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Yeah, I'm pretty sure a bunch of political experts didn't think Trump could win, either. We are in uncharted territory, I'm not going to even bother trying to predict who can win the presidency. 

edit: Always good to remember the same people who call Bernie a communist were calling Obama a Muslim terrorist.

Edited by Hurlshot
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I think Dems only chance to win is stay clear of that SJW stuff and just focus on proper health care, education, reform of jail system etc. But I doubt they can let this equality bullcrap go and it will be their downfall. Most people just don't care. They want to be healthy, earn decent money and not being bothered. Dems are hellbend on bothering them on every step of their life. I mean Obama won just on Health care - even tho he done not much about it IIRC. IF I would be voting in next election I would be willing to give it to Tulsy over Trump, anyone else in Dems nominies is just trash

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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In my lifetime America has elected a hillbilly whose position was whatever was popular at the time, a pretend cowboy who started a war under false pretenses, a black guy who was believed to be a Kenyan Muslim Marxist that would force everyone to gay marry an illegal immigrant, and a dementia addled gameshow host who was previously known for firing people and saying really dumb ****. I don't think a crusty old Jew with yuropoor or sovietboo preferences winning an election is too far fetched.

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1 hour ago, Hurlshot said:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure a bunch of political experts didn't think Trump could win, either. We are in uncharted territory, I'm not going to even bother trying to predict who can win the presidency. 

edit: Always good to remember the same people who call Bernie a communist were calling Obama a Muslim terrorist.

There is a pretty big difference. I don't recall Obama supporters promising to do the very things people said they were afraid he would do. Bernie's own campaign staff is talking about gulags and riots and killing millionaires. 

"While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before"

Thomas Sowell

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1 hour ago, Chilloutman said:

I think Dems only chance to win is stay clear of that SJW stuff and just focus on proper health care, education, reform of jail system etc. But I doubt they can let this equality bullcrap go and it will be their downfall. Most people just don't care. They want to be healthy, earn decent money and not being bothered. Dems are hellbend on bothering them on every step of their life. I mean Obama won just on Health care - even tho he done not much about it IIRC. IF I would be voting in next election I would be willing to give it to Tulsy over Trump, anyone else in Dems nominies is just trash

Agree completely. The leftwingers of the Democrats epitomize what C.S Lewis was talking about in his quote about the unrelenting tyranny of moral busybodies. 

"While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before"

Thomas Sowell

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In a way I hope Bernie does win. After four years the US will still pretty much the same country it always was. No free college. No free healthcare. No locking up people in labor reeducation death FUN camps (yes that's it). Maybe the crazy lefties that are lining up behind him will get discouraged and get on with their lives. 

"While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before"

Thomas Sowell

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I couldn't stand her, but Palin probably helped as much as hurt McCain.  Folks don't remember, but McCain was polling ahead of Obama before the meltdown occurred.  I still believe there was a good chance McCain could have won the election but for the recession.  Everyone had a hand in screwing things up in 2008, so I don't really blame any one party for the recession itself, but it certainly put a lot of win in Obama's sails.  ...And Obama was always going to be a storied candidate.  Historical, even.

I won't speculate who will win the nomination except to say that I always thought that Biden had the best chance even when a lot of people I know insisted that he was going to tank immediately.  I remember one pundit said that Biden's "best day will be the day he announces" and it will be all down hill from there.  EERRHHHNNNN  Wrong answer.

For the general, you guys really better hope that Warren isn't your candidate.  She is absolutely terrible.  Yeah, her policies aren't any more idiotic than Bernie's, but at least he sells his better.  Plus, he doesn't get into the weeds trying to explain them.  He just says he'll do it because it needs to be done.  Frankly, while that's bone chilling, it works better when you're talking about pie in the sky economy crushing measures.  Don't explain it, some of your base might actually be literate enough to question the funding and then you're screwed.

Gabbard is a pariah to the activist wing of the Democrats, but she might actually help a ticket.  I won't speculate on who will win the primary, but I don't think Gabbard is a good choice as a running mate on balance.  Let's say, I don't think she helps any more than she hurts.  Plus, she's a crazy Democrat.  All of the Democrats this cycle are crazy.  Biden would be my choice right now because he's the least crazy and I think he'd be the least effective at getting his agenda through.  The worst for Democrats in the general would be Biden with a huge number of pissed off Bernie voters.  The best for the general would be Biden with solid support from the Bernie Bros.

The mod squad can delete this portion with my blessing should this cause an issue. I'm probably going to sound a bit hurt, but I'm not.  You know... I have remarkably thick skin, especially in forums.  ...And I simply never hold grudges.  At least not yet.  Maybe my Aunt, God rest her soul.  She was not always a nice person in life and it's hard not to resent her even though she's dead.  Anyhow, as to my implied cringy status as an alt and a human being.... I don't know.  I'm talking politics on a message board.  The vast majority of you haven't even met me in real life.  You'd probably get along with me just fine if you did.  Maybe not.  :shrug:  All's I'm saying is that my ideas are more important than my person and I've been pretty spot on in my assessment of politics over the years.  Especially on the Republican side of the aisle.  Honestly, I would think that would at least provide an alternate point of view.  At any rate, I imagine I'll probably keep posting, although infrequently due to time.  So, if you find me cringeworthy, at least you won't have to put up with my cringe inducing posts all that often.

One things I will say, and this is probably the important thing:  If I'm a cringy person, there's probably not much room to improve at my age. However, assuming I am an alt, and I'm not saying that, but *if* I am, then I swear I'm the last alt of an original poster I would have assumed had been long forgotten by now anyway.  Hypothetically speaking, of course.

"Not for the sake of much time..."

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3 minutes ago, MedicineDan said:

I couldn't stand her, but Palin probably helped as much as hurt McCain.  Folks don't remember, but McCain was polling ahead of Obama before the meltdown occurred.  I still believe there was a good chance McCain could have won the election but for the recession.  Everyone had a hand in screwing things up in 2008, so I don't really blame any one party for the recession itself, but it certainly put a lot of win in Obama's sails.  ...And Obama was always going to be a storied candidate.  Historical, even.

I won't speculate who will win the nomination except to say that I always thought that Biden had the best chance even when a lot of people I know insisted that he was going to tank immediately.  I remember one pundit said that Biden's "best day will be the day he announces" and it will be all down hill from there.  EERRHHHNNNN  Wrong answer.

For the general, you guys really better hope that Warren isn't your candidate.  She is absolutely terrible.  Yeah, her policies aren't any more idiotic than Bernie's, but at least he sells his better.  Plus, he doesn't get into the weeds trying to explain them.  He just says he'll do it because it needs to be done.  Frankly, while that's bone chilling, it works better when you're talking about pie in the sky economy crushing measures.  Don't explain it, some of your base might actually be literate enough to question the funding and then you're screwed.

Gabbard is a pariah to the activist wing of the Democrats, but she might actually help a ticket.  I won't speculate on who will win the primary, but I don't think Gabbard is a good choice as a running mate on balance.  Let's say, I don't think she helps any more than she hurts.  Plus, she's a crazy Democrat.  All of the Democrats this cycle are crazy.  Biden would be my choice right now because he's the least crazy and I think he'd be the least effective at getting his agenda through.  The worst for Democrats in the general would be Biden with a huge number of pissed off Bernie voters.  The best for the general would be Biden with solid support from the Bernie Bros.

The mod squad can delete this portion with my blessing should this cause an issue. I'm probably going to sound a bit hurt, but I'm not.  You know... I have remarkably thick skin, especially in forums.  ...And I simply never hold grudges.  At least not yet.  Maybe my Aunt, God rest her soul.  She was not always a nice person in life and it's hard not to resent her even though she's dead.  Anyhow, as to my implied cringy status as an alt and a human being.... I don't know.  I'm talking politics on a message board.  The vast majority of you haven't even met me in real life.  You'd probably get along with me just fine if you did.  Maybe not.  :shrug:  All's I'm saying is that my ideas are more important than my person and I've been pretty spot on in my assessment of politics over the years.  Especially on the Republican side of the aisle.  Honestly, I would think that would at least provide an alternate point of view.  At any rate, I imagine I'll probably keep posting, although infrequently due to time.  So, if you find me cringeworthy, at least you won't have to put up with my cringe inducing posts all that often.

One things I will say, and this is probably the important thing:  If I'm a cringy person, there's probably not much room to improve at my age. However, assuming I am an alt, and I'm not saying that, but *if* I am, then I swear I'm the last alt of an original poster I would have assumed had been long forgotten by now anyway.  Hypothetically speaking, of course.

whats so crazy about Gabbard?

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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Just now, Chilloutman said:

whats so crazy about Gabbard?

I really shouldn't have put it that way.  It's unfair to say crazy just because of policy disagreements.  What I should have said is that she's got quite liberal policy positions.  She's kind of an odd duck, but I actually think she seems like a decent person.  Yang also strikes me as a decent guy.  Actually, I think most people who make it this far would be charming to meet.  Warren is the exception.  I don't hate her as a person.  I don't know her, but she's got a Hillaryesque taint.

"Not for the sake of much time..."

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Accusing people of being alts is a bit of a running joke here. I wouldn't worry overmuch.

 

2 hours ago, Hurlshot said:

edit: Always good to remember the same people who call Bernie a communist were calling Obama a Muslim terrorist.

Appeals to emotion are easier and quicker than writing 10,000-word essays on complex topics. And since no one's checking at the ballot box...

Edited by 213374U

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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I think Sanders should be given the chance to explain a change of heart, but he did suggest nationalizing both the banking and energy sectors.  Granted, I think the most damning statements were from the 70s, so we should allow for a change of heart.

"Not for the sake of much time..."

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1 minute ago, MedicineDan said:

I think Sanders should be given the chance to explain a change of heart, but he did suggest nationalizing both the banking and energy sectors.  Granted, I think the most damning statements were from the 70s, so we should allow for a change of heart.

Honestly I'd be a lot more concerned if people didn't change over the course of 40+ years. 

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Spotting Alts used to be a bit of a game around here. A long time ago. Pay it no mind. Post as much as you like. All opinions and posters are welcome here MD. 

"While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before"

Thomas Sowell

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4 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Spotting Alts used to be a bit of a game around here. A long time ago. Pay it no mind. Post as much as you like. All opinions and posters are welcome here MD. 

is it you, oby?

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I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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13 minutes ago, Chilloutman said:

is it you, oby?

Da!

"While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before"

Thomas Sowell

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1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

In a way I hope Bernie does win. After four years the US will still pretty much the same country it always was. No free college. No free healthcare. No locking up people in labor reeducation death FUN camps (yes that's it). Maybe the crazy lefties that are lining up behind him will get discouraged and get on with their lives. 

 

we so often disagree with gd, but will observe a kinda/sorta agreement on the bernie observation. is a fundamental and pervasive misconception 'bout what Presidents do in our system. trump, for first two years, had both senate and house backing and nevertheless accomplished almost nothing worth repeating.  anybody else still waiting on the big infrastructure program? heck, infrastructure investment had bipartisan support and we still got nothing. sure, for a guy self promoting as a deal maker such impotence should be emasculating, but one must also needs recognize how the President, any President, can't do the vast majority o' all the things they promise while running for office w/o Congress actual passing laws. 

yang wants to give $1000 to every adult? ok, beyond fact such stuff hasn't worked as planned in europe and alaska, where is money gonna come from to make such a plan work? is only so many dod dollars which may be diverted from disaster rebuilds and levee maintenance projects even if yang goes with emergency powers declaration and hopes Courts move as slow as they have with trump. 

warren has more comprehensive plans than yang, but is a freaking house o' cards which is utter doomed 'cause real world intrudes on her fantasies. can get the healthcare and education support but only if her tax scheme is adopted as envisioned and certain economic thresholds is achieved. alter one card and the whole thing tumbles. even w/o a looming recession worries, is no way tax scheme o' warren gets passed by Congress w/o serious compromises, which results in fails and compromises o' all those programs dependent on money which is no more real than the stuff hasbro prints for their monopoly game.

is same story for most all the other candidates. 

particular with current polarization which makes bipartisan support for any paradigm shifting program unlikely if not impossible, voters is nevertheless looking to vote for a messiah rather than a President. is stoopid. is wrong. is doomed.

oh, and tulsi may not be crazy, but we don't get her campaign 'cause running as an islamophobe who cozies up with some o' the world's more notorious authoritarians while expressing homophobic personal beliefs and attacking the Church of Obama on fox with some regularity is no way to secure the democratic nomination. only things she gots gong for her is:

1) pretty much everybody hates hillary these days, so getting hillary hate is a win for tulsi

and

2) most vets want an end to "endless wars"... though tulsi is actual in favor o' endless drone strikes and special forces assassinations, so whatever.

regardless, Presidents aren't meant to do what most voters want 'em to do. thank goodness for the disconnect. we can't imagine how much worse the last three years mighta' been if trump coulda' indulged all his erratic and impulsive urges.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited by Gromnir
too many "trump"

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

There is a pretty big difference. I don't recall Obama supporters promising to do the very things people said they were afraid he would do. Bernie's own campaign staff is talking about gulags and riots and killing millionaires. 

Eh, that's the same sort of thing where you have media claiming Trump wanted senators 'murdered' because he wanted 'heads on pikes' for potential disloyalty in the impeachment. The media that does that does that because they hate Trump*, not because they seriously believe he literally wanted, say, Mitt Romney hanged, disemboweled, torn apart by wild horses and the pieces distributed for public display to Los Angeles, Seattle, Salt Lake City or New York with the head surmounting the Capitol building attached to a weapon borrowed from the Swiss Guard. He just wants it done figuratively. Same with Bankers-against-the-wall stuff from Bernie supporters.

*Indeed, should Bernie get the nomination it will be interesting to see how the media handle it. He's a greater existential threat to the Jeff Bezoses of the world than Trump, so probably a Bloomberg Corporate Party run supported by CNN/ WaPo etc. I'd suspect they'll try everything and anything to stop Bernie getting the nomination though, and if he doesn't get an outright majority of delegates Someone else will get in via superdelegates.

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freedom dividend is a bit like freedom fries?

again, yang needs Congress to get his taxes. we'll just tax amazon and other companies voters instant recognize as sooper successful and rich is not a particular well thought out plan. as already mentioned, alaska already has a freedom dividend which hasn't worked the way yang promises. check out alaska permanent fund dividend. $1000 per adult money is not gonna sudden appear, and pretend like increased well being and hoped for better education is gonna natural bolster economy is just fantasy nonsense. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps in spite o' criticism o' ubi from hoover institute folks and fact it has never yet worked... anywhere, am in favor o' collecting more data. human nature and politics is some o' the biggest hurdles seen in ontario canada and finland and other places where tests petered out and died. yeah, the economic problems o' a multi trillion dollar a year program is daunting, but is true that the manufacturing jobs which has been a pillar o' america's labor force for so long is gone and not coming back while automation and ai will replace even more jobs in years to come. this is an idea (an old idea which first gained traction in the late 18th century btw) which needs to be explored. turn the US into the experiment to test such w/o dealing first with all the problems? dumb. dumb on a grand scale.

 

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Bernie's own campaign staff is talking about gulags and riots and killing millionaires. 

Wasn't it just that one guy ?

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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