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I can see why there aren't that many new builds posted...


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#1
drithius

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It seems anything which someone deems fun and worthwhile gets nerfed into oblivion...  

 

Bought the game on release, only playing now, and the sheer amount of changes I see from in-game versus various guides is baffling.


Edited by drithius, 06 January 2019 - 05:20 PM.

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#2
Franknstein

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Nope. The game is in better shape and more fun to play now. Because Balance!
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#3
Yosharian

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It seems anything which someone deems fun and worthwhile gets nerfed into oblivion...  

 

Bought the game on release, only playing now, and the sheer amount of changes I see from in-game versus various guides is baffling.

 

That's more a damning indictment of the state of the various game wikis than it is anything else.  Game guides invariably become outdated, that's not unique to this game.  In fact, it is a positive thing that the developers are attempting to balance the game.

 

I know that some take the attitude that balancing removes fun, but I don't see the fun in destroying any challenge a game has simply by picking up a broken item.  It's fun to create powerful builds, strategies, and so on, but there is absolutely no skill involved in picking up an overpowered weapon and then autoattacking everything to its doom.

 

If there is anything to bemoan, it's the fact that the developers aren't willing to take balancing further.  There are many classes and subclasses that have been utter trash since the game was released, and remain so.


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#4
Verde

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It seems anything which someone deems fun and worthwhile gets nerfed into oblivion...

Bought the game on release, only playing now, and the sheer amount of changes I see from in-game versus various guides is baffling.


That's more a damning indictment of the state of the various game wikis than it is anything else. Game guides invariably become outdated, that's not unique to this game. In fact, it is a positive thing that the developers are attempting to balance the game.

I know that some take the attitude that balancing removes fun, but I don't see the fun in destroying any challenge a game has simply by picking up a broken item. It's fun to create powerful builds, strategies, and so on, but there is absolutely no skill involved in picking up an overpowered weapon and then autoattacking everything to its doom.

If there is anything to bemoan, it's the fact that the developers aren't willing to take balancing further. There are many classes and subclasses that have been utter trash since the game was released, and remain so.

Which ones do you think have remained so?

#5
Yosharian

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It seems anything which someone deems fun and worthwhile gets nerfed into oblivion...

Bought the game on release, only playing now, and the sheer amount of changes I see from in-game versus various guides is baffling.


That's more a damning indictment of the state of the various game wikis than it is anything else. Game guides invariably become outdated, that's not unique to this game. In fact, it is a positive thing that the developers are attempting to balance the game.

I know that some take the attitude that balancing removes fun, but I don't see the fun in destroying any challenge a game has simply by picking up a broken item. It's fun to create powerful builds, strategies, and so on, but there is absolutely no skill involved in picking up an overpowered weapon and then autoattacking everything to its doom.

If there is anything to bemoan, it's the fact that the developers aren't willing to take balancing further. There are many classes and subclasses that have been utter trash since the game was released, and remain so.

Which ones do you think have remained so?

 

 

Conjurer, for example, because you can't choose the pet you get given.  Baffling.

 

Transmuter: does anyone use this spell?

 

Corpse-eater is embarrassingly bad.

 

Mage-slayer's penalties are way too severe.

 

Nalpazca is still bugged to **** because of Arcane Dampener.

 

Darcozzi's unique ability is utter rubbish.

 

There are probably others, but those are the ones obvious to me.

 

Illusionist could use a tweak as well, losing access to Conjuration is fine, but Enchanting?  **** that noise.  Just let us choose our god-damned opposed schools and be done with it, Obsi.


Edited by Yosharian, 07 January 2019 - 08:26 PM.

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#6
heldred

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I agree, the game needs a patch 4.5 balance check... too many sub-classes are rubbish.  Then again, a few mods address some of these shortcomings.



#7
uuuhhii

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monk chanter and streetfighter still too powerful

no point try to make something stronger

why not just build for fun


Edited by uuuhhii, 07 January 2019 - 09:23 PM.


#8
Ensign

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Which ones do you think have remained so?


Not necessarily utter trash, but generally poor choices (excepting the brand new specializations that haven't seen a pass yet):

Corpse Eater: penalties too severe and hard to use for the benefits.

Mage Slayer: severe penalties make it often a trap choice.

Stormspeaker: not usually mentioned because it's multiclassed, but single class chanter Tekehu is ready bad.

Beguiler: worse at its described role than Ascendant with no real upsides.

Wild Mind: lololol.

Black Jacket: I don't know that it is underpowered given a relatively minor drawback, but the role that this was envisioned to fill was nerfed hard enough that it isn't really attractive anymore.

Shattered Pillar: honorable mention. It does have a niche, but has so many drawbacks that even in places where you might otherwise see it vanilla monk is better.

Sister of the Reaping Moon: not too bad, but almost a strict downgrade from vanilla monk.

Darcozzi Paladini: while every other Paladin order has found a mechanical niche, Darcozzi basically exist as a no frills roleplaying order. Nothing really to advise it here.

Brotherhood of the Five Suns: another NPC class - actually worse than a theoretical vanilla paladin with no special benefit.

Priest of Eothas: ultra generic spell list makes it's only niche an ultra second class focused multiclass, and I don't think any of those are particularly good.

Priest of Berath: similar to the above.

Priest of Gaun: a bad version of Eothas. At least Blessed Harvest is good for Maje Isle?

Sharpshooter: almost a strict downgrade on vanilla Ranger. Excessive drawbacks for minimal benefits.

All wizard specializations except Evoker - penalties are excessive for very minor bonuses. Many of these don't scale appreciably with power level.


In addition, rogue and chanter have powerful, generic enough subclasses in trickster and troubadour that their vanilla versions are almost always a poor choice.
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#9
Haplok

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I agree with most of the above, except Sharpshooter. I really like the bonuses, particularly on a low penetration weapon like a blunderbuss. More crit conversion is always welcome as well.

So it might be not an obvious pick, but I actually think this one of the best balanced subclasses - win some, loose some. Does not make vanilla ranger obsolete and that's a good thing.


Edited by Haplok, 07 January 2019 - 11:33 PM.


#10
Boeroer

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Blessed Harvest scales wickedly with Power Levels. One of the best lvl-1 spells there is. Try a Xoti with Morning Star + this spell: *whack*...*explode*. Priest of Gaun + Helwalker would be a great combo just because of this spell...

#11
Purudaya

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I'm genuinely surprised that people are still upset about the obviously necessary balance changes between 1.0 and 4.0. Charge + mob stance + swift flurry nuking entire encounters with one mouse click stopped being fun for most players after the 2nd or 3rd go. 

 

 

 

Inb4 'single player game;' some of us like to do multiple playthroughs and a degree of equity between builds helps sustain variety. 

 

As for classes that need help, I wish people would pay more attention to the assassin. It's fine for an evoker multi, but it's pretty garbage as a martial melee class and slinging fireballs from stealth or backstabbing with a greatsword isn't exactly what comes to mind when you're wanting to play a cloak-and-dagger type with solid burst dps. Just changing backstab to a fixed (and ideally progressive\scaling) bonus instead of a percentage based one would be a big help.


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#12
Elric Galad

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I think the only problem of the Black Jacket is that Devoted is much more straightforward and popular for DPS build

Instant swap between, for example, Wahai Poraga / Willbreaker / some arbalest / Flail & Board offers a lots of possibilities : alpha strike / debuff with modals / single target vs AoE DPS / offense vs defense.

You may be using a shield and swap to 2-hander for a clear out.
You may debuff all 3 secondary defenses (thanks willbreaker).
You may alpha-interrupt an annoying wiz or even draw your arbalest as a basically free action while in melee just to knock the said wiz.

It requires a bit more build-around but I fail to see the class as bad or limited to quickswitch gunswapping.

#13
Yosharian

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As for classes that need help, I wish people would pay more attention to the assassin. It's fine for an evoker multi,

Ooh, could you be more specific?  I have an Evoker that I could turn into a Spellblade, but I wasn't sure if it would work, or how it might work.



#14
Archaven

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It seems anything which someone deems fun and worthwhile gets nerfed into oblivion...

Bought the game on release, only playing now, and the sheer amount of changes I see from in-game versus various guides is baffling.


Better equip yourself with flame shield :p. Basically I would say the earlier you play the better. But since you are late we have the most balanced multiplayer game to date :p.

For me personally I like every build to be viable and kick some good butt at mid late game. But the way I see it this game has many classes and subclasses yes.

They were not meant to be made equal. There are some classes will deal higher damage. There are some classes that are great in tanking and some support. So you have to find the one you like to play in 2 of those classes.

There are some classes which out right mediocre in dps if you choose to do so. But I kinda agree with you on the approach obsidian is taking. They are only eyeing on whatever build or item/Armor/weapon//etc. and they will nerf it.

I think that's their answer in giving folks who wanted a challenge? Maybe they are waiting for a dark souls equivalent award or something :p

#15
Sanctuary

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As for classes that need help, I wish people would pay more attention to the assassin. It's fine for an evoker multi,

Ooh, could you be more specific?  I have an Evoker that I could turn into a Spellblade, but I wasn't sure if it would work, or how it might work.

 

 

It works how you think it would.  You're an Evoker that gets the passive bonuses from the Assassin.  Trickster/Evoker is another option, but Assassin/Evoker is pretty much the glassiest, glass cannon there is.

 



#16
Yosharian

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As for classes that need help, I wish people would pay more attention to the assassin. It's fine for an evoker multi,

Ooh, could you be more specific?  I have an Evoker that I could turn into a Spellblade, but I wasn't sure if it would work, or how it might work.

 

 

It works how you think it would.  You're an Evoker that gets the passive bonuses from the Assassin.  Trickster/Evoker is another option, but Assassin/Evoker is pretty much the glassiest, glass cannon there is.

 

 

 

"it works how you think it would"

*video is full of mistakes*

 

Not trying to be an ass, but I want to know EXACTLY, SPECIFICALLY what makes this multiclass work.



#17
Boeroer

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Assassinate (attacking with higher ACC, crit damage and PEN from stealth and invisibility) works with spells - also AoE spells like Fireball and such. That's what makes this multiclass work.  


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#18
Haplok

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+25 Accuracy, +4 Pen and +50% critical damage on (often Empowered) spells cast from Stealth. Some encounters end before they really start.

Also you can re-stealth a few times to drop another nuke...

 

Edit: Ninja'd by our Blue Master Ninja!


Edited by Haplok, 08 January 2019 - 06:02 AM.

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#19
Clerith

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Ability changes were mostly fine, with a few over-nerfs, but item changes still have me kinda tilted, like Sungrazer. Was that really necessary?

 

It's also just natural for a game at the end of its life cycle to have much, much less new content like builds.

 

Obsidian were really good at nerfing key items in popular and powerful builds that popped up at the forums though.


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#20
theBalthazar

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I agree with that : Obsidian Must Reinforce possibilities of associations of multiclass. All bonuses (even weak) must to give satisfaction. In fact, a lot of things can not stack, when others combinations stack. = Not balanced.

 

Also need a buff :

 

Priest - Druid

 

Personnally, I don't see why Monk not need a nerf...


Edited by theBalthazar, 08 January 2019 - 06:15 AM.





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