Balance Polishing Mod Release 1.0

[NotDumbEnough]

I think it's worth noting that DoT's scale much more strongly with might, intellect and power level. A 35.5 base damage DoT + 17.5 base damage would hit incredibly hard at max level. On the other hand, Rangers are really bad at utilizing intellect (it's very easy to build a single class ranger that literally does not use intellect at all) so I think it's fine here.

[Elric Galad]

6 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

I think it's worth noting that DoT's scale much more strongly with might, intellect and power level. A 35.5 base damage DoT + 17.5 base damage would hit incredibly hard at max level. On the other hand, Rangers are really bad at utilizing intellect (it's very easy to build a single class ranger that literally does not use intellect at all) so I think it's fine here.

True that's why I went from 4 ticks + initial tick (30 damages) to 3 ticks + initial tick (24 damages)

Also the initial tick damage isn't increase by INT and does not benefit from double PL extension (for damages and duration).

So with 3 ticks + initial tick, only 18 damages out of 41,5 get the increased DoT total damage scaling.

DoT total damages =

                         <Initial tick damage> x (1 + 0,03 x MIG) x (1 + 0,05 x PL)

+ <base nb Tick> x <Tick damage> x (1 + 0,03 x MIG) x (1 + 0,05 x PL) x (1 + INT + 0,05 x MIG) x (1 + 0,05 x PL)

 

Overall, I think it is fine because 41,5 base damages (and 10s Quickness) allows some spamming for the sole purpose of dealing damages. Some level of spamming is necessary to make the ability interesting because spending 2 ability point on a situational ability is meh (and the Evasive Fire upgrade does not make the ability more interesting for its situational use).

But is still much less convenient to use for this purpose than its 1 Bond damages competitors (Twinned Shot and Accurate Wounding Shot) because you can't aim.

[Elric Galad]

I plan to give the similar treatment to Thorny Roots : 3 raw damages per 3s for its immobilization duration (20s). That's 23 base raw damages, but rather slow.

 

I feel that the 23 base damages that the base game adds to Binding Roots for a cost of a Tier 7 ability point (tier 7 is where it starts to be scarce) is a bit mediocre even if it's free additional damages.

Also it allows Ranger to get a long time DoT on its own for Predatory Senses, which feels a bit missing in the design of the class.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Elric Galad

[erpek]

On 2/18/2021 at 9:03 PM, MaxQuest said:

[...]

That's great)

Thank you for your work Noqn)

  

No objections)

I think we can add "Carnage and Powder Burns Indicators" to Basic package then.

But regarding "Bashing Shields" I need more time to think about numbers. Arguments are welcome.

As I assume "Carnage and Powder Burns Indicators" from @Noqn has not yet been implemented in Community Patch (nor in Deadfire Balance Polishing Mod)?

I don't see any mention of it on the CP changelog (from version 2.0).

 

I hope I'm asking in the right place (I considered asking in this thread, but the original post is from the present thread, moreover, the other thread ended in January).

[NotDumbEnough]

It's a separate mod on Nexus.

[Elric Galad]

10 hours ago, erpek said:

As I assume "Carnage and Powder Burns Indicators" from @Noqn has not yet been implemented in Community Patch (nor in Deadfire Balance Polishing Mod)?

I don't see any mention of it on the CP changelog (from version 2.0).

 

I hope I'm asking in the right place (I considered asking in this thread, but the original post is from the present thread, moreover, the other thread ended in January).

Yes, it's another mod. Somehow I didn't add its content to BPM, but please consider that BPM is tested with this small mod installed (as well as CP) so you can feel confident about adding it to your active mod list.

 

On another topic, I have just spotted that Perishing Strike is quite terrible (totally negated by CON resistance) [MECHANICS] Various Testing - Page 16 - Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Characters Builds, Strategies & the Unity Engine (Spoiler Warning!) - Obsidian Forum Community 

I'm planning to tweak it, but I see no way ot make it work as I felt it should be (at least a 30s duration of Sickened into Weakened vs CON resistant foe).

Feel free to make suggestion about it.

Default solution could be a straight 15s Enfeebled, but it would be a too convenient way to inflict this rare affliction (not OP but make other class getting Enfeebled less unique).

Edited September 19, 2022 by Elric Galad

[NotDumbEnough]

I think it should just be a straight Enfeebled affliction even if it deserves a duration nerf. The problem with the ability was always that enemies often died before the Enfeeble actually happened especially with higher intellect. So this would be two birds with one stone.

[Elric Galad]

2 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

I think it should just be a straight Enfeebled affliction even if it deserves a duration nerf. The problem with the ability was always that enemies often died before the Enfeeble actually happened especially with higher intellect. So this would be two birds with one stone.

Yes, maybe. I don't even think 15s would be a problem. It's an ability that costs 2 ressources and 2 ability point and does not bring anything more than a Full Attack with minor bonus. Not something you can spam easily anyway.

BPM Fractured Volition is 12s Enfeeble and Hobbled, but without damages. It costs 30 Focus which is about 1+ ressource (less than 2 Guiles by my standard).

I'm just affraid of spreading Enfeeble even more.

 

Another option would be a conditional effect :

- 30s Weakened vs target >50% Health for long health decrease, and long term Tier 2 Affliction (robust to resistance) to enable sneak attack/Deathblow

- 15s Enfeeble vs target <50% Health for quicker kill

[NotDumbEnough]

Perhaps a silly idea, but how about something like this:

Full attack with secondary effects in the following order (but they follow one another almost instantaneously like Jernaugh's Equalizing Burst):

15s Sickened roll against Fortitude with +40 accuracy bonus

15s Weakened roll against Fortitude with +10 accuracy bonus

15s Enfeebled roll against Fortitude with -20 accuracy malus

Assuming the rogue is dual wielding, it would be an almost surefire way of guaranteeing some sort of constitution affliction against the target (even against a constitution resistant enemy with constitution inspiration, you are still likely to at least Sicken them), with enemies that have lower Fortitude suffering more severe afflictions. While Enfeeble is a possible outcome, it is not as reliable as Cipher's Fractured Volition, which preserves its unique status.

[MaxQuest]

On 9/19/2022 at 12:53 AM, erpek said:

As I assume "Carnage and Powder Burns Indicators" from @Noqn has not yet been implemented in Community Patch (nor in Deadfire Balance Polishing Mod)?

I don't see any mention of it on the CP changelog (from version 2.0).

Carnage and Powder Burns Indicators are not yet included in CommunityPatch from nexus.

But I have added them locally, tested, and they will be included in CP with the next update.

[Elric Galad]

Previously I modded Blood Surge to 50% Rage on kills, but not from killed allies.
This change was similar to what CP did to Virtuous Triump, its Paladin equivalent.

But now, I was pointed that Blood Surge synergizes well with Berzeker's confusion to enable killing your own summons, and it really sounds something a Barbarian could do. Plus I don't like having 2 identical abilities (esp. when one is Tier 9...). 

So I will revert back blood surge to 25% Rage on any kills. But since it sounds a bit meh without summon trick, I will add a (100% chance) +15 Health on Kills secondary effect.

[patronkus]

7 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Previously I modded Blood Surge to 50% Rage on kills, but not from killed allies.
This change was similar to what CP did to Virtuous Triump, its Paladin equivalent.

But now, I was pointed that Blood Surge synergizes well with Berzeker's confusion to enable killing your own summons, and it really sounds something a Barbarian could do. Plus I don't like having 2 identical abilities (esp. when one is Tier 9...). 

So I will revert back blood surge to 25% Rage on any kills. But since it sounds a bit meh without summon trick, I will add a (100% chance) +15 Health on Kills secondary effect.

While I appreciate the +15 HP on Kills, I think Blood Surge as you have it currently is better for general play outside of abusing Chanter skeleton summons. While an interesting and unique combination, it feels a touch gimmicky and I don't know how I feel about a PL 9 feature being only really strong off a gimmick requiring either multiclassing or bringing a Chanter in the party.

[Boeroer]

As I showed with the Serafen case, it is also viable without using skeletons. Keep an eye on the Rage counter. Even if Blood Surge only procs once - that means an additional Driving Roar (only costs 1 Rage unless Corpse Eater) which in turn has the chance to produce 1 or more Rage, should it kill). I found it was more important than Prestige for sure. It is beneficial of course if the Driving Roar character is the main damage dealer but if others chime in to "soften up" the enemies first (preferably something with long range AoE capabilities I think). The Barb wants to do the killing blows (or -Roars in this case) - also because of Blood Thirst. If the Barbarian is a Berserker and doesn't want a +20 health on kill pet like Cajux then somebody in the party (can be the Berserker) should run with Abraham or another pet with +10 health on kill as party-wide effect. Or have a healer stand ready. Self damage from Berserker Frenzy is no joke at the highest levels. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

First, I plan to update the description of Blood Lust and Blood Thirst to inform that it works on killed friendly target too.

I think Blood Surge should work on the same targets. Paladin equivalent can stay "foe only", especially because it is accessible for multiclass and could degenerate with MC combos. Blood Surge does not have the same issue.

From Boeroer post, I deduce Blood Surge is powerful enough as it is and buffing it would result into a "must pick" which is especially bad for a Tier 9 ability could it narrows the builds. Adding health on Kill was IHMO a nice way to buff it without making it into a must pick.

I also try to avoid an ability to have an ability strictly superior to an other, so giving barbs a 50% Rage on any kills (making it superior to CP Paladin equivalent) feels ugly to my game designer sensitivy.

 

All in all, a compromise I could propose is :

- 33% Rage on any kill

- +15 health on any kill.

It worths a tier 9 without being a "must pick" (especially with BPM Potion of Illumination for long fights), has combo potential without absolutely require killing poor skeletons.

It is about/almost as strong as current BPM version without summons, and is quite different from Virtuous Triumph (which is always good for the sake of variety).

[NotDumbEnough]

I feel that the Sure-Handed Ila chant could use a bit of a nerf. I get the feeling that it was designed before the devs made recovery bonuses also affect reloading, and the current bonus for reloading weapons is a bit obscene, so much so that basically any sort of all gun/crossbow party can wreck everything as long as it has a chanter in it. I think a simple -25% recovery time (or even just -20%) for all ranged weapons would still be quite worth using without being obscenely powerful.

[Elric Galad]

9 minutes ago, NotDumbEnough said:

I feel that the Sure-Handed Ila chant could use a bit of a nerf. I get the feeling that it was designed before the devs made recovery bonuses also affect reloading, and the current bonus for reloading weapons is a bit obscene, so much so that basically any sort of all gun/crossbow party can wreck everything as long as it has a chanter in it. I think a simple -25% recovery time (or even just -20%) for all ranged weapons would still be quite worth using without being obscenely powerful.

I do not intend to purely nerf it, but switching to -25% recovery time will harmonize weapon with reload and without reload.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

I don't oppose a little healing for Blood Surge though. It's thematically and mechanically fitting and I don't think it would make it too strong (unless when used with skeletons, but that's an edge case with a lil' grated cheese on top).

[Elric Galad]

39 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

I don't oppose a little healing for Blood Surge though. It's thematically and mechanically fitting and I don't think it would make it too strong (unless when used with skeletons, but that's an edge case with a lil' grated cheese on top).

These little skellies truly have a Magic the Gathering Token combo feeling. 

[Elric Galad]

Just ajdusted Ajamuut's Stalking Cloak, so now it applies its effect from any Invisibility effect and Stealth (and for 1s fixed after invisbility breaks up)

Will be included in next version.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Elric Galad

[Constentin Lévine]

On 9/27/2022 at 9:25 AM, Elric Galad said:

These little skellies truly have a Magic the Gathering Token combo feeling. 

I tried Dismissal / Great Abjuration (confused) with Engoliero do Espirs on a pack of skellies, you should try too 

[Bosmer]

I really enjoyed your previous changes to Assassinate and Backstab, so very curious to see how this one plays out. I assume that Red Hand or two pistols/blunderbusses could apply stun to 2 targets, if fast enough. Maybe with driving flight pushing it to up to 4 different stuns from one invisibility/stealth. Looking forward to playing around with this!  

Edited September 28, 2022 by Bosmer
Previous problems with posting.

[patronkus]

On 5/9/2020 at 9:45 PM, Elric Galad said:

 

I think Haunting Chains from Cipher could use some love. For a PL 9 spell to be 1 target Terrified for 90 Focus while Ryngrims Enervating Terror is PL 5 and AOE and applies Weakened makes Haunting Chains look exceedingly lame in comparison. I think if it it worked like Mind Plague and bounced that'd help it out or had some subsequent lesser effect around the target like Ringleader would be good (maybe up Hobble to Immobilise for thise so the main target is Terrified and Immobilised and surrounding foes are Frightened and Hobbled).

[NotDumbEnough]

I think it's OK as long as the target does not have resolve resistance. It has inherently higher accuracy due to being a tier 9 spell and the base duration is extremely long, which means that even a graze will likely terrify an enemy for the rest of the fight.

[Elric Galad]

It is designed as a boss fight ability. The relevant part is that even Vs Res resistant it still cuts the target from its offensive abilities (as well as res and PL malus). With BPM the duration is super long, by far the longest hard cc of the game.

Also worth mentioning that cipher isn't the "Terrify specialist" class. Terrify affliction is still limited to this spell for him. But Cipher is extremely flexible with what he can cast, especially as an Ascendant, while Wiz Tier 5 is kind of crowded (Llengrath Safeguard, Spiritlance, etc...).

Edit : it also helps that cipher has a fair number of passive abilities to support such kind of spell. +10 accuracy to spell Vs will, +15% affliction duration, etc...

Edited September 28, 2022 by Elric Galad

[Elric Galad]

16 hours ago, Bosmer said:

I really enjoyed your previous changes to Assassinate and Backstab, so very curious to see how this one plays out. I assume that Red Hand or two pistols/blunderbusses could apply stun to 2 targets, if fast enough. Maybe with driving flight pushing it to up to 4 different stuns from one invisibility/stealth. Looking forward to playing around with this!  

It also enables various funky tricks such as Shadowed Hunters + Whirling Strikes. Nothing especially powerful but BPM Shadowed Hunters is good on its own and using it to optimize Whirling Strikes positioning was already an option, so that's just icing.