Politics and Statesmenship: A Forum Special Report

[Boeroer]

Funny. Trump is horrible because he dodges the draft.  Muhammed Ali is a hero for doing the same exact thing. LMAO

 

 

P.S. Ali > Trump largely unlike Trump Ali is anti SJW Nazi.

You mean Ali (who's an anti SJW Nazi) dodged lots of punches while Trump doged his draft? Interestingly... nonsensical.

[Volourn]

"ali didn't actual dodge anything though, did he?  draft dodge is traditional when avoidance is achieved through dishonest or evasive maneuvers. muhammad ali very public applied for conscientious objector status and were initially denied.  ali were arrested when he refused to respond to his draft summons, and had his boxing career effective suspended while his case wound its way through the courts... with the boxer achieving an eventual 8-0 victory before SCOTUS-- thurgood marshal recused. no slipping away to canada or phony medical excuse."

 

He did dodge. he was 'drafted'. he told them **** off. He got punished for it.

 

Trump did dodge 'cause of Daddy even though technically, legally, Trump didn't dodge. He just used a technicality to get out of it.

 

 

For the record, I'm on both their side's for this issue. Everyone should tell  those in power to stick it up their ass as much as possible.

 

Again, find it funny, because Ali LOATHES the SJW Nazi mindset. And, if he were alive today they would be hating on him for the things he's said.

[ktchong]

[Gromnir]

 

 

 

For the record, I'm on both their side's for this issue. Everyone should tell  those in power to stick it up their ass as much as possible.

 

 

if such is what you admire, then trump should doubly offend 'cause he had an opportunity to tell those in power to stick it wherever, but instead he took the weasel's route and slunk away as quiet and meek as possible.  a doctor signs off on what would seem to be a condition which lasted as long as the vietnam conflict, and no longer. converse, ali public refused service on basis o' religious reasons. literal hurled his gold medal in a river, and fought all the way to the SCOTUS.  ali took a stand. ali fought. ali embraced american spirit o' civil disobedience, and against all odds won... not that winning made the fight more meaningful.

 

trump didn't complain or fight power. trump didn't suffer for his stand 'gainst power. trump used power to his benefit.

 

even vol must see the difference.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

"ali public refused service on basis o' religious reasons."

 

I don't give a crap about religion. Nice try, though.

 

I support though. Their methods differ but the result is the same. DEAL WITH IT.

[Pidesco]

That has to be one of the silliest takes ever Volo, even from you.

[Boeroer]

See? Dubious reputation.

[BruceVC]

 

Funny. Trump is horrible because he dodges the draft.  Muhammed Ali is a hero for doing the same exact thing. LMAO

 

 

P.S. Ali > Trump largely unlike Trump Ali is anti SJW Nazi.

You mean Ali (who's an anti SJW Nazi) dodged lots of punches while Trump doged his draft? Interestingly... nonsensical.

 

 

Not nonsensical, more like "volosensical "  

 

But to be fair to volo he does makes good points at times and makes good calls , this is just not one of them 

[smjjames]

Redacted Mueller report just got released! https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf

[Malcador]

US continuing to have hair up its ass over Cuba I see.

[Gfted1]

Maybe its residual butthurt over the Cuban missile crisis? Otherwise, I dont get it either.

[Bartimaeus]

A few fun headlines from the redacted Mueller report I've seen so far: "Barr says he ‘disagreed’ with Mueller on whether Trump obstructed justice ahead of redacted report release" ...Which is to say, Mueller believed Trump did obstruct justice, .

 

"The President's efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests." Alternative way of framing this: "The woman's efforts to have her husband killed were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the hitman who the woman hired declined to carry out orders or accede to her requests."

 

"President Trump reacted negatively to the special counsel's appointment. He told advisors that it was the end of his presidency, sought to have Attorney General Jeff Sessions unrecuse from the Russia investigation and to have the Special Council removed, and engaged in efforts to curtail the Special Council's investigation and prevent the disclosure of evidence to it, including through public and private contacts with potential witnesses"

[smjjames]

That's certainly a good alternate framing, No idea whether it'd work as a legal reasoning though for Trumps attempts.

Edited April 18, 2019 by smjjames

[ShadySands]

I think I've finally got it. Barr looks like a cross between Elton John and John Goodman.

 

I don't mean that as an insult or anything but it's been bugging me since his mug has been on the news all day. Now I can finally put that niggle to rest.

[Hurlshort]

I thought Barr came across very well. I'd like to think this whole thing will be put behind us now, but I'm sure everyone will find a way to spin it to fit their own agenda.

[Bartimaeus]

His principal summary that Trump and every media outlet were using to declare "NO COLLUSION, NO OBSTRUCTION" was completely and utterly bogus in the face of reading the actual (his redacted!) report, and he has continued to try to obfuscate matters since then up until today. Just today, he insisted that Trump "fully cooperated" with Mueller...even though he repeatedly refused to be interviewed. That's a very gracious interpretation of "full cooperation". How has he come across well?

[Guard Dog]

What if it's all true? What if Trump DID obstruct justice, the FBI, DID try to "take him out" the Clinton campaign DID buy phony intel from Russia, Obama DID know everything about all of it and did nothing?  I find that the most believable of all. That are all a pack of s--t covered rats infesting the same sewer trying t tell you how much the other rats stink!

 

In other news Pete Buttigieg is floating the idea of "mandatory" public service for everyone. Either in the military or some other yet-to-be-created-but-will-cost-a-country-with-out-of-control-spending-a-f-----g-lot organization. Boy the Democrats are really fond of the word "mandatory" aren't they? But it's nice to see them circling back around to their roots. The party of secession and slavery is proposing slavery in 2020. 

[Bartimaeus]

What if it's all true? What if Trump DID obstruct justice, the FBI, DID try to "take him out" the Clinton campaign DID buy phony intel from Russia, Obama DID know everything about all of it and did nothing?  I find that the most believable of all. That are all a pack of s--t covered rats infesting the same sewer trying t tell you how much the other rats stink!

Reportedly, Obama went to Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to try to form a strong bipartisan response to Russian election meddling, but the Senator did not have much interest and all we got was a watered down and Russia-unspecific message instead. If the FBI did "try to take him out", then that should be investigated; if the Clinton campaign did try to collude with Russia, that should be investigated as well. If there is an actual legal basis for investigation, I'm of the opinion that it should be investigated. After all, the Mueller probe already more than paid for itself (literally, in terms of money regained by the federal government from those whom it convicted). On the matter of Trump, I think Mueller, a Republican himself, has shown himself to be an exemplary and even-handed investigator and prosecutor, and he has a record before this Russian probe that speaks to that excellence both in terms of his actual work as well as the praise he drew from all sides of the political spectrum when he was appointed. If there's not enough evidence for collusion, there's not enough evidence for collusion, and I'm fine with that. Trump clearly had corrupt intent regardless, but we knew that even before this report - you don't ask for foreign countries to dig up dirt on your political opponents on stinking Twitter, but clearly, his supporters did not care and he got elected anyways, so corrupt intent is just part of his game. Regardless, Mueller clearly intended to give this report to Congress to make the judgement themselves, since it's standing Department of Justice policy - although not exactly law - that the president cannot be indicted except by Congress. But as I've said before, I think we're at the point where Republican congressional leaders simply don't care so long as their voting base doesn't care, so unless this does something drastic to Trump's approval numbers (unlikely), we've still got two more years of this madhouse klepto/kakistocracy. Edited April 19, 2019 by Bartimaeus

[Gromnir]

 Obama DID know everything about all of it and did nothing?  I find that the most believable of all. 

you know well how we ain't an obama fan.  that said, if you got a foreign power whose main goal appears to be gaslighting in an effort to undermine american confidence in the electoral process, then fiery and public rebukes o' putin and russia does little more than aid in such efforts.  putin prefered a trump presidency, 'cause donald is a trainwreck, but ultimate it didn't matter who won as long as americans lost confidence in the process.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9DHw9xdAys

 

we mentioned earlier how the soviet reflexive indulged in false equivalency arguments, and putin and putin defenders is using the same playbook.  the russians must be laughing themselves silly today 'cause not only did they succeed in undermining confidence in the outcomes o' national elections, but with trump daily attacks on doj and fbi, a significant number o' americans became increasingly suspicious o' the folks who were doing the investigating.

 

obama having the russian shenanigans quiet investigated w/o public undermining the integrity o' the electoral process sounds like the one reasonable course o' action given putin's goals.

 

am not suggesting obama did everything right, but gd does have a kinda general government distrust which borders on paranoia at times, so maybe he is seeing villains where is only ordinary fumbling and mistake.  we would happily throw obama under the bus if we thought there were a legit reason to do so, but we don't see it.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

we've still got two more years of this madhouse klepto/kakistocracy.

 

Yep, then we trade if for another one just like it. Or it gets extended. It doesn't matter. 

[Bartimaeus]

I half disagree. I'm unsure what a Pence administration would look like in the face of a Trump impeachment/resignation - maybe it would humble Republicans a little and help bring them somewhat out of the crazy train they've been riding since at least Trump became the nominee, and we can all move a little more the center. With a now Democratic House majority, I'm not as worried about a semi-competent Republican administration as I was when Republicans controlled both the House and the Senate. On the other hand, Trump continuing to be an eternally scandal-ridden malus on Republicans nationwide (for the most part) probably makes a Democratic trifecta come 2020 all that much more likely...but I'm not sure if I really want that, either. All I know is that I'm thankful Trump was such a trainwreck that Republicans got so little done with their 2 years of a trifecta compared to what they very well could've with an even semi-competent party leader. Trump's (and McConnell's) biggest legacy will be the courts, no doubt, but he didn't need a trifecta for that - just the Senate.

[Guard Dog]

Gromnir you know the problem with dismissing fumbling incompetence? A bad outcome not the product of malice, is still a bad outcome.  

 

As far as undermining confidence in the outcomes of elections, the D & R have been doing that themselves. They could return to civility at any time and effectively neutralize any such attempt from Russia or anyone else. Not holding my breath. The name of the game now is win at any cost because there is so much power at stake. Like I've been saying for damn near 20 years, THAT is the problem. Take away the power of the government and you solve all your problems at once. You probably create others but you have to pick your poison. The less control over our lives and country our government has the less we have to worry about who is controlling our government.

 

But you know what Grom, it doesn't matter. We're cooked and done. That it isn't imminent does not make it less inevitable. Unless the next executive and congress begins to deal with spending in some way that does not involve currency inflation, and God knows I don't see that happening, then we as a country are f----d. Crypto currency is a whole lot of nothing important right now but it will become very important in the semi-near future as an inflation proof alternative for international trade. The only thing that has saved us is the prominence of the dollar. Take that away and we will not survive the fools who think they run this place. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Guard Dog

[smjjames]

GD, I think even you would prefer a stable one compared to this

[Guard Dog]

 On the other hand, Trump continuing to be an eternally scandal-ridden malus on Republicans nationwide (for the most part) probably makes a Democratic trifecta come 2020 all that much more likely...but I'm not sure if I really want that, either. 

You do not. We are all safest then they are all trying to screw each other over. Give one tribe of rats total dominion over the sewer and they will start screwing us. 

[Guard Dog]

GD, I think even you would prefer a stable one compared to this

I would prefer predictable. What we have is actually pretty stable. There is a lot of sound and fury and plenty of light from the burning dumpster to read the Washington Post telling us all how much everything sucks. But his worst impulses are blocked by the House and the Courts or his own hubris and incompetence. I'm sleeping a lot better with the House in the hands of the Democrats and the Senate in the hands of the Republicans. IMO that is the ideal split. We do best when they all neutralize each other.

 

And i'd still rather have his judges over anything Hillary f-----g Clinton would have appointed.