Politics First Contact

[Gfted1]

29 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

I question whether your wife and adult child will go along with your plan to buy a mine. It might take 24 years if you only have your own freedom dividend.

My wife would, shes a starry eyed dreamer like me. My kid would probably keep it all. But I don't want no stinkin mine anyway. I wonder what it would cost to get a modest volcano lair off the ground?  

[ktchong]

As someone who consumes news from the US, China, and all over the world, I would say the Western media is more dishonest than Chinese state media — yes, you read it right, Chinese state media. As far as I have seen, Xinhua and People’s Daily do not make up — or have not yet made up — “fake news”, (not that I get my news exlusively from them.) Chinese state media simply censors and selectively not reports any unfavorable news. Which is actually not too different from what the Western establishment media like the CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, BBC, Guardian, etc. have been doing for years and years. Some examples: ABC buried and killed an Jeff Epstein expose four years ago, NBC killed a Harvey Weinstein news story, CNN and MSNBC are currently “erasing” Bernie Sanders in a media blackout, the Western media simply ignores the Yellow Vest protests in France and many other on-going protests against US-backed and Western-backed regimes. The US mainstream establishment media has always censored and controlled news about Palestinians (who are almost never on the news, and only shown negatively when they are reported) and Saudi Arabia (almost always reported positively — the Saudi royal family actually owns a lot of shares in many US news and media corporations, so that figures.)

I would say the Western media is even WORSE than Chinese state media. Just recently, the Western media just made up lies about the US-backed coup in Bolivia, the conflicts in Syria, polls that showed Bernie Sanders as the number-one frontrunner, i.e., one of CNN’s own polls showed that Bernie Sanders was number one in the poll, but in the news they blatantly lied and just swapped the orders of Bernie and other candidates in that poll; and then, of course, CNN just just completely ignored and not mentioned Bernie when reporting that "fixed" poll. It was shocking how blatant CNN was, and it did not just happened once “by mistake”. CNN straight-out LIED about their own polls, on TV, repeatedly and multiple times. So it was deliberate. And, of course, both CNN and MSNBC straight-out lied about the coup in Bolivia.

As far as I know, even Chinese state media does not straight-out lie like CNN and MSNBC. The worse China has done is they censor news. They just do not report anything unfavorable. China has not (yet) made up lies about stuff in the news. On the other hand, Western media has entered that “fake news” territory – and just made up stuff that is not even true.

IMO, the best and most credible news sources are independent news like the Intercept and Grayzone. Russia Today is more trustworthy than CNN and MSNBC. Xinhua and People Daily are also more credible — because they do not make up stuff; they just censor out stuff that they do not want to report. On the other hand, establishment media like CNN and MSNBC just make up stuff. That is just LYING. And they are doing it more and more; CNN especially has been getting brazen lately. I do not watch Fox News, but I think even Fox News does not sink to that level. Sure, Fox News have talking heads spilling right-wing talking points, but we all know they are speaking their opinions and not reporting news. CNN (especially) and MSNBC, on the other hand, just straight-out make up stuff. It is shocking.

Edited November 19, 2019 by ktchong

[Gfted1]

Imo, "the media" is the #2 cabal in the world for controlling information and people, right behind religion. And we love and legally protect them for it. 

[Hurlshort]

Western media is composed of a ton of different voices that all contradict each other and work to flip narratives in a way that benefits them. There isn't a consensus, and they aren't a single entity. It is also our best option for holding people in positions of power accountable. Chinese media is controlled by the people in power fully. It is completely censored. Western media might be a mess, but it isn't censored. 

[Zoraptor]

Lack of formal censorship makes lying worse, not better, since you're lying out of self interest, stupidity, cupidity or base greed rather than because you'd literally be thrown in jail or killed for telling the truth.

And in completely unrelated news, amazingly after 9 years or whatever the rape case against Julian Assange is now considered too weak to proceed with. Which coincidentally clears the way for an extradition to the US. Nobody, certainly no credible journalist or media organisation, could have forseen this completely normal and unpredicted procedure (apart from Assange and his tinfoil  hat wearing conspiracy theorising supporters, of course, who'd predicted exactly that for... 9 years).

[HoonDing]

Let's get rid of the ****ing judges, Congress, the media and Rosie O'Donnell.

[Elerond]

33 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Lack of formal censorship makes lying worse, not better, since you're lying out of self interest, stupidity, cupidity or base greed rather than because you'd literally be thrown in jail or killed for telling the truth.

And in completely unrelated news, amazingly after 9 years or whatever the rape case against Julian Assange is now considered too weak to proceed with. Which coincidentally clears the way for an extradition to the US. Nobody, certainly no credible journalist or media organisation, could have forseen this completely normal and unpredicted procedure (apart from Assange and his tinfoil  hat wearing conspiracy theorising supporters, of course, who'd predicted exactly that for... 9 years).

It is considered weak because it is based on testimony of witness who has started to lose key details after 9 years. So by hiding for 9 years from accusations against him, Assange most likely succeed to guarantee his extradition to US and will even more likely get sent to prison for several years. Where in case that he would had just went to face accusations in Sweden, he would even case that he would had found guilty only faced probation and had been much better protected against extradition to US.

[Hurlshort]

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

Lack of formal censorship makes lying worse, not better, since you're lying out of self interest, stupidity, cupidity or base greed rather than because you'd literally be thrown in jail or killed for telling the truth.

We may not have formal censorship (I mean, we do, but it fits a fairly narrow field) but we do have accountability in the western media. If you outright lie about someone, you can be civilly liable. So it isn't the wild west, necessarily. Of course, many in the media are experts in the idea of half-truths. But honestly the vilification of the media by the government is so blatant, I don't understand how it is working so well. I am skeptical of trusting most media sources, but I sure as hell don't trust the government.

[Zoraptor]

The reason it works is fairly simple: western media holds itself up as being the best and fairest, so evidence of wrongdoing leads to a disproportionate drop in trust. As time goes on more evidence of wrongdoing accumulates for more and more viewpoints so more and more people loose that trust- and trust once lost is very hard to regain.

Now, I'll freely admit that the media doesn't claim to be perfect, but you have to beat an admission of fault or even simply getting something wrong out of them with a broom handle and they would far prefer to either ignore it or if pressed simply change the story and pretend they never got it wrong in the first place. In part that is of course because some will use them getting things wrong as evidence of them being 'fake news' and not a real journalism; but they probably do themselves more damage trying to suppress it than by admitting to fault as more people will be convinced of foul play by a cover up than by an admission of a mistake. That's also why outlets like RT have a credibility advantage despite being Russian state news- people don't expect them to be honest, and all they have to do is make the rest look dishonest to win. It's not a winning strategy in the internet world, but western media has always been a useful tool for corporations and governments and they will run its credibility into the ground (while trying to shore it up via 'trusted news site' lists, fact checks that are really opinion checks and manipulating or legislating to influence google indexing, facebook, twitter etc to exclude non approved sources).

Probably 80% of the trouble western media gets itself into is acritically parroting press releases. Unsurprisingly, most press release are PR rather than journalism and thus skewed massively towards the viewpoint of the entity releasing the statement and may not come close to reality on the ground.

Take Bolivia for example. Acritically report that police etc refused to fire on protesters and Evo voluntarily steps down as a consequence in what was totally not a coup. The same police who refused to fire on protesters under orders from Evo now... kill 23 protesters in 5 days under order from an unelected 'moderate' 'President' who... wants to deport the indigenous population from all cities? Hmm, just a touch of cognitive dissonance there. Of course you have to dig for those facts, but anyone who does does not end up with a positive view of the media.

1 hour ago, Elerond said:

It is considered weak because it is based on testimony of witness who has started to lose key details after 9 years. So by hiding for 9 years from accusations against him, Assange most likely succeed to guarantee his extradition to US and will even more likely get sent to prison for several years. Where in case that he would had just went to face accusations in Sweden, he would even case that he would had found guilty only faced probation and had been much better protected against extradition to US.

Yeah, nah. You forget that the original prosecutor- way back in 2010- also decided the case was too weak to proceed with, then, and it was only picked up by Ny once Assange had left Sweden. That was what provoked the whole mess. The reasons the case were weak in 2010 had nothing to do with time elapsed, obviously, and everything to do with the two accusers deciding to make complaints and coordinating their accusations after finding out Assange had boffed both of them in a short space of time; and tampering with evidence by deleting text messages where Assange was mentioned positively after the supposed assaults took place. In any sensible jurisdiction that would have been more than enough to get the case permanently nixed, but instead it got reinstated for some reason, after Assange had left, only to be dropped now when there is still a year left on the statute of limitations.

If that happened in Russia/ China/ Syria/ [bad country] there would be zero doubt expressed that it was trumped up.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Zoraptor

[Chilloutman]

in other news, Epstein guards being arrested...

[Agiel]

I swear, Nunes was one step away from calling Vindman a "bezrodnyi kosmopolit."

[Skarpen]

56 minutes ago, Agiel said:

I swear, Nunes was one step away from calling Vindman a "bezrodnyi kosmopolit."

I thinks it's Lt. Col. Vindman to you  or Ukraine Defense Minister. How often does US military get offered such positions by foreign powers?

[Guard Dog]

15 hours ago, Hurlshot said:

 I am skeptical of trusting most media sources, but I sure as hell don't trust the government.

You are soooo close to entering the Tower of Wisdom. You are knocking on the front door even now! All you have to do is say the password: "What cannot be trusted should not be empowered". Come on in Hurlshot.... there is beer in the fridge!

[Malcador]

8 hours ago, Agiel said:

I swear, Nunes was one step away from calling Vindman a "bezrodnyi kosmopolit."

Wonder how Nunes' fight with the cow is coming along.

[smjjames]

3 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

You are soooo close to entering the Tower of Wisdom. You are knocking on the front door even now! All you have to do is say the password: "What cannot be trusted should not be empowered". Come on in Hurlshot.... there is beer in the fridge!

Ah, but is it an IVORY Tower of Widsom?

(Yes, I'm messing with you. )

Anyways, geeze, the impeachment defense is coming down to splitting hairs nanoscopically..... Also, Trump massively throwing Giuliani under the bus when?

Edited November 20, 2019 by smjjames

[Hurlshort]

3 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

You are soooo close to entering the Tower of Wisdom. You are knocking on the front door even now! All you have to do is say the password: "What cannot be trusted should not be empowered". Come on in Hurlshot.... there is beer in the fridge!

Hmm, what kind of beer?

[Gfted1]

List of wheat free beers.

[Hurlshort]

17 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

List of wheat free beers.

Thanks, some of those are solid. But I plan on ignoring my wheat allergy a bit.

[Guard Dog]

43 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Hmm, what kind of beer?

Budweiser and Miller lite on the ground floor. If you want to good stuff (IPA, Belgian Style, and cream stout) you need to come upstairs. There is a passphrase to go up to the next level. Not sure if you are ready for that one yet though. "What cannot be trusted must be disposed of"

[Bartimaeus]

I won't lie: I took a perverse pleasure in seeing this picture.

[ktchong]

"Democracy" and "freedom" are not going to fix Hong Kong's problems.

The actual source of Hong Kong's problems is the worsening housing crisis and class inequality, which was created by by four particular cartel/oligarch/tycoon families that control the economy in Hong Kong.

When the UK was about to hand Hong Kong back to China in 1997, the UK simply "sold" or "transferred" all the lands in Hong Kong to those four family/privately-owned companies that, of course, are closely connected to the UK. (They were and still are privately-owned so China would not be able to buy public shares in them and take over those companies -- basically, the UK was already planning and plotting on how to sabotage and undermine China in Hong Kong before the handover.)

Since then, those four families have grown to become powerful cartels/oligarchs/tycoons in Hong Kong. They have leveraged their near-monopoly of Hong Kong real estates into controlling many other industries and aspects of Hong Kong, including the local media and press.  And they have been using their control of Hong Kong economy to make  lives worse and worse for Hong Kongers, who then blame their problems on China.

Here is a breakdown and explanation:
 

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by ktchong

[ktchong]

And, Hong Kongers were also fueled by disgusting, overt hatred and racism against Chinese -- which is ironic because Hong Kongers are in denial and detached from the facts that they are Chinese themselves.   On the other hand, the US and the West are more than happy to fuel the racism as long as it furthers their anti-Chinese agenda:

 

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by ktchong

[ShadySands]

Free Hong Kong

[Zoraptor]

Yeah, but... the concentration camps, orwellian re-education, seizure of children and organ harvesting in Xinjiang is several orders of magnitude worse than what's happening in HK. HK is lucky it's a port with a lot of ex pats and foreign businesses or they would have been Tiananmened months ago.

Kind of funny though, Han Mandarin speakers genuinely do seem to believe that everyone hates them, because... Han are the best, and people are envious of their superiority.

[Agiel]

 

You can't un-hear Sting singing this at the start of that Dire Straits song Money For Nothing.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Agiel