Someone rate the new subclasses

[QuiteGoneJin]

Haven't much exp with them or their usefulness but this would be cool to see. Rated based on identity, does the subclass do something original, efficacy, how useful is the class in its designed roll compared to other sub classes, multi classing potential. 

 

I feel like Tactician will be top of the list.

[Takkik]

Playing right now tactician/bloodmage and love it. Infinite resources. Early on can trigger Brilliant tactician with chill fog.

[Frak]

The question is impossible to answer for two reasons.

 

1) Everybody have different playstyles. I tend to dislike ranged and will therefore say that melee class X is better than ranged class Y. Because!

 

2) Certain classes are severely bugged. For instance, Forbidden Fist is so bugged it's useless. So that class cannot be measured.

[MaxQuest]

Uhh, dunno what metric exactly to use for rating. But let it be overall impact that I would expect them to bring to my possible parties.

And just a reminder: this is very subjective, and as Frak mentioned above related to personal playstyle. Also my views might shift as I play more with them. So:

 

Barbarian - Furyshaper: 4.5/10 or 5.5 (is fear ward is pulsing every 3s, and not tunnel-vision by enemies)

Chanter - Belower (if PL bonus is universal): 7/10

Chanter - Belower (if PL bonus is chanter only): 4/10

Cipher - Psion: 3.5/10

Druid - Ancient (in early game): 8/10

Druid - Ancient (in mid-late game): 5/10

Fighter - Tactician: 8/10

Fighter - Tactician (if penalty is changed from -1PEN, -5ACC, to lets say -2PEN): 9/10

Monk - Forbidden Fist: 3/10

Monk - Forbidden Fist (with shenanigans): 5/10

Paladin - Steel Garrote: 6/10

Priest of Woedica: 6/10

Ranger - Arcane Archer (early-game): 4/10

Ranger - Arcane Archer (late-game): 6/10

Rogue - Debonaire: 5/10

Wizard - Bloodmage: 7/10

 

 

 

And a few notes about reasoning:

- Furyshaper: the wards have 3s/4s cast/recovery time which is quite long in my book. And they also don't deal any damage. So I won't be building this subclass as damage-dealer ever. But it opens the possibility to crease a multi-classed barb based on debuffing - the one who is focused on wards, shouts and jumps. It doesn't look as powerful as tactician/trickster or skald/trickster, but it's ok.. I guess.

 

- Chanter: at +0.5 bonus PL per phrase consumed, it was pretty meh. Since it was increased to +1 bonus PL it is now an interesting option for a belower/evoker - who can cast an invocation, and basically follow up with empowered evocation stuff. Although... if the bonus PL only applies to chants and invocations... then it's a different story, since a troubadour will outdamage him.

 

- Cipher: the sweet thing about cipher is that once you figure out how to achieve high focus generation you can get ahead of the curve. And with psion you get a fixed rate. The best way to capitalize on this is: multi-class with someone who doesn't deal weapon damage. You toss some vancian spells, in meantime get focus, use it, and switch back to vancian spells. Sounds good. So far. The bad thing is that majority of fights aren't long, and you would do better from damage-dealing perspective by multiclassing vancian/vancian or even straight single-classing an evoker, bloodmage or priest.

Also, since your focus generation is now decoupled from phys damage output, you can dump your Might, grab a shield, or wield heavier armor without repercussions. It sounds great to have such an cc-offtank, lets say multiclassed with trickster or wizard/bloodmage. But taking damage pauses focus generation. And this is a deal breaker for me. Imho, the could be some additional mechanics, where pausing does not occur if you have Concentration.

 

- Ancient: awesome summons available from level 1. Having such meat shields from the start of the game is really powerful. +1PL with plant/beast spells is a minor pleasant bonus, mainly felt with beast AoEs. But summons don't scale, and that PL bonus starts to struggle vs subclass cons.

 

- Tactician: staying power is awesome. I already used Aloth as unbroken/wizard; and while he had no problems with survivability, discipline was going down fast. So trading 1AR for more resources sounds like a nice deal. The only thing I heavily dislike about tactician is the accuracy penalty when attacking enemies that are not attacked in melee by other allies. A lot of spells he gonna use in my party are AoE CC, and I have no means to melee all enemies, such that tactician doesn't get this malus. Changing from "-1PEN, -5ACC" to "-2PEN" would be great imo.

 

- Forbidden Fist: Enfeeble is awesome. Having unreliable resource generation is not. Theoretically there are possible some shenanigans, like: equiping hostile effect reduction equipment, getting high RES, Clarity of Agony and a berskerker/trickster who would be affecting the monk with periodic stuff. But at +1wound/+14hp per effect expired it doesn't even look that stellar in order to go for it.

 

- Steel Garrote: 4.5s recovery and 2 zeal for a 6s paralyze... Ehh, either lower recovery, or lower cost, or attach a primary attack. Otherwise I will usually just use FoD and LoH instead. As for 15% weapon damage taken as healing - it's a nice bonus. Not as good as Wayfarer's White Flames while using two weapons in a 5-man party context... but it still gonna be useful, for example for multi-classes with rogue, and especially if someone wants to solo, but is tired of goldpact.

 

- Priest of Woedica: it doesn't strike me as stellar, but this subclass has a few really unique stuff. Being able to enfeeble is great; as is being able to disable spells or abilities without having to deal with affliction resistances and immunities. Regarding summoned fists: they are really strong while their double-scaling is not fixed; but after that they will be just ok. So there is that.

 

 

.. to be continued, if I have time.

Edited December 14, 2018 by MaxQuest

[mukurome]

Did someone tested this new chanter subclass PL ? it's universal ? from my test it do nothing :/

Edited December 14, 2018 by mukurome

[Domokun84]

Did someone tested this new chanter subclass PL ? it's universal ? from my test it do nothing :/

No, bellower PL is for chanter invocations only. It says it on the tool tip but can be easily misconstrued. I was hoping for a plus 3 PL to my evoker too. When you get three phrases your wiz PL will not go up.

[Gregorovich]

Among the subclasses I've tried:

 

Tier 1: Blood Mage, Furyshaper; both are now my favorite subclasses inside the classes

 

Tier 2: Arcane Archer, Steel Garrote

 

Tier 3: Forbidden Fist, Ancient, Bellower(before 1 PL patch)

[Breckmoney]

I don’t know that Psion is necessarily “good,” but I’m finding it to be very fun multiclassed with a priest in my current game.

[Gregorovich]

 

1) Everybody have different playstyles. I tend to dislike ranged and will therefore say that melee class X is better than ranged class Y. Because!

I often play classes and class combinations, which are unpopular.

 

I haven't even tried Tactician.

I don't like Streetfighter (Burn him, the demon has invaded his mind!)

I like barb/furyshaper more than monk (Burned twice and one more to be sure he never ressurrects)

I played three Troubadours to summon an army (Burn, not sure why )

 

I love ranged over melee. Because!

[Raven Darkholme]

Tactician/Any Wizard is by far the strongest for solo play, brilliant on mages is just insane and you counter the ACC/PEN penalty with Phantom.

Chanter also looks good, but haven't tested it.

Blood Mage is nice, but not necessarily better than empower Mages.

[guildwriter]

Tactician/Any Wizard is by far the strongest for solo play, brilliant on mages is just insane and you counter the ACC/PEN penalty with Phantom.

 

That would be true if summons engaged.  Since they don't it doesn't stop the penalty.

[Raven Darkholme]

 

Tactician/Any Wizard is by far the strongest for solo play, brilliant on mages is just insane and you counter the ACC/PEN penalty with Phantom.

 

That would be true if summons engaged.  Since they don't it doesn't stop the penalty.

 

Not true in my game, they engage and I get rid of the penalty.

Unless I have a reach weapon equipped and summon them to far away.

(Happened to me today, but easily fixed it after.)

[Yosharian]

 

.. to be continued, if I have time.

Could you tell us what you think of Blood Mage?

 

Additionally, which do you think is better for Bloodmage Warlock, Berserker or Furyshaper? (Physical 2H damage dealer)

[Kaylon]

Steel Garrote, Priest of Woedica, Blood Mage and Arcane Archer are the most solid because their drawbacks can easily be countered.

Tactician, Ancient, Fury Shaper have big drawbacks and lots of things can go wrong easily for them.

Psion, Debonnaire, Forbidden Fist and Belower are just worse than their base class.

[Stardusk78]

I am playing a single class bloodmage now as Moongod like, between multiple healing auras and the godlike abilities I pretty much have unlimited access to spells. I wanted to see the bloodmage potential as single class first but the Tactician/Bloodmage sounds pretty badass. I might make Aloth that multiclass for another play through.

[Stardusk78]

 

.. to be continued, if I have time.

Could you tell us what you think of Blood Mage?

 

Additionally, which do you think is better for Bloodmage Warlock, Berserker or Furyshaper? (Physical 2H damage dealer)

 

I am running a single class Bloodmage Moon Godlike with several healing auras. I essentially have unlimited spells. Most people seem to report that Tactician works well with it but I doubt Beserker would because of the continuous damage.

[QuiteGoneJin]

Steel Garrote, Priest of Woedica, Blood Mage and Arcane Archer are the most solid because their drawbacks can easily be countered.

Tactician, Ancient, Fury Shaper have big drawbacks and lots of things can go wrong easily for them.

Psion, Debonnaire, Forbidden Fist and Belower are just worse than their base class.

And how do you shore up the weaknesses of Arcane Archer? What multi makes them strong etc.

[Kaylon]

 

Steel Garrote, Priest of Woedica, Blood Mage and Arcane Archer are the most solid because their drawbacks can easily be countered.

Tactician, Ancient, Fury Shaper have big drawbacks and lots of things can go wrong easily for them.

Psion, Debonnaire, Forbidden Fist and Belower are just worse than their base class.

And how do you shore up the weaknesses of Arcane Archer? What multi makes them strong etc.

 

There are enough strong weapons (Dragon's Dowry, Essence Interrupter, Thundercrack Pistol, Frostseeker) that give no penalty to the arcane archer. You get basically some strong attacks for free and this is probably the best subclass for a ranged ranger.

[MaxQuest]

Could you tell us what you think of Blood Mage?

I think that if used instead of standard wizard, blood mage will underperform under usual scenarios.

Because often enough the fight will end before the wizard runs out of spells.

Also a wizard can just tap empower and get back half of his resources.

 

What would a level 20 blood mage need to do in order to regain 9 spell usages? Blood Sacrifice 9 times. I.e. lose time and health on tapping. And only past that point, he will start to out-resource the standard wizard. Provided that that wizard is not under brilliant inspiration.

 

Also to be noted that health cost is quite biting. I've just rechecked it, and there are 3 tiers:

tier1_dmg = [5 + 1 per CL] * dmg_bonuses

tier2_dmg = [10 + 2 per CL] * dmg_bonuses

tier3_dmg = [15 + 3 per CL] * dmg_bonuses

 

So if that level 20 blood mage has 20 MIG and wants to restore 9 spell usages... on average it will cost him 585hp.

And now there is also -15 defenses penalty vs bloodied enemies. And all enemies at some point will be going through bloodied phase...

 

 

But on the other hand Blood Mage has synergy with:

- monk (wound generation)

- streetfighter

- human race, moon godlike, death godlike and fire godlike

- death prevention effects - throw Barring Deaths Door and restore as much as you want, just don't forget to heal back

 

So there is that.

 

 

P.S. Since when is Deltro's Cage lash capped at 40%? (was trying some BS/Conduit shenanigans - unfortunately lash doesn't apply to BS self damage)

 

Additionally, which do you think is better for Bloodmage Warlock, Berserker or Furyshaper? (Physical 2H damage dealer)

For physical 2H damage dealer I think berserker would be a bit better choice.

Because of:

- +2 PER from tenacious

- having +2 AR from hardy, might be enough to not use Spirit Shield, and cast something else instead.

- bonus hit-to-crit conversion

- as a wizard you have means to deal with confused affliction

- self-dot from frenzy is probably not a problem if you already planned how to deal with Blood Sacrifice self-damage. Perhaps taking priests + shield-bearers? Potions of last stand, or deltro's armor and taking lightning damage?

 

 

Because of furyshaper's wards not dealing any damage, I mostly view him as a debuffer subclass. Jumps (daze), shouts, wards... and some multi-classing with a trickster or crowd-control inclined wizard (perhaps even blood mage). All that with dumped Might and onCrit items.

 

Tbh, I would built furyshaper as damage-dealer... (in parties where I couldn't get rid of berserkers' confuse)... but only if he had bonus accuracy vs beasts and vessels. Not spirits, since didn't feel that spirits are that numerous or troublesome in Deadfire.

Edited December 16, 2018 by MaxQuest

[guildwriter]

P.S. Since when is Deltro's Cage lash capped at 40%? (was trying some BS/Conduit shenanigans - unfortunately lash doesn't apply to BS self damage)

 

Been playing on the latest patch with some Deltro's Cage Helm shenanigans and have seen 142% and 172% lashes generated using Great Maelstrom scrolls. 

[Yosharian]

 

 

.. to be continued, if I have time.

Could you tell us what you think of Blood Mage?

 

Additionally, which do you think is better for Bloodmage Warlock, Berserker or Furyshaper? (Physical 2H damage dealer)

 

I am running a single class Bloodmage Moon Godlike with several healing auras. I essentially have unlimited spells. Most people seem to report that Tactician works well with it but I doubt Beserker would because of the continuous damage.

 

 

Doesn't Moon Godlike's healing aura only fire once per encounter?  That's not unlimited spells

 

I'm a little concerned about the Blood Mage's regeneration ability.  I suspect it might be too insignificant to impact on the game.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Yosharian

[Boeroer]

I think he didn't mean that Silver Tide leads to unlimited spells.

 

He was only saying that he has unlimited spells because he uses several healing auras (implying that the healing auras are capable of healing the health loss of the Bloodmage).

 

I guess he was speaking about healing auras of other party members, not ones the Bloodmage himself emits.

 

Blood Mage's regeneration ability stacks with other heals. It's great to have. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Boeroer

[Takkik]

Bloodmage regen is nice addition. Plus fighter regen (even limited) and some extra source of regen from a chanter/spell, you can use blood sacrifice and cast spells without a problem.

 

It's deadfire design. Bloodmage regen alone isn't enough, you need to add it to other source of regen.

[Yosharian]

It's pathetic, it's like 1hp per 6sec.  Not worth the -15 Defenses from Bloodied enemies, in my opinion.  I'm way more interested in the regeneration ability than I am the Blood Sacrifice ability.

 

I was interested in the Blood Mage initially but now I think I'll just go for standard Wizard instead.  Disappointing.

 

What's the best 2H weapon for a Warlock, anyway?  I'm looking at Chromoprismatic Quarterstaff... it seems quite amazing.

[Yosharian]

Bloodmage regen is nice addition. Plus fighter regen (even limited) and some extra source of regen from a chanter/spell, you can use blood sacrifice and cast spells without a problem.

 

It's deadfire design. Bloodmage regen alone isn't enough, you need to add it to other source of regen.

 

That's bad logic.  It's not a 'nice addition', it's barely impactful.  Paladin aura gives nearly 10x that amount, and doesn't come with a -15 Defenses drawback and loss of Empower.

 

I can simply not pick Blood Mage and still enjoy the far greater impact of those other regeneration abilities you mentioned.  Blood Mage regeneration barely registers.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Yosharian