm just saying every system has its supporters.  I'd say any extreme is bad, cap or com.  Capcom?  Well, we now know where they got that name from!

Anyway, billionares should not exist and every job should be able to support a home to varying degrees.  Nobody should have to kill themselves to live.

There's a difference between academical hypothetical and reality. You can think and believe that Communism works, it's a whole different thing to look people who suffered and fled Communism in the face and tell them they were wrong.

As per your attempt to deflect; billionaires create better opportunities by paying premium for common services. Pricing has little to do with billionaires and in a healthy market with competition companies could price themselves out of existence, companies should not be accountable for consumer behavior (although if you can prove price gouging and scamming then they should pay retributions) People that are killing themselves to live are in extreme situations and are not the norm, you do better by them by providing them with better opportunities than by subsidizing them. The former has them likely becoming part of one or several industries and gaining skills that would make them more marketable in the job market, the latter finances mediocrity and uselessness

 

[ComradeYellow]

Yeah keep telling yourself that.  Crime, poverty, and inequality may just go away if you keep worshipping the number crunching market God.

Like @Gorth I don't have the answers but I'm willing to bet that voting against these 2 parties that got us into this is probably the best place to start.

Notice how every Democrat who runs as a progressive (medicare for all, better wages, higher learning etc) always ends up getting sucked into the corporate machinery of the party?

It's just proof that Democrats on their own are not enough to improve things or successfully tackle the Republicans, they need a 3rd party to "fuse" with.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

33 minutes ago, Orogun01 said:

you're not going to get an unbiased response from those that stayed in Cuba because they're Communists...and they don't want to be thrown into jail

You're not going to get an unbiased response from anyone because everyone has biases. A PCC bureaucrat, a refugee living in Miami who came from money, and regular jose who has to work a normal job probably won't agree on what would be best for Cuba.