Politics: The Final Frontier

[smjjames]

51 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I dont buy this notion of a " puppeteer " surreptitiously controlling society, governments are elected through transparent and free and fair elections in most Democracies

You make a choice which political party you want to vote for based on there policies and there successful and or reasonable  implementation of these policies.....if you dont like your choice then you can vote for someone else

Most other things that define our societies are enshrined in Constitutions, the rule of law and order and are impacted by policies that sometimes work and sometimes fail. But there is no great secret or cover-up around how  these things work or should work....there are no  " puppet masters "  unless someone can give me practical examples of who these people   and organisations are ?

Illuminati! Sarcasm, obviously.

Though for some and if you go into a philosophical discussion on free will, the answer would be God.

[BruceVC]

15 minutes ago, smjjames said:

Illuminati! Sarcasm, obviously.

Though for some and if you go into a philosophical discussion on free will, the answer would be God.

 That indeed would be a complicated and deep debate ....one of those debates I enjoy having when Im stoned 

[Skarpen]

3 hours ago, Maedhros said:

We just live in different worlds. I don't see how any puppeteer is bad for my life, as long as he's benign. Not that I belive in a puppeteer, we chose our system because we like it. If we disliked it, we'd change it.

I'm sure the people runing away to save their children from your bening government are thrilled they  have all those freedoms. 

[Maedhros]

1 hour ago, Skarpen said:

I'm sure the people runing away to save their children from your bening government are thrilled they  have all those freedoms.  

That's your response?

If you're not abusing your children, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Children have rights too, and should have the freedom to grow up without abusive parents. There's a lot of propaganda going on in Poland, and in hardcore Christian communities (both Norwegian and foreign) about barnevernet, you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet. Does the system work perfectly? No, mistakes have been made for sure. The people who work there are only human after all. However for the most part they do a lot of good, and have saved thousands of children from growing up in dire households. You'll also be pleased to know that changes are in the process of being made, and that the number of children being taken from their parents have gone down a lot. Having worked with them myself (and having a girlfriend who moved to a foster home with their help when she was young), I believe I have some knowledge in this matter.

----

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/pound-sterling-brexit-no-deal-boris-johnson-us-dollar-euro-exchange-rate-a9026451.html

The pound struggling due to the possibility of a no-deal Brexit. Great news for me considering I'm going there next week!

Edited August 2, 2019 by Maedhros

[Skarpen]

22 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

If you're not abusing your children, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Children have rights too, and should have the freedom to grow up without abusive parents. There's a lot of propaganda going on in Poland, and in hardcore Christian communities (both Norwegian and foreign) about barnevernet, you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet. Does the system work perfectly? No, mistakes have been made for sure. The people who work there are only human after all. However for the most part they do a lot of good, and have saved thousands of children from growing up in dire households. You'll also be pleased to know that changes are in the process of being made. Having worked with them myself (and having a girlfriend who moved to a foster home with their help when she was young), I believe I have some knowledge in this matter.

Does European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg issuing warnings to Norway count as propaganda?

You seem to get the idea that "mistakes have been made for sure. The people who work there are only human after all." but you don't see the root of the problem. Barnevernet got to much power in the name of "greater good" and it ended just like it always does in human rights violations.

There is no, never was or ever will be an organization run by people in benevolent way once they obtain power over any group of other people. 

That's why we should never give any power or let go of any freedoms for any reasons and especially not for "greater good".

Edited August 2, 2019 by Skarpen

[Gfted1]

If you don't like the UK government, just wait a few hours.  

[Maedhros]

25 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

Does European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg issuing warnings to Norway count as propaganda?

You seem to get the idea that "mistakes have been made for sure. The people who work there are only human after all." but you don't see the root of the problem. Barnevernet got to much power in the name of "greater good" and it ended just like it always does in human rights violations.

There is no, never was or ever will be an organization run by people in benevolent way once they obtain power over any group of other people. 

That's why we should never give any power or let go of any freedoms for any reasons and especially not for "greater good".

So we should just let kids suffer instead, because we're too afraid to make mistakes? I think it's far more important to learn from mistakes, and try to fix what didn't work. I know what your "fix" would be, and I'll disagree with you again...so there isn't really any point in continuing this discussion, we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Skarpen]

23 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

So we should just let kids suffer instead, because we're too afraid to make mistakes? I think it's far more important to learn from mistakes, and try to fix what didn't work. I know what your "fix" would be, and I'll disagree with you again...so there isn't really any point in continuing this discussion, we'll have to agree to disagree.

So, your solution is let kids suffer so the kids don't suffer? 

Solution is simple. Take the power from the authority, reinstate basic human rights and freedoms and ensure that any government institution is liable for their actions and people can find justice in the court of law and not authoritarian institution that is judge, jury and executioner all in itself.

[Zoraptor]

Wow, a Pole lecturing Norway on children's rights. Not like Poland's current government is running interference for the biggest child molestation conspiracy in the world over literal centuries- the Catholic Church. Any child protection agency is going to make mistakes as the situation is fundamentally one where, frequently, there is no good answer. The Catholic Church on the other hand has made a whole lot of deliberates and apparently the only defence available is that it's all a commie/ Soros plot to discredit the pillars of Polish society.

And in other news, the US has formally announced their withdrawal from the INF Treaty. Unsurprising, and not really much effect after the US abrogated it years ago with Aegis Ashore- not that you'd know that from media coverage as I haven't seen a single source mention it- and the Russians have (probably, at least theirs isn't proven unlike Aegis Ashore) done the same. Joins the growing list of international agreements the US has withdrawn from, though at least this time there's an argument it isn't a unilateral withdrawal. And, of course, a reminder that "China isn't bound by it" is a load of bollocks as an excuse too, since the only US territory the Chinese could hit would be Guam, and maybe the Aleuts.

[Skarpen]

13 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Wow, a Pole lecturing Norway on children's rights. Not like Poland's current government is running interference for the biggest child molestation conspiracy in the world over literal centuries- the Catholic Church. Any child protection agency is going to make mistakes as the situation is fundamentally one where, frequently, there is no good answer. The Catholic Church on the other hand has made a whole lot of deliberates and apparently the only defence available is that it's all a commie/ Soros plot to discredit the pillars of Polish society.

I think you should read more, because you know that it's ringing but you do not know in which church. In last months we had a few high profile cases against Catholic church priests due to widely acclaimed reportage about child abuse in the church. So next time do your homework before you smear a country like that.

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Skarpen

[Guard Dog]

Because what is yours isn't really yours if the government wants it: https://reason.com/2019/08/01/neighborhood-activists-would-rather-preserve-toms-diner-than-let-its-owner-retire-in-peace/

[Skarpen]

21 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Because what is yours isn't really yours if the government wants it: https://reason.com/2019/08/01/neighborhood-activists-would-rather-preserve-toms-diner-than-let-its-owner-retire-in-peace/

Must be those benign rulers I keep hearing about 

[Zoraptor]

2 hours ago, Skarpen said:

I think you should read more, because you know that it's ringing but you do not know in which church. In last months we had a few high profile cases against Catholic church priests due to widely acclaimed reportage about child abuse in the church. So next time do your homework before you smear a country like that.

I don't need to read any more at all. The Polish Government- paleoconservative as it is- is running interference for a bunch of kiddie fiddlers because it's less damaging to them to covertly support paedophiles than to criticise and punish the source of their ideological power. Mostly though, you as a Pole have no ground to stand on criticising other countries for their treatment of children when your institutions have failed spectacularly for decades to protect them.

The Polish Government is terrified of a Ireland like situation where after their scandal all the pillars of paleoconservative catholic values have crumbled in a decade. Hence the interference campaign insinuating criticism of the RCC is the work of commies, degenerates (oh irony) and Sorosian outside agencies. The Polish people, on the other hand, include many who aren't exactly happy with cosying up to molesters, and includes those who have worked hard to expose and stop the abuse- and some who'd happily sweep it under the rug and hope it goes away.

(FTR, there's plenty to criticise about New Zealand's record in protection of children as well. Everyone has bad child protection practices. Fundamentally if child protection is involved the situation has no good resolution most of the time and it's just minimising the bad)

[Skarpen]

5 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

I don't need to read any more at all. The Polish Government- paleoconservative as it is- is running interference for a bunch of kiddie fiddlers because it's less damaging to them to covertly support paedophiles than to criticise and punish the source of their ideological power. Mostly though, you as a Pole have no ground to stand on criticising other countries for their treatment of children when your institutions have failed spectacularly for decades to protect them.

You might want to provide some evidence for that, because you are talking nonsense. The current government is in place for the last 4 years so claiming they did something for decades is ridiculous. Previous one was liberals for 8 years and earlier mostly left leaning parties coalitions.

The current situation with the catholic church is about adult people coming out about abuse they suffered 30+ years ago when Poland was still under communistic regime and not free country we are now. So this is another thing you would need to read up about.

In conclusion claiming that coming from Poland I can't criticize an institution that was sentenced for Human Rights violation because some catholic priests did abuse children in Poland is false equivalence. 

I think your statement is coming mostly from ignorance rather than prejudice, so I advise to read up more about the subject.

[Malcador]

14 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Because what is yours isn't really yours if the government wants it: https://reason.com/2019/08/01/neighborhood-activists-would-rather-preserve-toms-diner-than-let-its-owner-retire-in-peace/

Usually they get the developer to preserve the facade or something here, so sale goes through still. Certainly is something to be said for your city retaining older buildings.

[Volourn]

City should not be involved this. You own the property you should be allowed to do what you want with it. 'Preserving buildings because of 'history feelz' is ggarbage and only Nazis support such slavery.

[Malcador]

54 minutes ago, Volourn said:

City should not be involved this. You own the property you should be allowed to do what you want with it. 'Preserving buildings because of 'history feelz' is ggarbage and only Nazis support such slavery.

I've missed you Volo

[Guard Dog]

Owning a diner is a life sentence if the building is aesthetically pleasing. Or someone just likes the pancakes. If it were me I'd do a Howard Roark on it if they wouldn't let me sell. 

Spoiler

For you educated typed who have read a book or two. Yes the irony of the reversal of the conditions between the Fountainhead and Tom's Diner is not lost on me. The statist  desire to preserve aesthetic and prevent conformity IS the opposite of what happens in the book. Still, what belongs to Tom belongs to Tom.  He should be the sole arbiter of what becomes of it.

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Guard Dog
Bad grammar

[ShadySands]

I just don't read Rand. I have a hard enough time getting through the books I'm actually interested in 

Thanks for the breakdown

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

35 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

I just don't read Rand. I have a hard enough time getting through the books I'm actually interested in 

Thanks for the breakdown

A three year old screaming "mine" is a breakdown of every Ayn Rand work, and better written to boot. She was also a snitch who reported people to the feds, so that slag can get stuffed.

[Hurlshort]

I'm not sure if this should go in the politics thread, but there was another mass shooting today by an angry young white male. This time at a Texas Wal-Mart in El Paso, and it sounds like the casualty list will be very high.  

[Malcador]

27 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

I'm not sure if this should go in the politics thread, but there was another mass shooting today by an angry young white male. This time at a Texas Wal-Mart in El Paso, and it sounds like the casualty list will be very high.  

20 dead. Took him alive too, sort of a shame.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

31 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

I'm not sure if this should go in the politics thread, but there was another mass shooting today by an angry young white male. This time at a Texas Wal-Mart in El Paso, and it sounds like the casualty list will be very high.  

I'll bet my hat he's some flavor of alt-right incel that ranted on 4chan or reddit.

[Guard Dog]

1 hour ago, KaineParker said:

I'll bet my hat he's some flavor of alt-right incel that ranted on 4chan or reddit.

From what I've read you are pretty close to the mark

[HoonDing]

Time to ban whites from entering the country until we figure out what the hell is going on.