Deadfire won't win RPG of the year (VGA's)

[Boeroer]

 

Funny how so many topics turn into DOS hate, are people really that butthurt that it sold much better than Deadfire? :D

 

lol "butthurt". are peeps still using that cringey adolescent sex-negative homophobic term in 2018? i love it.

 

I only use it when I hurt my butt. I mean literally. Like last week when I slipped on that iced corrugated iron roof and my butt hit the parapet wall.  

[InsaneCommander]

There is no reason to worry! There is treatment available.

[Boeroer]

I'd call that a classic overchill.

[Silvaren]

VGA is just stupid. Take 2015 for example.

 

Best RPG category with Bloodborne and Witcher 3 but without Age of Decadence, Shadowrun Dragonfall DC and Underrail.

 

And the winner was Witcher 3 with pointless open world and linear quest design, binary choices and rather small reactivity, almost non-interactive dialogs without roleplay options and with less lines to pick than provides BioWare's wheel. And they call it "story driven rpg" while at least 70% of the game is focused on pointless combat with trashmobs, borring point of (no) interest aka "?" and short sidequest - few minutes long with NPCs whoes name no one remembers. And the combat - you have many "different" swords, all have the same attack animation - and people hated that in first Mass Effect where every weapon had the same feeling. No game changers throughout entire game. And most people say Witcher 3 set new standards for entire RPG genre...

 

You guys remember side quests in Baldur's Gate II? Those set standarda. They were like huge, separated storylines. The same goes with Pillars 1&2 but even better in construction - multiple entry points, multiple solutions, it's just non linear design of quests. It's like BG scale with Fallout design rules. I think those are great standards. Reactivity in Pillars, Age of Decadence, Tides of Numenera or Shadowrun series.

 

Tim Cain said beautiful thing in the video about joining Microsoft. Some called RPG story driven games. "Obsidian makes player driven story". I'm sad because of sale numbers of Pillars 2. And VGA is terrible. It isn't about the best, but only about the most popular titlea. 2014 looked the same in RPG category.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Silvaren

[Ancelor]

Funny how so many topics turn into DOS hate, are people really that butthurt that it sold much better than Deadfire? :D

oh I am butthurt... Butthurt that such an amazing game is ruined by silly armor and level progression system.

Loved the world, the companions, the more serious note vs the original one.

At the end of the game I could barely bring myself to play it though.

Also I'm pretty sure that most gamers don't give  a damn about sales as long as a game is enjoyable.

[SonicMage117]

You guys remember side quests in Baldur's Gate II? Those set standarda. They were like huge, separated storylines. The same goes with Pillars 1&2 but even better in construction - multiple entry points, multiple solutions, it's just non linear design of quests. It's like BG scale with Fallout design rules. I think those are great standards. Reactivity in Pillars, Age of Decadenca, Tides of Numenera or Shadowruna

I think Planecape Torment handled it much better but fast forward thirty years in the games industry and we're seeing 3 person low-budget basement dwelling indie dev teams create better rpg's which span 8-14 hours with no filler. Sadly, they'll get overlooked/overshadowed but it's why I'm constantly checking YouTube for indoe games, the gems are just amazing in story emotion and relative theory.

Tim Cain said beautiful thing in the video about joining Microsoft. Some called RPG story driven games. "Obsidian makes player driven story". I'm sad because of sale numbers of Pillars 2. And VGA is terrible. It isn't about the best, but only about the most popular titlea. 2014 looked the same in RPG category.

Well, the VGA's are based on votes. It's not the head of the VGA's itself that is responsible for what you don't like or consider "quality" to be winning.

 

 

Sometimes there are rpg's have an edge in combat, mechanics, etc over being story-driven. Red Dead Redemption 2 for example, in an open world action game with more depth than even the most complex rpg's you've played. Anyway, if you truly care about what wins, you will vote or/and encourage others to vote. VOTE!

[anathanielh]

Can I vote for Skyrim?

[Manveru123]

VGA is just stupid. Take 2015 for example.

 

Best RPG category with Bloodborne and Witcher 3 but without Age of Decadence, Shadowrun Dragonfall DC and Underrail.

 

And the winner was Witcher 3 with pointless open world and linear quest design, binary choices and rather small reactivity, almost non-interactive dialogs without roleplay options and with less lines to pick than provides BioWare's wheel. And they call it "story driven rpg" while at least 70% of the game is focused on pointless combat with trashmobs, borring point of (no) interest aka "?" and short sidequest - few minutes long with NPCs whoes name no one remembers. And the combat - you have many "different" swords, all have the same attack animation - and people hated that in first Mass Effect where every weapon had the same feeling. No game changers throughout entire game. And most people say Witcher 3 set new standards for entire RPG genre...

 

You guys remember side quests in Baldur's Gate II? Those set standarda. They were like huge, separated storylines. The same goes with Pillars 1&2 but even better in construction - multiple entry points, multiple solutions, it's just non linear design of quests. It's like BG scale with Fallout design rules. I think those are great standards. Reactivity in Pillars, Age of Decadence, Tides of Numenera or Shadowrun series.

 

Tim Cain said beautiful thing in the video about joining Microsoft. Some called RPG story driven games. "Obsidian makes player driven story". I'm sad because of sale numbers of Pillars 2. And VGA is terrible. It isn't about the best, but only about the most popular titlea. 2014 looked the same in RPG category.

Not sure if serious, putting Witcher 3 and Underrail in the same basket :D

 

The thing is, Geralt is not a random hobo from Nowhere Town, like most rpg protagonists. He's a clearly defined character. You're not supposed to have many "role playing options". Witchers always use the same type of weapons and have a set fighting style, would you tell a basketball player to start kicking the ball? The combat was diverse enough, and sufficiently challenging on the higher difficulty levels.

 

It's a different kind of RPG, but the praise is well deserved. No other game has such well made characters and world. Yennefer, Triss, Dandelion, Yarpen, those are all very memorable characters. There were also multiple long sidequests during the storyline, too, but it seems you missed them somehow. Have you spent more than 15 minutes on the game?

 

BTW it won the next year too. With a god damn DLC. But it's Baldur's Gate and Pillars that set "standards" :D :D

Edited November 23, 2018 by Manveru123

[Manveru123]

 

Funny how so many topics turn into DOS hate, are people really that butthurt that it sold much better than Deadfire? :D

oh I am butthurt... Butthurt that such an amazing game is ruined by silly armor and level progression system.

Loved the world, the companions, the more serious note vs the original one.

At the end of the game I could barely bring myself to play it though.

Also I'm pretty sure that most gamers don't give  a damn about sales as long as a game is enjoyable.

 

Character's progression is not the hook for this game tho. I personally dislike most turn-based RPG games because I find combat boring, but DOS2 was surprisingly enjoyable. The characters were extremely well written.

 

I dunno what "most gamers" don't give a damn about, but sales are important to developers. You know, the people who make the games. The player's opinions are only relevant when the game sells like **** and they have to constantly patch it to try and salvage the failure, then give up and sell themselves to a big publisher.

[SonicMage117]

No other game has such well made characters and world. Yennefer, Triss, Dandelion, Yarpen, those are all very memorable characters. There were also multiple long sidequests during the storyline, too, but it seems you missed them somehow. Have you spent more than 15 minutes on the game?

 

BTW it won the next year too. With a god damn DLC. But it's Baldur's Gate and Pillars that set "standards" :D :D

Oh damn lol You sound like me.

 

Just be aware that this is indeed a Crpg based forum, most members here grew up with Infinity Engine games, but I agree. I think the best characters/stories in games are the ones that show relatability to humanity and relativism to their creative world. The gameplay could be horrible but if you have those things, you have a great game no matter what.

 

Oddly enough, one of my favorite rpg's of all time has a bad storyline, doesn't have any great characters, it's Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen. Just loved a lot if things in that game that made it unique.

[Ancelor]

 

 

Funny how so many topics turn into DOS hate, are people really that butthurt that it sold much better than Deadfire? :D

oh I am butthurt... Butthurt that such an amazing game is ruined by silly armor and level progression system.

Loved the world, the companions, the more serious note vs the original one.

At the end of the game I could barely bring myself to play it though.

Also I'm pretty sure that most gamers don't give  a damn about sales as long as a game is enjoyable.

 

Character's progression is not the hook for this game tho. I personally dislike most turn-based RPG games because I find combat boring, but DOS2 was surprisingly enjoyable. The characters were extremely well written.

 

I dunno what "most gamers" don't give a damn about, but sales are important to developers. You know, the people who make the games. The player's opinions are only relevant when the game sells like **** and they have to constantly patch it to try and salvage the failure, then give up and sell themselves to a big publisher.

 

 

Character progression is part of the hook for any rpg.

Combat as well.

And this game ruins both.

And I wouldn't even bother commenting if the game wasn't just brilliant in every other aspect which makes me sad.

Anyway, my point is that when I share an opinion it's just that, an opinion. It's not a sports discussion for example to be butthurt for my favorite team losing the game. If I don't like a game I simply ignore it

[Manveru123]

 

No other game has such well made characters and world. Yennefer, Triss, Dandelion, Yarpen, those are all very memorable characters. There were also multiple long sidequests during the storyline, too, but it seems you missed them somehow. Have you spent more than 15 minutes on the game?

 

BTW it won the next year too. With a god damn DLC. But it's Baldur's Gate and Pillars that set "standards" :D :D

Oh damn lol You sound like me.

 

Just be aware that this is indeed a Crpg based forum, most members here grew up with Infinity Engine games, but I agree. I think the best characters/stories in games are the ones that show relatability to humanity and relativism to their creative world. The gameplay could be horrible but if you have those things, you have a great game no matter what.

 

Oddly enough, one of my favorite rpg's of all time has a bad storyline, doesn't have any great characters, it's Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen. Just loved a lot if things in that game that made it unique.

 

I know. I'm quite old myself, I grew up with Crystals of Arborea and the rest of Ishar series, Eye of the Beholder.. I've seen it all. I've put hundreds and hundreds of hours in crpg titles. But that doesn't change the fact that I can appreciate other rpg genres if they deserve it, and Witcher 3 in particular, does.

I was thinking about trying Dragon's Dogma but the port was made by a company I used to work for, so my fingers are going to smell if I touch it :/ No but seriously, the PS4 version is on my radar.

 

 

 

 

Funny how so many topics turn into DOS hate, are people really that butthurt that it sold much better than Deadfire? :D

oh I am butthurt... Butthurt that such an amazing game is ruined by silly armor and level progression system.

Loved the world, the companions, the more serious note vs the original one.

At the end of the game I could barely bring myself to play it though.

Also I'm pretty sure that most gamers don't give  a damn about sales as long as a game is enjoyable.

 

Character's progression is not the hook for this game tho. I personally dislike most turn-based RPG games because I find combat boring, but DOS2 was surprisingly enjoyable. The characters were extremely well written.

 

I dunno what "most gamers" don't give a damn about, but sales are important to developers. You know, the people who make the games. The player's opinions are only relevant when the game sells like **** and they have to constantly patch it to try and salvage the failure, then give up and sell themselves to a big publisher.

 

 

Character progression is part of the hook for any rpg.

Combat as well.

And this game ruins both.

And I wouldn't even bother commenting if the game wasn't just brilliant in every other aspect which makes me sad.

Anyway, my point is that when I share an opinion it's just that, an opinion. It's not a sports discussion for example to be butthurt for my favorite team losing the game. If I don't like a game I simply ignore it

 

Diablo 3 has **** character progression and I have clocked over 1000 hours in it. While I personally love more complex character creation systems (especially if it allows massive multiclassing, like Pathfinder: Kingmaker), I'm not too mad if the game doesn't have them, as long as everything else is good.

As for combat, while it is truly a slugfest from time to time, you have to admit that it's rare for these kind of games to actually use enviroment during battles. I'm on the fence on this one personally.

I'm not really disagreeing with you, the difference in opinion is that weak character progression and so/so combat did not ruin the game for me

[Ancelor]

depends on the RPG definition then

 

 

 

No other game has such well made characters and world. Yennefer, Triss, Dandelion, Yarpen, those are all very memorable characters. There were also multiple long sidequests during the storyline, too, but it seems you missed them somehow. Have you spent more than 15 minutes on the game?

BTW it won the next year too. With a god damn DLC. But it's Baldur's Gate and Pillars that set "standards" :D :D

Oh damn lol You sound like me.

Just be aware that this is indeed a Crpg based forum, most members here grew up with Infinity Engine games, but I agree. I think the best characters/stories in games are the ones that show relatability to humanity and relativism to their creative world. The gameplay could be horrible but if you have those things, you have a great game no matter what.

Oddly enough, one of my favorite rpg's of all time has a bad storyline, doesn't have any great characters, it's Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen. Just loved a lot if things in that game that made it unique.

 

I know. I'm quite old myself, I grew up with Crystals of Arborea and the rest of Ishar series, Eye of the Beholder.. I've seen it all. I've put hundreds and hundreds of hours in crpg titles. But that doesn't change the fact that I can appreciate other rpg genres if they deserve it, and Witcher 3 in particular, does.

I was thinking about trying Dragon's Dogma but the port was made by a company I used to work for, so my fingers are going to smell if I touch it :/ No but seriously, the PS4 version is on my radar.

 

 

 

 

Funny how so many topics turn into DOS hate, are people really that butthurt that it sold much better than Deadfire? :D

oh I am butthurt... Butthurt that such an amazing game is ruined by silly armor and level progression system.

Loved the world, the companions, the more serious note vs the original one.

At the end of the game I could barely bring myself to play it though.

Also I'm pretty sure that most gamers don't give  a damn about sales as long as a game is enjoyable.

 

Character's progression is not the hook for this game tho. I personally dislike most turn-based RPG games because I find combat boring, but DOS2 was surprisingly enjoyable. The characters were extremely well written.

 

I dunno what "most gamers" don't give a damn about, but sales are important to developers. You know, the people who make the games. The player's opinions are only relevant when the game sells like **** and they have to constantly patch it to try and salvage the failure, then give up and sell themselves to a big publisher.

 

 

Character progression is part of the hook for any rpg.

Combat as well.

And this game ruins both.

And I wouldn't even bother commenting if the game wasn't just brilliant in every other aspect which makes me sad.

Anyway, my point is that when I share an opinion it's just that, an opinion. It's not a sports discussion for example to be butthurt for my favorite team losing the game. If I don't like a game I simply ignore it

 

Diablo 3 has **** character progression and I have clocked over 1000 hours in it. While I personally love more complex character creation systems (especially if it allows massive multiclassing, like Pathfinder: Kingmaker), I'm not too mad if the game doesn't have them, as long as everything else is good.

As for combat, while it is truly a slugfest from time to time, you have to admit that it's rare for these kind of games to actually use enviroment during battles. I'm on the fence on this one personally.

I'm not really disagreeing with you, the difference in opinion is that weak character progression and so/so combat did not ruin the game for me

 

It depends on the definition of the RPG then.

Diablo 3 is an action game with RPG elements and to be honest the fanbase was furious especially because of the level progression and customization.

As for combat all I'm against for is armor and hard cc after it's gone. I think the first game got it right with bodybuilding and willpower saves.

Anyway one thing that was really good was modding. You could bring the game to almost every state you wanted

[Manveru123]

Well RPGs have many sub-genres. I mean Monster Hunter is on this list but I'd not call it an RPG. Yet apparently it is (and has a good chance of winning, too). This is highly confusing, so most of the time I just use cRPG, tRPG, aRPG and jRPG, I can easily slap any game to any of these, but then again I end up with Diablo 3 and Witcher 3 in the same category ._.

 

The D3 fanbase first went ape**** over Real Money Auction House, and then really poor endgame. When it comes to character progression, the game is leagues ahead of D2, and yet most fans seem to consider D2 to be a better game. I'm not really sure why, I never found spamming one button to be a particulary engaging gameplay.

 

The thing with saves is that they're random. You can fail the save or not. Armor gives you actual numerical value that you have to cross. I look at it as RNG vs strategy and greatly prefer the latter, I have enough RNG in mobile games

[Ancelor]

Difference between witcher and diablo is that in the later you actually roleplay.

You make choices.

You play a character.

 

As for DOS2's combat you may be right at some level but once armor is depleted is a constant cc lock without any luck of changing anything.

the game is essentially a race to eat each other's armor and after that is game over.

anyway, I'm derailing the thread.

You get what I'm saying anyway.

[Boeroer]

If you don't play as yourself you always play a role. So Witcher is a role playing game. I mean unless you are Gerald of Riva playing the Witcher series of course...

Edited November 23, 2018 by Boeroer

[Franknstein]

Yo, it's just like the role has been beaten to death by 8 (!) books and 3 games. Witcher. Witcher never changes.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Franknstein

[SonicMage117]

I mean unless you are Gerald of Riva playing the Witcher series of course...

I always thought it was spelt Geralt for some reason.

[Manveru123]

That's because it is.

 

 

If you don't play as yourself you always play a role. So Witcher is a role playing game. I mean unless you are Gerald of Riva playing the Witcher series of course...

Technically in every single game you "play a role", regardless of its genre.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Manveru123

[Boeroer]

Explain that to my phone.

[Cartoons Plural]

And the winner was Witcher 3 with pointless open world and linear quest design, binary choices and rather small reactivity, almost non-interactive dialogs without roleplay options and with less lines to pick than provides BioWare's wheel. And they call it "story driven rpg" while at least 70% of the game is focused on pointless combat with trashmobs, borring point of (no) interest aka "?" and short sidequest - few minutes long with NPCs whoes name no one remembers. And the combat - you have many "different" swords, all have the same attack animation - and people hated that in first Mass Effect where every weapon had the same feeling. No game changers throughout entire game. And most people say Witcher 3 set new standards for entire RPG genre...

 

i played a little bit of witcher 3 and i could tell early on that it was a more attractive looking skyrim with a better script but also with batman mechanics. he even has that detective vision lmao. i really cannot understand how so many people are like wow this is like the pinnacle of gaming a very basic batman controller mechanics and unlock system spun off into mad max and fantasy. its really straight console gaming for people that want to play games that feel like movies. they think the closer the game is to being like a movie "you" star in the better it is

 

i want to play a game, i also like having a squad anyway

 

*banging on table* where is my mass effect tactics

Edited November 23, 2018 by Cartoons Plural

[Manveru123]

Explain that to my phone.

Sounds like a very interesting conversation. Then you see Galaxy of Heroes and Brave Exvius "Mobile game" no longer means "another Candy Crush ripoff".

 

Every single game was perhaps too much, but consider, if all you need to do is play a role, then suddenly Tony Hawk's Pro Skater is RPG. Football Manager is RPG. Hell, every platformer game ever is RPG. And every point-and-click adventure too.

[Boeroer]

What I really meant was that you should explain the correct spelling of Geralt of Riva to my phone...

[house2fly]

 

And the winner was Witcher 3 with pointless open world and linear quest design, binary choices and rather small reactivity, almost non-interactive dialogs without roleplay options and with less lines to pick than provides BioWare's wheel. And they call it "story driven rpg" while at least 70% of the game is focused on pointless combat with trashmobs, borring point of (no) interest aka "?" and short sidequest - few minutes long with NPCs whoes name no one remembers. And the combat - you have many "different" swords, all have the same attack animation - and people hated that in first Mass Effect where every weapon had the same feeling. No game changers throughout entire game. And most people say Witcher 3 set new standards for entire RPG genre...

i played a little bit of witcher 3 and i could tell early on that it was a more attractive looking skyrim with a better script but also with batman mechanics. he even has that detective vision lmao. i really cannot understand how so many people are like wow this is like the pinnacle of gaming a very basic batman controller mechanics and unlock system spun off into mad max and fantasy. its really straight console gaming for people that want to play games that feel like movies. they think the closer the game is to being like a movie "you" star in the better it is

 

i want to play a game, i also like having a squad anyway

 

*banging on table* where is my mass effect tactics

to be fair, by RPG standards Witcher 3 combat is pretty good. It's in a rare category of RPGs that do full-on real-time combat- off the top of my head Alpha Protocol, Mass Effect, Dragon's Dogma and the Soulslike genre are the main other ones which do it, and if you take the Soulslikes out then Witcher 3 doesn't look bad at all

[SonicMage117]

What I really meant was that you should explain the correct spelling of Geralt of Riva to my phone...

Ohhh I get what you mean now, that happens to me all the time, I spell better in real life writing than on my phone with auto-correct. Strangely I spell alot of things wrong just by typing fast and I think it's due to lag in which the phone jumps and incorrectly presses on.