Someone rate the new subclasses

[Takkik]

the selling point of blood mage is blood sacrifice, not the regen. But the regen is a nice addition because it stack with other regen abilities like the paladin aura or chanter healing (or fighter constant recovery).

 

And yes it's deadfire balance. Exemple since release every item bonus have been toned down. One regen item don't worth it alone, but if you add blood mage regen, fighter regen, some aura like paladin/chanter and you get a good amount of health back with doing anything.

[Enoch]

Haven't tried it in action yet, but Bellower still seems pretty lousy... until you get Eld Nary's Curse.  Imagine using it with the Singing Scimitar:  open with an Empowered Curse for an "Old-Skool Empower" +10 PL (Empower stacks with class-feature PL boosts, right?), then follow with immediately a second +5 PL Curse.  (Along with chanting Long Night's Drink to debuff enemy FORT, of course.)  That'll end a whole lot of fights right there. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Enoch

[Boeroer]

Yes it stacks. If you take the empower-passives every offensive invocation is quite nice with empowerment. Eld Nary's Curse comes so late...

[Raven Darkholme]

 

Bloodmage regen is nice addition. Plus fighter regen (even limited) and some extra source of regen from a chanter/spell, you can use blood sacrifice and cast spells without a problem.

 

It's deadfire design. Bloodmage regen alone isn't enough, you need to add it to other source of regen.

 

That's bad logic.  It's not a 'nice addition', it's barely impactful.  Paladin aura gives nearly 10x that amount, and doesn't come with a -15 Defenses drawback and loss of Empower.

 

I can simply not pick Blood Mage and still enjoy the far greater impact of those other regeneration abilities you mentioned.  Blood Mage regeneration barely registers.

 

Paladin aura 10x 9 hp per 3s?

How did you achieve 90 regen per tick, please share?

Or have you not played blood mage further than level 1, thus not realizing it levels up and can be boosted by Mi and healing bonuses?

[brasilgringo]

Tactician/Any Wizard is by far the strongest for solo play, brilliant on mages is just insane and you counter the ACC/PEN penalty with Phantom.

Chanter also looks good, but haven't tested it.

Blood Mage is nice, but not necessarily better than empower Mages.

 

Can you explain more about your Phantom comment?  It counters the penalty by doing attacks/damage itself (really offsetting your penalty) or in some other way?

 

Also if you have a solo POTD or even Veteran build for Tactician/Wiz, please share.  I worry about deflection and getting overwhelmed, especially as in Beta at least, pulling a few mobs ended up always pulling all mobs..

[Yosharian]

 

 

Bloodmage regen is nice addition. Plus fighter regen (even limited) and some extra source of regen from a chanter/spell, you can use blood sacrifice and cast spells without a problem.

 

It's deadfire design. Bloodmage regen alone isn't enough, you need to add it to other source of regen.

 

That's bad logic.  It's not a 'nice addition', it's barely impactful.  Paladin aura gives nearly 10x that amount, and doesn't come with a -15 Defenses drawback and loss of Empower.

 

I can simply not pick Blood Mage and still enjoy the far greater impact of those other regeneration abilities you mentioned.  Blood Mage regeneration barely registers.

 

Paladin aura 10x 9 hp per 3s?

How did you achieve 90 regen per tick, please share?

Or have you not played blood mage further than level 1, thus not realizing it levels up and can be boosted by Mi and healing bonuses?

 

 

My level 12 Pally's aura gives like 4.5hp per 3 sec.  Blood Mage gives about 1 per 6.  By comparison, Pally gives 9hp per 6 second.  That's nearly 10x the amount.  Ok, yes the BM regeneration will get stronger.  No, that doesn't dramatically change the comparison, because it's working off a base of 1hp/6sec.

 

It's trash, and lul you can combine it with other regeneration abilities and then it's not so bad is such stupid logic I can't even.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Yosharian

[Raven Darkholme]

 

 

 

Bloodmage regen is nice addition. Plus fighter regen (even limited) and some extra source of regen from a chanter/spell, you can use blood sacrifice and cast spells without a problem.

 

It's deadfire design. Bloodmage regen alone isn't enough, you need to add it to other source of regen.

 

That's bad logic.  It's not a 'nice addition', it's barely impactful.  Paladin aura gives nearly 10x that amount, and doesn't come with a -15 Defenses drawback and loss of Empower.

 

I can simply not pick Blood Mage and still enjoy the far greater impact of those other regeneration abilities you mentioned.  Blood Mage regeneration barely registers.

 

Paladin aura 10x 9 hp per 3s?

How did you achieve 90 regen per tick, please share?

Or have you not played blood mage further than level 1, thus not realizing it levels up and can be boosted by Mi and healing bonuses?

 

 

My level 12 Pally's aura gives like 4.5hp per 3 sec.  Blood Mage gives about 1 per 6.  By comparison, Pally gives 9hp per 6 second.  That's nearly 10x the amount.  Ok, yes the BM regeneration will get stronger.  No, that doesn't dramatically change the comparison, because it's working off a base of 1hp/6sec.

 

It's trash, and lul you can combine it with other regeneration abilities and then it's not so bad is such stupid logic I can't even.

 

Reading doesn't seem to be your strong point?

Blood Mage maxes out at 9 hp per tick if you have a 21% Might bonus and Dawnstars blessing.

If a pala wants to heal 10x as much that would be 90 hp/tick, but it's not like I already wrote that.

You don't seem to understand that Bloodmages level bonus applies to the base heal 1 + 1 at the first scale and at the end it is 1+4 = 5 base.

 

edit: alright I'm mistaken and it is not per tick but per 6 secs.

Still means it maxes at 4.5 per 3s and to do 10x as much would mean 45 hp/tick.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Raven Darkholme

[Climhazzard]

Bloodmage 9Hp per 6 seconds isn't bad, it's a lot better than 1hp.  Might have to try it out for the sage synergy sometime.

[Yosharian]

 

 

 

 

Bloodmage regen is nice addition. Plus fighter regen (even limited) and some extra source of regen from a chanter/spell, you can use blood sacrifice and cast spells without a problem.

 

It's deadfire design. Bloodmage regen alone isn't enough, you need to add it to other source of regen.

That's bad logic. It's not a 'nice addition', it's barely impactful. Paladin aura gives nearly 10x that amount, and doesn't come with a -15 Defenses drawback and loss of Empower.

 

I can simply not pick Blood Mage and still enjoy the far greater impact of those other regeneration abilities you mentioned. Blood Mage regeneration barely registers.

Paladin aura 10x 9 hp per 3s?

How did you achieve 90 regen per tick, please share?

Or have you not played blood mage further than level 1, thus not realizing it levels up and can be boosted by Mi and healing bonuses?

My level 12 Pally's aura gives like 4.5hp per 3 sec. Blood Mage gives about 1 per 6. By comparison, Pally gives 9hp per 6 second. That's nearly 10x the amount. Ok, yes the BM regeneration will get stronger. No, that doesn't dramatically change the comparison, because it's working off a base of 1hp/6sec.

 

It's trash, and lul you can combine it with other regeneration abilities and then it's not so bad is such stupid logic I can't even.

Reading doesn't seem to be your strong point?

Blood Mage maxes out at 9 hp per tick if you have a 21% Might bonus and Dawnstars blessing.

If a pala wants to heal 10x as much that would be 90 hp/tick, but it's not like I already wrote that.

You don't seem to understand that Bloodmages level bonus applies to the base heal 1 + 1 at the first scale and at the end it is 1+4 = 5 base.

 

edit: alright I'm mistaken and it is not per tick but per 6 secs.

Still means it maxes at 4.5 per 3s and to do 10x as much would mean 45 hp/tick.

Wtf is Dawnstar's Blessing?

 

I tested it with a character that had 20 might and it was at 1.2 per 6 sec

 

Can you break down the percentages that gave you 9hp per 6? Cos that's actually not bad at all

 

1 base increased to 9 is a 900% increase... (actually 800% increase)

Edited December 18, 2018 by Yosharian

[guildwriter]

Dawnstar's Blessing: +50% Healing done, +2 Religion

-> let the Dawnstars in Port Maje bless you, can only be acquired once (source)

 

IIRC Raven focuses on No Rest runs which is why it's a relevant buff.

Edited December 17, 2018 by guildwriter

[Raven Darkholme]

Wtf is Dawnstar's Blessing?

 

I tested it with a character that had 20 might and it was at 1.2 per 6 sec

 

Can you break down the percentages that gave you 9hp per 6? Cos that's actually not bad at all

 

1 base increased to 9 is a 900% increase...

 

 

As Guildwriter said in the post above me, you get it in Maje and it expires on rest, but since this is not the only amazing buff for no rest runs and there is no fatigue in this game (not to be confused with the injury of the same name) it is not very hard to go for no rest runs in this game.

(Worst enemy are forced rests, but after a whikle you know them all).

However I did not add any items with healing bonus so close to 50% can probably aquired without dawnstars.

I do not know how you think it would be a 900% increase, unless you did not read my post AGAIN...

I already wrote that the level based increase for the Blood Mages regen is a flat addition to the base so a level 20 multiclassed Blood Mage has +4, so the base is 5 and NOT 1.

The actual number with 21% from Mi and 50% from Dawnstars is 8.7, but you actually get 9 per 6s.

It is a shame you never actually played a blood mage further than getting a heal of 1 yet presume to know how "bad" the class is.

(I have not tested a single class but I assume this is PL based so a single class BM might have an even higher base heal)

Edited December 18, 2018 by Raven Darkholme

[Yosharian]

Dawnstar's Blessing: +50% Healing done, +2 Religion

-> let the Dawnstars in Port Maje bless you, can only be acquired once (source)

 

IIRC Raven focuses on No Rest runs which is why it's a relevant buff.

Lmao, he's using a 50% healing done buff to artificially inflate the numbers, I'm done

[Yosharian]

 

Wtf is Dawnstar's Blessing?

 

I tested it with a character that had 20 might and it was at 1.2 per 6 sec

 

Can you break down the percentages that gave you 9hp per 6? Cos that's actually not bad at all

 

1 base increased to 9 is a 900% increase...

 

 

As Guildwriter said in the post above me, you get it in Maje and it expires on rest, but since this is not the only amazing buff for no rest runs and there is no fatigue in this game (not to be confused with the injury of the same name) it is not very hard to go for no rest runs in this game.

(Worst enemy are forced rests, but after a whikle you know them all).

However I did not add any items with healing bonus so close to 50% can probably aquired without dawnstars.

I do not know how you think it would be a 900% increase, unless you did not read my post AGAIN...

I already wrote that the level based increase for the Blood Mages regen is a flat addition to the base so a level 20 multiclassed Blood Mage has +4, so the base is 5 and NOT 1.

The actual number with 21% from Mi and 50% from Dawnstars is 8.7, but you actually get 9 per 6s.

It is a shame you never actually played a blood mage further than getting a heal of 1 yet presume to know how "bad" the class is.

(I have not tested a single class but I assume this is PL based so a single class BM might have an even higher base heal)

 

 

How the **** is the base 5hp per 6 seconds when you can clearly see at level 1 that the bonus (without any MIG bonus) is 1HP per 6 seconds.  I don't think you actually understand what 'base' means.  Base means what the ability gives without any bonuses.  The base is 1 hp per 6 seconds.  Inflating that to 9 HP per 6 seconds is 900% of the base.

 

I'd like to see your percentage breakdown of how you get 9HP/6sec from the ability.  That's all I asked for.  I'm happy to be proven wrong, don't you get it?  I want the class to be good, because I want to pick it, for god's sake.  I don't have a vested interest in making it look bad.

 

Rather, I'm simply analysing the abilities based on what the game is telling me, which is that the base is 1hp per 6 seconds.  To get that to 9 HP per 6 seconds is an 800% increase (I wrote 900% before but that's not the increase exactly, but it's more or less the same thing).

 

See here https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/percentage-increase put in 1 and 9 and see that it clearly says 800 PERCENT INCREASE.  I'd like to see the breakdown on how you got 9HP per 6 seconds.  It's possible that the game is calculating it differently than what the level 1 indicator suggests, which would make the ability vastly better than it initially appears.

 

Even if you subtract the 50% healing done food buff that's still 5hp per 6 seconds which is a 400% increase off the base of 1.

 

If you can truly get to 4.85HP/6second with only a MIG bonus of 21%, then that's remarkably good, and far better than the initial stats imply.  Yet another example of ****ty tooltips from Obsidian, how players are supposed to know that it scales that well is beyond me.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Yosharian

[Raven Darkholme]

I don't really know how to help you man, do I repeat the same thing a 3rd time?

At first I thought you're just trolling but now I'm afraid that your reading comprehension is beyond my ability to explain.

You're asking for a percentage breakdown, wich I've already given you twice, so what will it change if I do it again?

Oh well if you ask for it after this post again I will just ignore you from now on, since you're clearly trolling, but here is the 3rd repeat of what I already wrote twice:

Blood Mages level 1 heal is 1hp/6sec

As the Blood Mage levles up this number is increased by 1 every few levels.

For the level 20 multiclassed bloodmage this maxes at +4.

1+4 = 5

So the base heal for a Blood Mage at 20 (multiclassed) is 5....

I always pklay a no rest run so besides my 21% Might modifier I have a 50% modifier from Dawnstars blessing.

5 + 71% = 8.55 which the game rounds up to 8.6 in the stats and to 9 in the actual healing received.

This data is not that hard to obtain if one actually plays a blood mage further than level 1 instead of spreading "information" about the class on the forum.

[Yosharian]

I don't really know how to help you man, do I repeat the same thing a 3rd time?

At first I thought you're just trolling but now I'm afraid that your reading comprehension is beyond my ability to explain.

You're asking for a percentage breakdown, wich I've already given you twice, so what will it change if I do it again?

Oh well if you ask for it after this post again I will just ignore you from now on, since you're clearly trolling, but here is the 3rd repeat of what I already wrote twice:

Blood Mages level 1 heal is 1hp/6sec

As the Blood Mage levles up this number is increased by 1 every few levels.

For the level 20 multiclassed bloodmage this maxes at +4.

1+4 = 5

So the base heal for a Blood Mage at 20 (multiclassed) is 5....

I always pklay a no rest run so besides my 21% Might modifier I have a 50% modifier from Dawnstars blessing.

5 + 71% = 8.55 which the game rounds up to 8.6 in the stats and to 9 in the actual healing received.

This data is not that hard to obtain if one actually plays a blood mage further than level 1 instead of spreading "information" about the class on the forum.

 

How the **** is your no-rest run buff relevant to the rest of the forum?

 

> As the Blood Mage levles up this number is increased by 1 every few levels.

 

Ok, now we're actually getting some useful information.  If only the game told us this information in the subclass page.  You say 'every few levels', but 'few' is a vague term.  +4 bonus at level 20 means a +1 bonus every five levels.

 

That means at level 12 (which is the comparison I gave with my Paladin, who heals 4.5/3sec with Endurance Aura), the bonus is +2, for a base of 3, every 6 seconds.

 

> So the base heal for a Blood Mage at 20 (multiclassed) is 5....

 

The stats at level 20 are hardly great stats to consider when asking if the class is worthwhile for the entire game.

 

> This data is not that hard to obtain if one actually plays a blood mage further than level 1 instead of spreading "information" about the class on the forum.

 

I'm not spreading misinformation deliberately, I am working based off the information known to me from picking the class in-game.  I was unaware of the level bonus, since the game does absolutely nothing to inform the player that such a bonus exists.  Hardly my fault.  Expecting players to pick a class and play the entire game just to find out how an ability works is absurd.

 

Anyway:

 

Let's do the comparison again, my level 12 Paladin heals 4.5/3sec (9HP/6second) with Endurance Aura, which is a reasonable amount of healing, not super strong but it's alright for a character taking moderate damage with some mitigation.  Level 12 Blood Mage does 3HP/6second base at that level, add 20% MIG bonus (30 MIG or so?  Can't remember) which makes it 3.6HP/6 second. That's not bad, significantly better than it was initially.  Equivalent to about 1 ring of greater regeneration.

[QuiteGoneJin]

DERRRAIIIILLLLED  Came back to see the replies, so many post, so little content. 

Edited December 18, 2018 by QuiteGoneJin

[Takkik]

Do you know what is your problem Yosharian? IS that you compare a buff that cost you an ability point to get vs a free bonus given by your subclass. Ancient memory is stronger too. Fighter constant recovery too. But the regen isn't the main bonus of the blood mage, it's blood sacrifice.

 

It's you who expect blood mage to have a super HP regen like the tanky classes. But the regen is  just here to compensate a little the disadvantages. They could have buffed the bonus given by blood sacrifice instead. But they choosen to give the subclass a little regen, similar to item regen.

[Yosharian]

Do you know what is your problem Yosharian? IS that you compare a buff that cost you an ability point to get vs a free bonus given by your subclass. Ancient memory is stronger too. Fighter constant recovery too. But the regen isn't the main bonus of the blood mage, it's blood sacrifice.

 

It's you who expect blood mage to have a super HP regen like the tanky classes. But the regen is just here to compensate a little the disadvantages. They could have buffed the bonus given by blood sacrifice instead. But they choosen to give the subclass a little regen, similar to item regen.

I realise that the comparison is not exactly apples to apples, but I make the comparison because I consider Endurance Aura to be a decent amount of regeneration.

 

I don't consider 1hp per 6sec to be decent. But now that I know it scales like that, it's way better.

 

I disagree that it's unreasonable to expect the ability to be good, because the penalty which we get in exchange is quite unpleasant. A guaranteed -15 Defenses vs any Bloodied enemy could be quite unpleasant if it comes at the wrong time.

[Takkik]

But you don't get -15 def vs bloodied for the regen, you get the def penalty & loose emporer for Blood sacrifice (restore spell with health) & the regen. You don't take into account that BLOOD SACRIFICE is the main advantage of the subclass. You can't just compare the health regen out of the rest. And I don't think it was ever designed to take blood mage subclass just for the regen.

 

The regen is similar to items, at max level it's like a greater troll hide belt or ring. You have an unlimited passive regen that stack with all other source of health.

 

Edit: at max level the regen is similar to ancient memory, (1hp/s) another source of passive regen.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Takkik

[Yosharian]

But you don't get -15 def vs bloodied for the regen, you get the def penalty & loose emporer for Blood sacrifice (restore spell with health) & the regen. You don't take into account that BLOOD SACRIFICE is the main advantage of the subclass. You can't just compare the health regen out of the rest. And I don't think it was ever designed to take blood mage subclass just for the regen.

 

The regen is similar to items, at max level it's like a greater troll hide belt or ring. You have an unlimited passive regen that stack with all other source of health.

 

Edit: at max level the regen is similar to ancient memory, (1hp/s) another source of passive regen.

At max level the regeneration is substantially better than those items.

 

But anyway, I think losing Empower is the trade-off for the Blood Sacrifice ability.

[brasilgringo]

 

Tactician/Any Wizard is by far the strongest for solo play, brilliant on mages is just insane and you counter the ACC/PEN penalty with Phantom.

Chanter also looks good, but haven't tested it.

Blood Mage is nice, but not necessarily better than empower Mages.

 

Can you explain more about your Phantom comment?  It counters the penalty by doing attacks/damage itself (really offsetting your penalty) or in some other way?

 

Also if you have a solo POTD or even Veteran build for Tactician/Wiz, please share.  I worry about deflection and getting overwhelmed, especially as in Beta at least, pulling a few mobs ended up always pulling all mobs..

 

 

I'm still hoping for a reply to my questions above ....

[Raven Darkholme]

 

 

Tactician/Any Wizard is by far the strongest for solo play, brilliant on mages is just insane and you counter the ACC/PEN penalty with Phantom.

Chanter also looks good, but haven't tested it.

Blood Mage is nice, but not necessarily better than empower Mages.

 

Can you explain more about your Phantom comment?  It counters the penalty by doing attacks/damage itself (really offsetting your penalty) or in some other way?

 

Also if you have a solo POTD or even Veteran build for Tactician/Wiz, please share.  I worry about deflection and getting overwhelmed, especially as in Beta at least, pulling a few mobs ended up always pulling all mobs..

 

 

I'm still hoping for a reply to my questions above ....

 

Tactician gets a penetration and Accuracy penalty if there's no ally threatening a nearby target.

As long as you don't summon the phantom with a reach weapon (summoned weapons) equipped, the phantom can engage enemies and as long as you're close to it the penalty will disappear.

 

My deflection is at 135 without Wizard's double atm, main reasons for that being Fighter's defense buff (+20) and Gipon Prudensco (+10), also have a medium shield and W+S style.

My char is only level 18 atm, so no complete build yet, but will probably do one today or tomorrow.

Tbf there isn't that much you can do wrong, as long as you understand what you need to do to get brilliant you have unlimited Discipline and spells.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Raven Darkholme

[knownastherat]

Wizard Double ...

 

I am kind of mirroring Raven Darkholme Twitch playthrough with Steel Garrot/Bloodmage so we are about same level doing same content, level 16 now. From my experience, comparing Tactician/BM and Pala/BM, seems to me they perform about the same* just with different tools. Pala, obviously, is without Brilliant but has more sustain. Right now I can Bloodsacrifice 4-5 times in a row, to get spells back, without risking to kill myself, which happened on lower levels, and heal  back to full in no time.

 

Those who like to cast a lot, Tactician/Bloodmage. Those who like to cast and hit, Paladin/Bloodmage. 

 

 

All in all, Bloodmage, the strongest class.

 

---

*edit: this only applies overall. In cases when Tactician gets Brilliant early and is able to keep it, there is no contest as it can cast infinite spells. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by knownastherat

[Stardusk78]

Wizard Double ...

 

I am kind of mirroring Raven Darkholme Twitch playthrough with Steel Garrot/Bloodmage so we are about same level doing same content, level 16 now. From my experience, comparing Tactician/BM and Pala/BM, seems to me they perform about the same* just with different tools. Pala, obviously, is without Brilliant but has more sustain. Right now I can Bloodsacrifice 4-5 times in a row, to get spells back, without risking to kill myself, which happened on lower levels, and heal  back to full in no time.

 

Those who like to cast a lot, Tactician/Bloodmage. Those who like to cast and hit, Paladin/Bloodmage. 

 

 

All in all, Bloodmage, the strongest class.

 

---

*edit: this only applies overall. In cases when Tactician gets Brilliant early and is able to keep it, there is no contest as it can cast infinite spells.

I am running a Bloodmage/Troubador (Loremaster) and it is quite similar, lots of passive heals+ equipment. Pretty dope.

[Verde]

I mean a no rest run is certainly not a benchmark to a measure a class.