The Political Thread - Hobbes Edition

[Gfted1]

I'll hazard a guess they included it so it couldn't easily be revoked or suppressed depending on who is in charge and which way the wind was currently blowing

Well sure but that can be said about everything, right? I mean, the (US) separatists had already enjoyed ~81 years of "free press" (their entire lives they knew no different), so I wonder what triggered the need to enshrine that specific entity in the constitution when it was never under threat.

[Elerond]

Consideirng much of the media - and this includes  right wing ones like Fox - spend a lot of their time mocking and belittling people including their own viewers that makes it even more laughable. The media hasn't been beholden to the people or the truth for a very long time.

 

It used to be  reporter would sniff a story and investgate to find facts and report said facts.

 

Now, they create a story  and only report things that backs up their opinion while eschewing or ignoring facts that don't back them up.

 

 

Notice how nobody outside of Fox (TO MY KNOWLEDGE) has talked about Carlson Tucker's family and house being targeted and threatened by never do wells and the ones who do tend to claim he deserved it. And, the one well known 'lefty' who slammed the miscreants was quickly labeled racist, Nazi, and evil. LOLZ

 

That was in time when people were main source of media's income, this days media gets most of its money from other sources so serving of people also has dropped in their priorities.

 

Quite lot of journalists get threats daily but such threats aren't news worthy even for their own employers because they aren't millionaires like Tucker. Even here people seemed some years ago be quite supporting against threats against certain journalists who write articles about gamers and gaming industry which they didn't like.

[Malcador]

Maybe it was meant literally in the First Amendment, so speech is speech and press is printed word.

[ShadySands]

Sure, but why protect anything at all then by that logic? 

 

From that same wiki link

 

Thirteen Colonies

In the Thirteen Colonies before the signing of the Declaration of Independence, the media was subject to a series of regulations. British authorities attempted to prohibit the publication and circulation of information of which they did not approve.

 

One of the earliest cases concerning freedom of the press occurred in 1734. In a libel case against The New York Weekly Journal publisher John Peter Zenger by British governor William Cosby, Zenger was acquitted and the publication continued until 1751. At that time, there were only two newspapers in New York City and the second was not critical of Cosby's government.

 

PS I'm not trying to be snarky, I just don't understand your position

Edited November 13, 2018 by ShadySands

[HoonDing]

i bet Trump lit that fire himself

[Gfted1]

I get the impression that people today feel that "the press" is there for them to prevent disinformation from "the government". Why do they feel that way in light of "the press" having zero oversight? Hell, there isnt even an "honor system".

[Malcador]

https://digitalcommons.law.umaryland.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=2503&context=mlr

 

Might be interesting reading.

[Amentep]

I get the impression that people today feel that "the press" is there for them to prevent disinformation from "the government". Why do they feel that way in light of "the press" having zero oversight? Hell, there isnt even an "honor system".

 

Its probably tied to the presentation of the press as the fourth estate that can act as a balance between the other three estates (in the US, the three estates aren't exactly as described by Burke and Carlyle, but has represented the three branches of government).

 

My thought is that the legal system is the oversight for the US press, as they could be sued in various circumstances if they aren't legitimate in their reporting.

 

Also the press doesn't always prevent disinformation from "the government" since there is historical evidence of the press spreading governmental propaganda in times of war or omitting things on behalf of the government (like the US press never reporting on or showing FDR's wheelchair).

[Hurlshort]

 

Trump may have a bit of a point about fire management- fires in Australia and California are 100% natural and 100% inevitable even if some are started deliberately; the problem is people having houses in the fire prone areas and, historically at least, governments trying to stop all fires. The biggest fire preventer in a an  area is to have had a recent fire as that clears underbrush and the like, but controlled burns tend to be unpopular due to smoke and you get in trouble if the wind changes direction and strength and the fire jumps a break.

 

 

Trump's point breaks down a bit when you realize the State only owns about 2% of the forested areas, while the Federal Government owns 30+ percent. Plus grasslands are a big part of the problem, which is a different issue altogether.The idea that is just mismanagement is a gross simplification, but hey, Trump gets a lot of political points by blaming California for stuff.

 

Did Bush Jr. blame Louisiana when they flooded during Katrina? I mean, I remember Kanye getting upset about something.

[Raithe]

 

"hey, let's ignore the rules and strip press of white house credentials if they offend the President"

What would be the point of credentials if they cannot be given or revoked?

This is lunacy.

And as far as I know Freedom of press gives them freedom to publish any information not to get information.

 

 

The point is there is a set procedure on how you go about removing the credentials of a member of the white house press, and they ignored them.

The member of press gets a notice, they get told why, they get to present a defence, and then they get removed.  With this, none of that actually took place. A member of the press offended the President with some questions, boom. They get removed.

 

Now, if the President has the power to randomly remove the press from the White House because of that, how many Journalists will ask him questions he might not like?  That's a bad precedent and creates a certain aura of intimidation of the press which reduces the nature of free speech.

[Zoraptor]

 

 

Trump may have a bit of a point about fire management- fires in Australia and California are 100% natural and 100% inevitable even if some are started deliberately; the problem is people having houses in the fire prone areas and, historically at least, governments trying to stop all fires. The biggest fire preventer in a an  area is to have had a recent fire as that clears underbrush and the like, but controlled burns tend to be unpopular due to smoke and you get in trouble if the wind changes direction and strength and the fire jumps a break.

 

 

Trump's point breaks down a bit when you realize the State only owns about 2% of the forested areas, while the Federal Government owns 30+ percent. Plus grasslands are a big part of the problem, which is a different issue altogether.The idea that is just mismanagement is a gross simplification, but hey, Trump gets a lot of political points by blaming California for stuff.

 

Did Bush Jr. blame Louisiana when they flooded during Katrina? I mean, I remember Kanye getting upset about something.

 

 

Yeah, I don't think Trump's 'point' is very strong and isn't mostly taking shots at a state that didn't vote for him, just that it isn't as wholly unreasonable as most have made out. I'd also imagine that the fire management at state level wasn't any better when, say, Arnie was Governor. I presume California is responsible for allowing building in particularly fire prone areas, though, albeit that sort of thing seems to happen everywhere.

 

IIRC while Louisiana didn't get criticism over Katrina they did criticise the Democrat run New Orleans city administration quite a lot.

[injurai]

Good riddance. "The press" isnt beholden to be truthful or even factually accurate. Its no different than a glorified internet message board. Im not sure why people think "the press" is there for "the people".

 

Agreed, the media and the press are flawed actors. Still, blanket attacks against the journalist class is very dangerous and we are seeing a turn against journalist at the moment around the world.

[Volourn]

Journalist 'class'. It is a job. Not a 'class'. COME ON.

[injurai]

There is a specific economic sense of class, and there is the more fundamental sense of a class. Class of bacteria, class of 1985, class of suspension bridges. Analogous to a set, category, collection, group, demographic, population.

[ShadySands]

Journalist is best class, +2 to armor.

[Gfted1]

Now, if the President has the power to randomly remove the press from the White House because of that, how many Journalists will ask him questions he might not like?  That's a bad precedent and creates a certain aura of intimidation of the press which reduces the nature of free speech.

Remove them all and put a microphone in their place. They may take that information and report whatever they like. Win/win. I cant believe nobody thought of this before so there must be some other loophole that they crawl through.

[Malcador]

 

Now, if the President has the power to randomly remove the press from the White House because of that, how many Journalists will ask him questions he might not like?  That's a bad precedent and creates a certain aura of intimidation of the press which reduces the nature of free speech.

Remove them all and put a microphone in their place. They may take that information and report whatever they like. Win/win. I cant believe nobody thought of this before so there must be some other loophole that they crawl through.

 

 

Someone has to ask questions though.

[Gfted1]

Is that right enshrined in the constitution too? Usually will make some speech and then field a few questions and ignore whatever questions they dont like. Asking those questions in real-time is an inalienable right?

[Raithe]

Regional News - State Senator, Protestors arrested at capitol hill while demanding "every vote count"

 

 

A first-term Atlanta senator was among more than a dozen demonstrators who were arrested during a protest in the state Capitol.

State Sen. Nikema Williams, D-Atlanta, said she was standing with her constituents when officers led her out of the Capitol rotunda and placed plastic restraints on her wrists.

 

 

“I was not yelling. I was not chanting,” she said. “I stood peacefully next to my constituents because they wanted their voices to be heard, and now I’m being arrested.”

Williams said she was handcuffed after she “refused to disperse” from the rotunda.

Williams is charged with obstruction, Capitol police said. She was released on a signature bond after being detained for about five hours.

Williams said she felt as though she was targeted for standing with protesters concerned about voter suppression.

“I stood with constituents to demand that their voices be heard and countless other Georgians who cast ballots on last Tuesday and thought that their votes were counted and are learning now that they’re not,” she said after her release. “I will continue to stand with the citizens of Georgia — and any citizen — to demand that their votes be counted, because that is the bedrock of our democracy.”

 

The other 14 protesters are charged with disrupting the General Assembly.

The protest in the rotunda under the Gold Dome was organized by a local Black Lives Matter group to pressure state officials to ensure all absentee and provisional ballots are tallied in the governor’s race between Stacey Abrams and Brian Kemp. Kemp has declared victory.

Occasionally, the group of roughly 100 people broke into chants of “count every vote.”

 

Authorities said the demonstration was broken up after several warnings because of rules that prohibit chanting or yelling while lawmakers are in session. Police armed with stacks of plastic restraints circled the protesters as the clocked neared 1:30 p.m.,when the House convened for a special session called by Gov. Nathan Deal.

Capitol police said they arrested 15 people, including Williams, who are accused of violating state code that prohibits disruption of “orderly conduct of official business.”

Edited November 14, 2018 by Raithe

[Guard Dog]

Journalist is best class, +2 to armor.

-2 to Charisma in some locales, +2 in others. 

[Guard Dog]

An all volunteer group in Kansas City that was cooking hot meals for the homeless during the first real cold weather of they ear has been shut down by the government. Not only did they shut down the effort they confiscated all the food and destroyed it by soaking it in bleach. Why? The group did not humbly beg permission on bended knee from the government, and offer them payment of tribute in the form of a license to go out and feed hungry people. 

 

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article221122480.html

 

Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one. -Thomas Paine
 

[Malcador]

An all volunteer group in Kansas City that was cooking hot meals for the homeless during the first real cold weather of they ear has been shut down by the government. Not only did they shut down the effort they confiscated all the food and destroyed it by soaking it in bleach. Why? The group did not humbly beg permission on bended knee from the government, and offer them payment of tribute in the form of a license to go out and feed hungry people. 

 

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article221122480.html

 

Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one. -Thomas Paine

 

 

Seems like they just hate homeless in KC.

[Guard Dog]

 

An all volunteer group in Kansas City that was cooking hot meals for the homeless during the first real cold weather of they ear has been shut down by the government. Not only did they shut down the effort they confiscated all the food and destroyed it by soaking it in bleach. Why? The group did not humbly beg permission on bended knee from the government, and offer them payment of tribute in the form of a license to go out and feed hungry people. 

 

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article221122480.html

 

Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one. -Thomas Paine

 

 

Seems like they just hate homeless in KC.

 

No they hate what all governments hate: independent action. No good shall come but through them, by action or permission. Machiavelli said it best: “Thus a wise prince will think of ways to keep his citizens of every sort and under every circumstance dependent on the state and on him; and then they will always be trustworthy”

 

The purpose of government is not the benefit of the citizens. Rather it is the preservation of it's own existence. 

[Gfted1]

*sigh*

 

Unlicensed vendors put Kern County customers at risk for food-borne illnesses.

 

Unlicensed vendor source of food-borne illness at Rifle Rodeo.

 

Independent action at its finest.

[Malcador]

Never mind, if they hated the homeless I suppose they would let them eat potentially tainted food. Or at least not to want them all dead and ill, rather than driven off