Politics and Statesmenship: A Forum Special Report

[Zoraptor]

No I claim they're right because they're experts and you provided no evidence they were wrong. s/a is fundamentally faster firing than manual. That's... why it exists. Otherwise everyone would just use manual action or full auto. If you're firing from a helicopter at $1000 an hour you don't want to be mucking around with a bolt or lever every shot since, well, it's dangerous and rate of fire counts. If you'd bothered reading replies you'd know that, but you're obsessed with you bulls eyeing womp rats with your t14 being the epitome of shooting challenges. So no, no appeal to authority fallacy because there's no fallacy there.

 

Your experts' argument that Russia would go bankrupt while still having enough money to pay off all its debts always was moronic and was the equivalent of saying someone would go bankrupt when they ran out of money in their wallet. All the sanctions that were meant to do plus more and they can still pay off all their debt from cash five years later.

 

And yes, if you refuse to issue new loans to cover old ones that is calling in debt. Still true, I just got bored of repeating myself.

[Gromnir]

No I claim they're right because they're experts and you provided no evidence they were wrong. 

 

this is getting very, very sad.  logic does not have your argument, your fallacy, get stronger 'cause of something Gromnir said or did not say.  is absolute nothing Gromnir can do or say to make your argument better.  lord knows you cannot fix your mistake retroactive so as to erase your poor grasp o' logic.

 

 

just don't bring up logic... evar.  you have no idea what you are doing.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

Hey, does anybody know what Michelle Obama's relationship with her dad is because she decided to bash all (divorced) dads by comparing them to Trumptard. Hoiw much more hateful and sexist can one be? LMAO

[Bartimaeus]

Bernie's town hall with Fox News:

 

 

 

A few deflections, some perhaps overly roundabout answers so that he could make his point before actually answering the given question (happened more in the first half than the second, I thought), but watching this, I remember why I liked Sanders so much in 2016. The general disinclination to attack or label others except by and on their actual ideas and stances, a strong desire to get to work on the things that a great majority of people would like to immediately get worked on (and not just worked on, but also work through in the serious and difficult manner they require) rather than obsessing with the stupid divisive wedge issues that dominate our politics today (on a side-note, I'm shocked that they didn't try to string him up on guns given all the recent massacres and his lighter than usual stance vs. guns compared to his peers - would've been a great opportunity to get him in a bad light with both progressives and conservatives...especially because it seemed like they had a few gotchas lined up for him), and honestly, I think I just like his personality and his style of oration...for the most part. He's not the perfect man for the job, not by any means - there will undoubtedly be issues with his specific plans for dealing with these things, and of course there will be, just like there is with every candidate and their sky-high "promises" and "plans". The man's a bit of an idealist, but he has the good sense to say that a lot of these things will be difficult to deal with in a way that works sensibly for the majority of people, which is absolutely true - especially if there is no unity between us, if we remain as polarized as we are (especially needlessly on issues where we actually agree to a great degree). I remember why I voted for him in 2016, and I'm getting ready to do so again if there's not a darned compelling argument in favor of someone else. Let's have an agenda to deal with and, yes, seriously work on the stuff that a strong majority of the U.S. - us - agree needs to be worked on. Even if we end up arguing for years about the specifics of the things that need to be worked on, I can be content that, at the very least, they'll have been the pressing issues worth arguing about rather than the absolute nonsense that has been going on for years now.

[ktchong]

This may come as a shock to most of you, but unless Bernie Sanders, Tulsi Gabbard, or my "second choice" Elizabeth Warren or Andrew Yang become the Democratic nominee for 2020, I will likely vote for DONALD TRUMP in the next presidential election.  Trump's hard-line immigration policy is actually the main reason why I would rather support him over any neoliberal establishment corporatist Democrats: even though they are all corrupted, at least I can get something I want out of Trump: less illegal immigration and economic migration.

Edited April 16, 2019 by ktchong

[Gromnir]

This may come as a shock to most of you, but unless Bernie Sanders, Tulsi Gabbard, or my "second choice" Elizabeth Warren or Andrew Yang become the Democratic nominee for 2020, I will likely vote for DONALD TRUMP in the next presidential election.  Trump's hard-line immigration policy is actually the main reason why I would rather support him over any neoliberal establishment corporatist Democrats: even though they are all corrupted, at least I can get something I want out of Trump: less illegal immigration and economic migration.

have the last two years produced less illegal immigration and economic migration?

 

even if you like the ideology, competence needs to work into the equation, yes? 

 

meaningful immigration reform is gonna require Congressional support, and trump couldn't manage such change when he had republican control of the house and senate. the president keeps firing his own appointees at dhs and ice 'cause they tell him his policies is impractical, unreasonable and/or illegal. a guy like kelly were perfect situated to help trump achieve immigration goals as he were respected on both sides of the aisle and he had significant dhs experience... but at least his successor at dhs is still around, right? no?

 

as for economic migration, trump takes credit for companies which stay in the us, even if the plans to stay were cemented before trump took office.  other feel good stories, were achieved through sweetheart tax cuts that only prolonged the inevitable. the jobs being lost via migration is never coming back, 'cause even when such businesses do return to the US, they is largely handled by automation. 

 

trump has never had a coherent immigration policy and there ain't nothing he can do 'bout basic economic forces behind economic migration. instead, the president has rhetoric meant to resonate with angry folks out of work or furious with Congress and the lack o' meaningful immigration reform. you are buying snake oil.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Boeroer]

Hey, does anybody know what Michelle Obama's relationship with her dad is because she decided to bash all (divorced) dads by comparing them to Trumptard. Hoiw much more hateful and sexist can one be? LMAO

Source?

[Maedhros]

Good to see both Harris, Sanders, Warren and O'Rourke releasing tax returns from the last 10 years. Transparency is a good thing. Of course, you probably don't wanna go as far as we do over here, with everyone's tax records being public and searchable.

[ShadySands]

 

Hey, does anybody know what Michelle Obama's relationship with her dad is because she decided to bash all (divorced) dads by comparing them to Trumptard. Hoiw much more hateful and sexist can one be? LMAO

Source?

 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/michelle-obama-compares-america-to-child-from-a-broken-family-under-trump-leadership

 

I'm guessing he's referencing that and while I think it's a bad analogy, I didn't draw the same conclusion of her bashing all divorced fathers that Volo did. 

 

Also, regarding the dumping of illegals in sanctuary cities, it seems like something that's scarier to his base than it would be to those cities. But as others have already said it seems legally dubious.

Edited April 16, 2019 by ShadySands

[HoonDing]

Republicans are the real (((globalists))).

[Volourn]

"Source?"

 

Michelle Obama. Geez. It came straight from her. LMAO

 

 

 

"I'm guessing he's referencing that and while I think it's a bad analogy, I didn't draw the same conclusion of her bashing all divorced fathers that Volo did"

 

L0L  'Trump is like a divorced father'. That is pretty clear cut bashing all divorced fathers. Comparing to Trump espciially we know she hates him is clear cut bashing.. Remember, people compare Trump to Hitler so by comparing divorced dads to Trump she is stating that divorced fathers are like Hitler.

 

Yeah, I went there. <>

[Bartimaeus]

The problem with that is that while plenty of others have strongly criticized Trump, Michelle herself has not been particularly openly critical of him (probably to avoid legacy and politicization issues being the wife of the previous president - even if she had criticism that was totally right, immediately trying to make your successor look poor is a bad look for everyone involved). Her analogy didn't even seem particularly directed at Trump - it was more about how broken as a nation we are, and Trump is simply the figurehead of one side of it.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Bartimaeus

[Volourn]

Kiddin' right? She has attacked Trump a lot. Not that none of it is deserved - but please don't like. It is pretty rude. And, of course it was directed at Trump. And, why attack all divorced fathers/ That is evil. Kind of Hitlerish, actually sinmce Hitler is the Ultimate Evil.

[Bartimaeus]

(except non-ironically)

 

I presume you have specific headlines you've seen in mind, but it's more difficult to Google for random-but-relevant headlines that have both "Michelle Obama" and "Trump" in them than I expected. The big two I keep seeing are her angry at him for starting the birther conspiracy theory, and criticism over his myriad of misogynist...incidents.

[Boeroer]

"Source?"

 

Michelle Obama. Geez. It came straight from her. LMAO

 

 

 

"I'm guessing he's referencing that and while I think it's a bad analogy, I didn't draw the same conclusion of her bashing all divorced fathers that Volo did"

 

L0L 'Trump is like a divorced father'. That is pretty clear cut bashing all divorced fathers. Comparing to Trump espciially we know she hates him is clear cut bashing.. Remember, people compare Trump to Hitler so by comparing divorced dads to Trump she is stating that divorced fathers are like Hitler.

 

Yeah, I went there. <>

Ha - you are one silly boy, aren't you?

 

"It's Michelle Obama! LOLZ!"

 

 

I wanted to read the textual source of that statement so that I don't have to judge based on your interpretation. Since you are a forum user with a very dubious reputation the question for source was justified.

 

And I was right. Your interpretation is devious and vitriolic.

 

The analogy she used is still bad though. She needs to go to attend an analogy workshop or something.

 

The right analogy would of course have been that USA is the North Pole, US citizens are all little elves, then Santa Claus died and Krampus became your new boss.

That would mean Krampus is as bad as Trump (which would be unfair to say) - but who cares about Krampus anyway...

Edited April 17, 2019 by Boeroer

[Volourn]

" dubious reputation "

 

Did you just call me Hitler? EVIL.

[Maedhros]

So Trump vetoed the bipartisan bill to end U.S military support to Saudi-Arabia in the Yemen-conflict. Trump describes it as a 'dangerous attempt to weaken my constitutional authorities.'

 

Down is the new up. Peace is dangerous!

[BruceVC]

So Trump vetoed the bipartisan bill to end U.S military support to Saudi-Arabia in the Yemen-conflict. Trump describes it as a 'dangerous attempt to weaken my constitutional authorities.'

 

Down is the new up. Peace is dangerous!

But what difference would it make if the veto had gone through, the USA is not responsible for the conflict and all that will happen if the USA decides to not sell weapons to the Saudis is that the Russians ( or France, UK and China)will happily supply them like we have seen in Syria and the Russians aiding Assad. 

 

The conflict in Yemen is a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran but is part  the interminable Shia\Sunni conflict that the region is grappling with. 

 

And if someone is going to sell the Saudis weapons I would much rather have Western democracies doing it than autocratic states like Russia and China. The only people who can end the conflict is Saudi Arabia and Iran, not the USA

[HoonDing]

Trump is worse than Hitler. Hitler wasn't a draft-dodging coward.

[BruceVC]

Trump is worse than Hitler. Hitler wasn't a draft-dodging coward.

    This made me laugh

[Volourn]

Funny. Trump is horrible because he dodges the draft.  Muhammed Ali is a hero for doing the same exact thing. LMAO

 

 

P.S. Ali > Trump largely unlike Trump Ali is anti SJW Nazi.

[Malcador]

So he was not fit to serve, until they lowered the standard. Funny that they lowered them again with MacNamara's plan.

[Gfted1]

Exactly like Amentep link in another thread postulates, as long as its "your side" doing something, its ok. 

[Gromnir]

ali didn't actual dodge anything though, did he?  draft dodge is traditional when avoidance is achieved through dishonest or evasive maneuvers. muhammad ali very public applied for conscientious objector status and were initially denied.  ali were arrested when he refused to respond to his draft summons, and had his boxing career effective suspended while his case wound its way through the courts... with the boxer achieving an eventual 8-0 victory before SCOTUS-- thurgood marshal recused. no slipping away to canada or phony medical excuse.

 

conscientious objectors is frequent offered alternative service but such never came up given the legal brouhaha which ensued. perhaps folks saw hacksaw ridge? desmond doss were a conscientious objector. might balk at calling him a draft dodger.  is possible ali woulda' refused alternative service, but we will never know.  one reason ali won his Court case unanimous is 'cause he were never offered alternative.  government were so intent on making an example o' muhammad ali they forgot to follow procedure.

 

ali did suffer considerable public scorn for many years following his refusal to submit to service.  were a long time before public perception o' ali shifted.  perhaps if trump had manned up and fought for something, as did ali, then perhaps public perceptions woulda' shifted for him as well.  instead, trump deserved gets the corporal bone spurs label.  

 

funny aside, trump announced he were gonna posthumously pardon muhammad ali, not realizing ali had won in court and were not requiring a pardon. were yet another day gd's gas station owner didn't need pony up free fuel.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[ShadySands]

The difference is that Ali refused the draft, not the same thing. 

 

On April 28, 1967, with the United States at war in Vietnam, Ali refused to be inducted into the armed forces, saying “I ain’t got no quarrel with those Vietcong.” On June 20, 1967, Ali was convicted of draft evasion, sentenced to five years in prison, fined $10,000 and banned from boxing for three years. He stayed out of prison as his case was appealed and returned to the ring on October 26, 1970, knocking out Jerry Quarry in Atlanta in the third round. On March 8, 1971, Ali fought Joe Frazier in the “Fight of the Century” and lost after 15 rounds, the first loss of his professional boxing career. On June 28 of that same year, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned his conviction for evading the draft.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/muhammad-ali-refuses-army-induction

 

Also, I don't have a problem with Trump not wanting to go but his behavior towards the military and those that did serve is what makes him a coward in my eyes.

 

E: Ninja'd by Gromnir

Edited April 17, 2019 by ShadySands