Chilloutman Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 bit tired of that colonialism excuse, India was colony and it does not seem they need to move to Europe to feed themselves. I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
Hurlshort Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, Chilloutman said: bit tired of that colonialism excuse, India was colony and it does not seem they need to move to Europe to feed themselves. It seems like you are misinformed about India.
Chilloutman Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 59 minutes ago, Hurlshot said: It seems like you are misinformed about India. enlighten me I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
Zoraptor Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Most Indian emigration is not to continental Europe, certainly. It's mostly to anglophone countries, and is mostly legit. But, it's not really a fair comparison and the underlying reason given is basically plain wrong. India may not be massively rich and powerful on a per capita basis, but they have a truly monumental amount of capita. Also, India has a long and storied history of famines brought about by, well, British colonialism and them selling cash crops or exporting food while other areas in India starved. That's stopped since the Brits got kicked out because now agricultural excess in one region can be used to help out in drought or whatever, and India is big enough to resist most of the pressures that see similar things happen in Africa. That's hardly a great example of a country pulling itself up by its bootstraps after colonialism though; it's more an example of the evils of colonialism being corrected when you're powerful enough to tell your colonists to FOAD and mean it. Which the vast majority of Africa isn't, hence them growing cash crops mandated by the IMF and relying on imports of cheap subsidised Euro/ US staples. Most of the current refugees/ economic migrants are also not refugees because they are literally unable to feed themselves. If you're going to Europe from, say, Ghana or Congo or even Mali you'd typically have a multi thousand km trip involving long journeys by vehicle or ship, have to pay people smugglers or bribe border guards etc etc. You're not likely to do well making such a trip with no money and being hungry in the first place since walking you'd be looking at months of travel through impoverished or desert areas where you aren't going to get food. It's the same with war refugees, if you have the money you can simply bribe border guards or people smugglers to get you in to Europe. If you don't... welcome to a squalid camp in Jordan/ Turkey/ Lebanon/ Iraq/ Syria/ Pakistan/ Iran and good luck if you try to walk into Europe without paying someone something. Most refugees or economic migrants to Europe are not dirt poor, at least not for their countries of origin, they just about have to have money. 2
Gromnir Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) "The Global Hunger Index 2018 ranks India at 103 out of 119 countries on the basis of three leading indicators -- prevalence of wasting and stunting in children under 5 years, under 5 child mortality rate, and the proportion of undernourished in the population." https://www.indiafoodbanking.org/hunger 3000 children in india die of hunger every day. however, if it makes you feel better, india did improve its ranking by 1 in 2019. is now 102... but only 117 countries were evaluated in 2019. poverty has decreased in india in recent years, but has actual increased in many rural predominant agriculture dependant areas. edit: india shares most of border with china, pakistan and nepal, and is not like you can get a bunch o' people to hop in a rickety boat in the arabian sea hoping to make it to europe. HA! Good Fun! Edited February 25, 2020 by Gromnir ps 2 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
MedicineDan Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Recent posts seem to be about Trump's visit to India. It's a smart move for him and the United States. If India is truly suffering as much as Grom claims, and I agree, then it's to their benefit to court the United States and it's in our interest to work with them. I really just popped my head in really quick because I know a lot of Republicans who think Bernie simply can't win the general. My brother-in-law in particular is gleeful that Trump is pre-ordained to smite Bernie and his bros. I don't think that's true. I think Sanders has baggage, but I think he most certainly *can* win. In 2016, Clinton lost the election. Trump didn't win it. The demographics according to exit polling and, more importantly, the voting statistics don't support the idea that Trump brought out a huge number of extra voters. It supports that Hilary failed to do so. If Sanders can bring out new people, and the results are mixed in the small sample we have in this cycle, he could win this thing. I know this is a bad question for this crowd, many of whom are probably annoyed by my posts, but do mainstream Democrats want Sanders? Do you guys hate Trump so much you'd rather see Sanders in office? Trump didn't really change our politics. Tax cuts and immigration have been political footballs for decades. Other than his desire to tweet apparently every single hour, Trump has done nothing to bring lasting harm to the presidency. Even his comportment, which is sometimes downright funny but often abysmal, is a symptom of the ailments in our society that pre-existed his administration. Sanders is a true revolutionary. I don't think he could get his agenda through, but even winning the presidency would mean something far different than Trump winning. Trump didn't blow things up. Sanders will. FTIW I did read the response to my previous post, and I actually appreciate the give and take, but I can't always do justice to the arguments in a timely manner and I don't want to bring them up several days or more after the fact. "Not for the sake of much time..."
Chilloutman Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 23 minutes ago, Zoraptor said: Most Indian emigration is not to continental Europe, certainly. It's mostly to anglophone countries, and is mostly legit. But, it's not really a fair comparison and the underlying reason given is basically plain wrong. India may not be massively rich and powerful on a per capita basis, but they have a truly monumental amount of capita. Also, India has a long and storied history of famines brought about by, well, British colonialism and them selling cash crops or exporting food while other areas in India starved. That's stopped since the Brits got kicked out because now agricultural excess in one region can be used to help out in drought or whatever, and India is big enough to resist most of the pressures that see similar things happen in Africa. That's hardly a great example of a country pulling itself up by its bootstraps after colonialism though; it's more an example of the evils of colonialism being corrected when you're powerful enough to tell your colonists to FOAD and mean it. Which the vast majority of Africa isn't, hence them growing cash crops mandated by the IMF and relying on imports of cheap subsidised Euro/ US staples. Most of the current refugees/ economic migrants are also not refugees because they are literally unable to feed themselves. If you're going to Europe from, say, Ghana or Congo or even Mali you'd typically have a multi thousand km trip involving long journeys by vehicle or ship, have to pay people smugglers or bribe border guards etc etc. You're not likely to do well making such a trip with no money and being hungry in the first place since walking you'd be looking at months of travel through impoverished or desert areas where you aren't going to get food. It's the same with war refugees, if you have the money you can simply bribe border guards or people smugglers to get you in to Europe. If you don't... welcome to a squalid camp in Jordan/ Turkey/ Lebanon/ Iraq/ Syria/ Pakistan/ Iran and good luck if you try to walk into Europe without paying someone something. Most refugees or economic migrants to Europe are not dirt poor, at least not for their countries of origin, they just about have to have money. what was the point of this comment, you basically stated Indians are doing well after colonialism, Africa is not because India is bigger??? I have some reasoning but it might not be politically correct one I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
Gorth Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Chilloutman said: bit tired of that colonialism excuse, India was colony and it does not seem they need to move to Europe to feed themselves. Tell that to the 1.4 million Indians living in the UK (not including people who are of partial Indian heritage). There is a reason why London is having a reputation the best Indian curry in the world “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Chilloutman Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Just now, Gorth said: Tell that to the 1.4 million Indians living in the UK (not including people who are of partial Indian heritage). There is a reason why London is having a reputation the best Indian curry in the world considering there is 1.4 billion of them in India, it does not sounds that much xD. Also they are there legally I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
ktchong Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Zoraptor said: But nowadays the refugee problem is largely Africans... Also a consequence of US and EU foreign policies. Libya, when it was the most prosperous, progressive country in Africa and Qaddafi was in charge, used to be the gatekeeper that blocked/prevented African migrants from passing through into Europe. Then America and the NATO invaded, destabilized and destroyed Libya, (which is now ruled by brutal warlords and has open slave markets;) now the floodgate is wide open, and African migrants can pass through Libya into Europe. We have a word for that kind of scenario. It is called KARMA. Yes, IMO African and Middle Eastern migrant crises will destroy Europe -- or, at the very least, fundamentally transform the cultures and demographics in Europe. However, can't say I feel sorry for White Europeans... they brought the karma upon themselves. Sure, it has always been America leading the charge in invading, occupying, destabilizing and destroying countries of brown people, but then the NATO and Europeans have always been there every step of the way. Links: The Christian Science Monitor: How the fall of Qaddafi gave rise to Europe's migrant crisis MSNBC: How Libya became the gatekeeper of Africa's migrant crisis BBC: How Libya holds the key to solving Europe's migration crisis Edited February 25, 2020 by ktchong 1
Chilloutman Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Just now, ktchong said: Also a consequence of US and EU foreign policies: Syria, when it was the most prosperous, progressive country in Africa and Qaddafi was in charge, used to be the gatekeeper that blocked/prevented African migrants from passing through into Europe. Then America and the NATO invaded, destabilized and destroyed Syria, (which is now ruled by brutal warlords and has open slave markets;) now the floodgate is wide open, and African migrants can pass through Syria into Europe. We have a word for that kind of scenario. It is called KARMA. agree though I am kinda interested who will be there to blame once Western 'empire' collapse I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
ktchong Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) Edited February 25, 2020 by ktchong
Zoraptor Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Gromnir said: 3000 children in india die of hunger every day. Yep, and while that isn't great it is still a pretty massive improvement over the colonial system. Not only is it an improvement in relative terms when considering the difference in population between now and under British rule, but it's an improvement in absolute terms too. The average annual deaths from starvation under British rule was more than that, despite there there being around 1/6th the population for most of British rule. 2 hours ago, Chilloutman said: what was the point of this comment, you basically stated Indians are doing well after colonialism, Africa is not because India is bigger??? I have some reasoning but it might not be politically correct one The main point is that 'feeding themselves' is a bit of a red herring, those who cannot feed themselves generally aren't in a position to go to Europe whether they're in Africa or Asia. Peripherally, no, I wouldn't say that India is (necessarily*) doing well in absolute terms, though it does have impressive economic growth. It's just not a good/ fair comparison, to put it in perspective the entire African continent has slightly less population than India, spread across 54 countries. That huge population brings a lot of innate influence- negotiating, say, a trade agreement with India is far more attractive than with, say, Burkina Faso or CAR, and India is far more likely to get a favourable agreement too. As such you cannot easily compare their performance to each other, they're simply too different and you'd expect India to inherently perform better than an average African country. The fairer comparison would be to the smaller bits of the British Raj, Pakistan and Bangladesh, albeit even they'd still be the #1 and #2 most populated countries in Africa. There are a decent number of Pakistani refugees/ economic migrants, often claiming to be Afghans since that's better for claiming refugee status, and economically there are multiple African countries doing better than Pakistan or Bangladesh. *it's difficult to say one way or the other, you can only really compare them to China and while China's economic path is better than India's that has been at the cost of other factors like personal freedoms.
Chilloutman Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 i bet there was kids starving to death in UK when India was colonized by them. Its always so hard to argue here, people just try to dodge all the arguments and find smallest nitpicks to degrade any argument of opposition. You are of course entitled to your opinion. I gave up long time ago to change any ones mind. Reality is just that, India is doing much better than 90% of Africa. Both were colonies of European powers. You can believe its because of some magical favourable trade agreements if you want to - I don't. China economics is not only at cost of some personal freedoms, Its fueled by deaths of millions of people I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
Skarpen Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 25 minutes ago, Zoraptor said: The main point is that 'feeding themselves' is a bit of a red herring, those who cannot feed themselves generally aren't in a position to go to Europe whether they're in Africa or Asia. I don't think feeding themselves is about individuals physically incapable of doing so. Rather it's that as a country there is something missing there. Look at Zimbabwe they chased away white farmers and claimed their land and farms, so they have all the infrastructure to feed themselves, yet they now are bringing farmers back because they are starving. The farmers are not bringing anything new besides themselves, infrastructure is there. So what gives?
213374U Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 7 hours ago, Chilloutman said: i bet there was kids starving to death in UK when India was colonized by them. Its always so hard to argue here, people just try to dodge all the arguments and find smallest nitpicks to degrade any argument of opposition. You are of course entitled to your opinion. I gave up long time ago to change any ones mind. Yeah, pretty sure no one is trying to change your mind anymore either. There's no convincing people that won't even try to discuss arguments presented to them and instead go "lalala I'm not listening". Don't feel too bad, though. It's not your fault. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Elerond Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 8 hours ago, Chilloutman said: i bet there was kids starving to death in UK when India was colonized by them. Its always so hard to argue here, people just try to dodge all the arguments and find smallest nitpicks to degrade any argument of opposition. You are of course entitled to your opinion. I gave up long time ago to change any ones mind. Reality is just that, India is doing much better than 90% of Africa. Both were colonies of European powers. You can believe its because of some magical favourable trade agreements if you want to - I don't. China economics is not only at cost of some personal freedoms, Its fueled by deaths of millions of people So cost of personal freedoms and deaths of millions is good in India, but bad in China?
Chilloutman Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Elerond said: So cost of personal freedoms and deaths of millions is good in India, but bad in China? last time I checked India was democracy. Are you seriously comparing Gandhi to Mao? xD I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
Amentep Posted February 25, 2020 Author Posted February 25, 2020 I thought that Elrond is referring to recent incidents in India where elements of the government seem to want to marginalize the muslim population (including trying to change historical fact, like who created the Taj Mahal), but I could be wrong. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
Malcador Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 9 hours ago, Chilloutman said: You can believe its because of some magical favourable trade agreements if you want to - I don't. So what do you think the cause is then ? Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Chilloutman Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Malcador said: So what do you think the cause is then ? NGOs providing free food without demanding working ethics and education 1 I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
HoonDing Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 African at least don't just lob dead bodies in the river or rape women every 25 seconds. Won't even mention defecation habits. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Gfted1 Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 So can we extrapolate from that, that every single female in China has been sexually assaulted at least twice? 1 "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
ktchong Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) YIKES. This happened just last night. Joe Biden showed clear signs of Alzheimer's. "One of things I'm proudest of... is getting passed the Paris Climate Accord. I'm the guy who came back after meeting with Deng Xiaoping..." Deng Xiaoping left office in 1992 and has been dead for 28 years, long before climate change became an issue. "My name is Joe Biden. I'm a Democratic candidate for the United States Senate. Look me over. If not, vote for the other Biden." He forgot he was running for President and against Bernie Sanders! Edited February 25, 2020 by ktchong
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