Lets Get Political

[Gfted1]

I wonder how much more advanced of a species we would be if people spent even 10% of the energy judging inward as they do outward.

[Malcador]

12 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

You didn't really know  what you were getting with Trump.

Hm, I think you did.  He's a bull**** artist as one talking head labelled him early on and you can get a sense of the man quite well - I still like Bowden's anecdote about him vs a water fountain pump :lol: People just didn't care.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

13 hours ago, ShadySands said:

I wonder how many voters abstained? Especially from the swing states since they are the only ones that matter. While I'm at it I wonder if there is a way to tell the impact of losing the Voting Rights Act.

In total 40(-somerhing)% of eligible voters didn't show up. No idea of demographics, swing states, or any impact of the VRA loss. It's funny because when you think about it in terms of actual votes, Trump was in 3rd place.

[smjjames]

I think I recall that it was more or less homogenous across the US, or at least I don't remember anything mentioned about any particular states or anything that jumped out as an outlier. While one could get a rough estimate of the demographics by doing some math, it's harder to get accurate demographics because you can't directly ask them as one would with entry/exit polls.

Edited June 11, 2019 by smjjames

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Gfted1 said:

I wonder how much more advanced of a species we would be if people spent even 10% of the energy judging inward as they do outward.

you obvious ain't catholic or jewish. 

based on personal family experience, we would conclude a birthright o' soul crushing guilt and self recrimination is less likely to result in Homo Superior than it is to lead to a strong case for seeking professional counseling.

HA! Good Fun!

[smjjames]

4 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

you obvious ain't catholic or jewish. 

based on personal family experience, we would conclude a birthright o' soul crushing guilt and self recrimination is less likely to result in Homo Superior than it is to lead to a strong case for seeking professional counseling.

HA! Good Fun!

Shouldn't Protestants and Islam also be lumped in there? Catholics and Judaism don't have a monopoly on that kind of thing in organized religion.

Edited June 11, 2019 by smjjames

[Gromnir]

1 minute ago, smjjames said:

Shouldn't Protestants and Muslims also be lumped in there? Catholics and Judaism don't have a monopoly on that kind of thing in organized religion.

that's for you to decide... and judge. we specific noted personal experience.

HA! Good Fun!

[smjjames]

Yeah, I know you said 'from personal experience', was just sort of thinking to myself 'why single out those two?' (probably because personal experience). Anyhow, I think we should veer away from that particular religion tangent and it doesn't sound like you want to continue on that tangent anyway, nor do I really have any interest in continuing it.

RERAILING IN PROGRESS

 

[Guard Dog]

If I could teach the human race one thing it would be this: With the exception of non-adult children that share your DNA or are your legal responsibility, the only behavior you should concern yourself with or are responsible for is your own. Don't worry about what everyone else is up to. If they are not doing it to you or yours it's none of your business! Just think of how that simplifies our politics. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Guard Dog
And another thing

[Gfted1]

Its one of humanities fatal flaws. Weve been trying to dictate to one another since we crawled out of the surf. Everyone is born with perfect clarity of how someone else should act, but amazingly also has zero insight into their own behavior. Seriously though, its just another coping mechanism like alcohol / drugs / religion. It makes people feel "good".

[smjjames]

17 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

If I could teach the human race one thing it would be this: With the exception of non-adult children that share your DNA or are your legal responsibility, the only behavior you should concern yourself with or are responsible for is your own. Don't worry about what everyone else is up to. If they are not doing it to you or yours it's none of your business!

So, people shouldn't be concerned about serial killers as long as their relative isn't a victim? That's the problem with your logic, it's not so black and white (pun not intended) as that. I know it's mainly tongue in cheek, but still gonna point out the flaw in logic. Even hardcore libertarians wouldn't want politicians completely and utterly apathetic to their needs.

Anyhow, Biden flips on China, so, I'm like, 'does he really?' How much of it was just Biden putting his foot in his mouth as he often does and how much of it is Biden really blowing off China as a threat, I don't know. The world isn't the bipolar Cold War system anymore, welcome to the (technically second, since it went on a hiatus during the second half of the 20th century) age of Great Powers.

Ninjaedit:

9 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Its one of humanities fatal flaws. Weve been trying to dictate to one another since we crawled out of the surf. Everyone is born with perfect clarity of how someone else should act, but amazingly also has zero insight into their own behavior. Seriously though, its just another coping mechanism like alcohol / drugs / religion. It makes people feel "good".

^Very much this.

Edited June 11, 2019 by smjjames

[Gromnir]

perhaps our background has given us a different pov. 

hobbes suggested state o' nature is, "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.” is wrong on one count. state o' nature is not solitary. the only way hairless apes survived to become the dominant species is 'cause they are communal. nature is your mother, but she is a b!tch who is trying to kill you every single day. go it alone w/o any modern conveniences and then realize how terrifying is nature. w/o modern conveniences and tools, tools only made possible by generations o' community, gd is always one small infection away from death. heck, sprained ankle might be enough to kill gd if he is doing solo and w/o legacy o' community contribution.

so how does a community o' humans, sans modern tools, survive a dakota winter? every member o' the community gotta pitch in and pull their weight. one guy doing his own thing could literal mean death for others. you, as a member o' the community, got responsibilities, and punishments is natural result o' dealing with those who ain't contributing accordingly.

furthermore, you got groups o' people forced to live intimate close for survival and w/o any kinda formal or informal system o' courtesy, the community relations become strained. do you got personal ownership? if not, then what stops bob from taking the clothes julie made. perhaps some things is communal while others is more personal? a whole set o' unspoken rules is gonna develop to make living with others possible. 

and biggest threat next to nature? fellow man. gd wants to go it alone in state o' nature? perhaps he avoids infections and droughts and disease and survives long enough to teach another generation his correct values. the thing is, given man's nature, how likely is other people gonna allow gd to live solitary, and peaceful? probable is pretty good actually, but all it takes is one small group o' folks who ain't as high minded as gd to take all his stuff, his family and his life away from him. so even if pre-enlightened gd believes he can survive nature, he probable knows he cannot survive his fellow man... and he is likely quite willing to help come up with rules and customs which punish and discourage bad people. 

etc.

fact we got rules for behaviors o' others is not some kinda evil or curse to be lamented. such stuff is why hairless apes survive dakota winters and north african deserts and droughts and floods and pestilence in places which initial appear as eden but is always having snakes (metaphorical and literal) hiding in the grass. survived a couple hard winters when young. can recall more than a month with nothing but bone and ketchup soup... and jiffy pop. that were with modern tools to aid. am not even able to imagine how intimate death musta' seemed for humans for thousands o' years, when the darkness just beyond the longhouse door were filled with terrible monsters, real and imagined. 

not so different today. am depending on others for power and food and medical treatment, and if even one o' the literal thousands o' folks who is contributing to our survival daily, folks we never see, screw the pooch, we could end up dead or worse. breakdowns in formalized courtesy nowadays don't just end with a cain and abel situation neither. got freaking atomic bombs and bio weapons, not to mention the damage one nutjob with a handgun can exact 'pon his fellow man if he forgets untold generations worth o' formalized courtesies.

am wanting our personal liberties protected, 'cause community can go too far in desire to protect and regulate. even so, am recognizing hobbes were mostly right. life were poor, nasty, brutish and short... but has never been solitary. we survive or fail together. like it or not.

end wall o' text and get back to tearing down rotted boards from trellis before it tops 100F.

HA! Good Fun!

[injurai]

It's getting rather objectivist up in here.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 hours ago, smjjames said:

Shouldn't Protestants and Islam also be lumped in there? Catholics and Judaism don't have a monopoly on that kind of thing in organized religion.

In my experience growing up Catholic around mostly protestants, no where near to the same degree. If you take the teachings of the Catholic church to heart you're going to spend most of your life feeling guilty to the point of neurosis. Protestants seem to play much more loosely in practice.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

If I could teach the human race one thing it would be this: With the exception of non-adult children that share your DNA or are your legal responsibility, the only behavior you should concern yourself with or are responsible for is your own. Don't worry about what everyone else is up to. If they are not doing it to you or yours it's none of your business! Just think of how that simplifies our politics. 

GD people should try to emulate my behavior, I dont judge anyone except for 

• anti-Western sentiment 
• anti free market\capitalism with no viable alternatives
• old school Communists
• religious extremism
• extreme left and right wing ideology
• unfair criticism of the banking sector 
• Vegans ( one of my bothers is one and I do love him but they want to destroy the established gastronomic system )
• people who dont believe in the rule of law and order
• people who immigrate to other countries but constantly complain  and criticize that country 
• people who support Russia but dont actually live there
• people who live in European countries and wont accept necessary austerity but rather blame Germany and France
• trade union movements that follow anachronistic and outdated ideologies  
• unreasonable lack of patriotism
•  people who wont discuss, realistic, inclusive  meaningful and sustainable societal problems but play various "cards " like the race, white male privilege , colonialism and numerous other cards ...I find those debates myopic and counter productive

I can think of a few more but my point should be clear. I dont really judge people....much  

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

If I could teach the human race one thing it would be this: With the exception of non-adult children that share your DNA or are your legal responsibility, the only behavior you should concern yourself with or are responsible for is your own. Don't worry about what everyone else is up to. If they are not doing it to you or yours it's none of your business! Just think of how that simplifies our politics. 

If we were all atomized individuals or even families that would be fine, but society isn't simply the sum of individuals it contains, it's also their interactions with each other and the environment. I have to be concerned with what others are up to else I could end up with dirty water, no electricity, a dead planet, a slew of romcoms, and other tragedies that negatively impact what I'm doing.

[Chilloutman]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

GD people should try to emulate my behavior, I dont judge anyone except for 

• anti-Western sentiment 
• anti free market\capitalism with no viable alternatives
• old school Communists
• religious extremism
• extreme left and right wing ideology
• unfair criticism of the banking sector 
• Vegans ( one of my bothers is one and I do love him but they want to destroy the established gastronomic system )
• people who dont believe in the rule of law and order
• people who immigrate to other countries but constantly complain  and criticize that country 
• people who support Russia but dont actually live there
• people who live in European countries and wont accept necessary austerity but rather blame Germany and France
• trade union movements that follow anachronistic and outdated ideologies  
• unreasonable lack of patriotism
•  people who wont discuss, realistic, inclusive  meaningful and sustainable societal problems but play various "cards " like the race, white male privilege , colonialism and numerous other cards ...I find those debates myopic and counter productive

I can think of a few more but my point should be clear. I dont really judge people....much  

 

Give us a signal if you are held prisoner Bruce

[213374U]

7 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

If I could teach the human race one thing it would be this: With the exception of non-adult children that share your DNA or are your legal responsibility, the only behavior you should concern yourself with or are responsible for is your own.

you're not the boss of me

[Gfted1]

I judge people that use bullet point. I genuinely lol'd at the "commies".

[bringingyouthefuture]

What are we talking about?  Leaving people alone so they can do whatever they want?  That makes about as much sense as denying climate change at this point ... you can do it but your not helping.

[Gorth]

7 hours ago, BruceVC said:

GD people should try to emulate my behavior, I dont judge anyone except for 

• anti-Western sentiment what parts of Western sentiment? Consumerism? Materialism? Capitalism? Corporate rule/Lobbyism?
• anti free market\capitalism with no viable alternatives the Scandinavian model works nicely. More countries should try it
• religious extremism does no religion count as extreme?
• unfair criticism of the banking sector you can't criticize it enough. bunch of (beeps) gambling away other peoples money and lives while lining their own pockets
• people who dont believe in the rule of law and order resident anarchist reporting for duty
• people who immigrate to other countries but constantly complain  and criticize that country Australian politics sucks. They are so busy selling out of Australia to the Chinese and the Indians it's sickening, Vote buying at its finest. Enough to make any Roman senator envious
• people who support Russia but dont actually live there and people who support England, USA, Whatever, but don't actually live there?
• unreasonable lack of patriotism patriotism is just an attempt at making nationalism sound nicer. and lack of it is good
• deleted a handful that didn't actually seem to apply

I can think of a few more but my point should be clear. I dont really judge people....much  

Judge away!

[Gorth]

2 hours ago, 213374U said:

you're not the boss of me

You really need to clear out your message box some day so people can message you

[Agiel]

President Donald Trump is locked in too-close-to-call races with any one of seven top Democratic challengers in the 2020 presidential race in Texas, where former Vice President Joseph Biden has 48 percent to President Trump with 44 percent, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today.

 

https://poll.qu.edu/texas/release-detail?ReleaseID=2625

 

I was of the opinion over the past few years that Texas is in danger of becoming a purple state inside of two decades, not because of "more brown people" but because of an influx of college-educated people seeking lower costs of living in the state (anecdotally I have a cousin who works for Blizzard who has dreams of transferring to the Austin office for that very reason). Perhaps losing Texas might be the wake-up call the GOP needs to stop shooting itself in the stump where its foot once was.

[Pidesco]

2 hours ago, Agiel said:

 

 

 

https://poll.qu.edu/texas/release-detail?ReleaseID=2625

 

I was of the opinion over the past few years that Texas is in danger of becoming a purple state inside of two decades, not because of "more brown people" but because of an influx of college-educated people seeking lower costs of living in the state (anecdotally I have a cousin who works for Blizzard who has dreams of transferring to the Austin office for that very reason). Perhaps losing Texas might be the wake-up call the GOP needs to stop shooting itself in the stump where its foot once was.

The GOP has been doubling down on its uneducated, religious, rural base for 40 years, it isn't going to stop now. The reasons that strategy hasn't destroyed them already are gerrymandering, and that the Senate and the Presidency both favor votes from low population density areas. As far as the popular vote is concerned I don't see how Trump isn't defeated in an unprecedented fashion. Of course, the electoral college will make everything a lot tighter in practice. Still, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the 2020 election didn't deliver Mondale level results for the GOP.

[smjjames]

3 hours ago, Agiel said:

 

 

 

https://poll.qu.edu/texas/release-detail?ReleaseID=2625

 

I was of the opinion over the past few years that Texas is in danger of becoming a purple state inside of two decades, not because of "more brown people" but because of an influx of college-educated people seeking lower costs of living in the state (anecdotally I have a cousin who works for Blizzard who has dreams of transferring to the Austin office for that very reason). Perhaps losing Texas might be the wake-up call the GOP needs to stop shooting itself in the stump where its foot once was.

It's already a reddish-purple hue now, but yeah, it's becoming more of a swing state due to a combination of those factors.

As for it being a wakeup call to the GOP, maybe not when Texas is still competitive. It'd take a more total loss for it to be a wakeup call. Speaking of, the state GOP party in California is on life support and it doesn't seem like they're trying to change. Granted, they can't move far from the national party.

Maybe losing Texas to the Presidency a few times would be more of a wakeup call than Texas merely going purple and becoming a swing state like Florida. Though as Pidesco said, they've been doubling and tripling down on the same strategy for 40 years and retreating to their strongholds rather than adapt.

Edited June 12, 2019 by smjjames