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The Political Thread - Hobbes Edition


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#1
Amentep

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start of old thread

end of old thread

 


That was my point. Arent 100% of bills ---> laws voted on?

And the Feds came up with the drinking and smoking ages.

 
 


Ahhh, I see now, I thought you were talking about the lack of a popular vote in the states on the law, that instead the states were forced to over-ride local laws or face funding cuts and I was just trying to be annoyingly funny.

So yes, you are correct! :)

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#2
ShadySands

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We vote by mail and I can highly recommend it


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#3
Hurlshot

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Well I was 6 when the feds regulated booze and smokes, so pardon my ignorance. :p I thought Louisiana was 18, but it seems like there are a few states using loopholes: https://en.m.wikiped...se_age_by_state

Back to voter fraud, the problem is the scale. You aren't going to really influence an election with a handful of votes. If someone managed to find a bunch of people who werent voting, and then ran around to every precinct to cast those votes, how much are they actually swinging the results? Statistically it is going to be minimal. You need widespread fraud to really influence an election, not just a couple dead guy votes.

So why is the ID check really needed?

 

 

edit: Also, it's a **** move to post the Schoolhouse Rock video. I thought we were having a good discussion about voting fraud in this country. You don't need to be an **** about it. I'm not talking down to you, you don't need to talk down to me. 


Edited by Hurlshot, 16 October 2018 - 08:07 AM.


#4
smjjames

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So why is the ID check really needed?

 

Conservatives: Voter ID is needed because voter fraud.

 

That is literally their reason, I haven't heard any reason given (other than outright admissions of voter supprression) besides that.

 

On the surface, voter ID sounds reasonable, but the problem is that it tends to disadvantage the poor and minorities and on top of that, voter suppression has been used in the past. So, really, the problem is a lack of trust on the part of activists, liberals, and minorities due to the past history and the fact that studies haven't proven the 'widespread fraud in the thousands or hundreds of thousands' that Republicans claim but have yet to provide concrete proof of.

 

Remember the voting fraud commission that Trump made and disbanded? They couldn't even find the proof they were looking for and were actually planning on cherrypicking or possibly even manufacturing their own data to back Trumps claims.


Edited by smjjames, 16 October 2018 - 08:16 AM.


#5
Amentep

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Supposedly the worst voter fraud was in local elections anyhow, not national elections, where the voter pools were smaller and thus easier to influence, e.g. the Tammany Hall repeaters who were paid by Boss Tweed's machine to vote for Tweed and Tweed backed candidates on behalf of deceased voters.



#6
smjjames

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Yeah, the 19th century was notorious for those kinds of voting sheneinigans. It's true that voter fraud would be a bigger problem for local elections just because of the smaller pool, but, again, those crying voter fraud haven't provided proof that it's happening on a large scale now.



#7
Gfted1

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edit: Also, it's a **** move to post the Schoolhouse Rock video. I thought we were having a good discussion about voting fraud in this country. You don't need to be an **** about it. I'm not talking down to you, you don't need to talk down to me.


My bad. I occasionally, wrongly, assume that certain US things are common knowledge to US residents. I need to heed my own advice and assume nobody knows nothin' about nothin' until I spell it out. Its just exhausting is all and then I lose interest. Chalk it up to my many many personality flaws. :thumbsup:

#8
Chilloutman

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So why is the ID check really needed?

 

Conservatives: Voter ID is needed because voter fraud.

 

That is literally their reason, I haven't heard any reason given (other than outright admissions of voter supprression) besides that.

 

On the surface, voter ID sounds reasonable, but the problem is that it tends to disadvantage the poor and minorities and on top of that, voter suppression has been used in the past. So, really, the problem is a lack of trust on the part of activists, liberals, and minorities due to the past history and the fact that studies haven't proven the 'widespread fraud in the thousands or hundreds of thousands' that Republicans claim but have yet to provide concrete proof of.

 

Remember the voting fraud commission that Trump made and disbanded? They couldn't even find the proof they were looking for and were actually planning on cherrypicking or possibly even manufacturing their own data to back Trumps claims.

 

 

yeah yeah, poor and minorities walking around in newest Jordans with Iponds in their pockets for sure can't afford 20 bucks once in 8 years for ID.



#9
ShadySands

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The length the driver's ID lasts depends on the state and also there are multiple types of IDs that people may have depending on their circumstances and not all are valid all across the board



#10
Hurlshot

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edit: Also, it's a **** move to post the Schoolhouse Rock video. I thought we were having a good discussion about voting fraud in this country. You don't need to be an **** about it. I'm not talking down to you, you don't need to talk down to me.


My bad. I occasionally, wrongly, assume that certain US things are common knowledge to US residents. I need to heed my own advice and assume nobody knows nothin' about nothin' until I spell it out. Its just exhausting is all and then I lose interest. Chalk it up to my many many personality flaws. :thumbsup:

 

 

Why would the legal history of alcohol and cigarettes in Georgia be common knowledge to US residents? 

 

I said: 

 

 

Oddly enough, there was probably a vote to restrict those products to certain ages.

 

Which is true. Most states have voted on various restrictions on those products.



#11
Malcador

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yeah yeah, poor and minorities walking around in newest Jordans with Iponds in their pockets for sure can't afford 20 bucks once in 8 years for ID.


You sure that all the poor are like that ? Did see one article that gave an example of a guy whose birth certificate was in paper but got lost in the county office and that'd cost money and time to resolve - which wasn't practical for him. So is ancillary costs to consider as well.

I guess moving forward it shouldn't be too bothersome to find supporting documentation, etc. for kids born in 80's, 90s' (even with the US' backward ways :p).

Should institute national service - then you get a free ID card that way :lol:

#12
injurai

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So I'm moving states next week, and will arrive unregistered with the registration deadline already behind me. I'm counting myself as a disenfranchised voter this year.



#13
Gfted1

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Why would the legal history of alcohol and cigarettes in Georgia be common knowledge to US residents?


wat? Both of our links clearly state that these laws affect the entire US. If you want to claim ignorance, especially of these two topics, then I have nothing else for you. :shrugz:

#14
Gfted1

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So I'm moving states next week, and will arrive unregistered with the registration deadline already behind me. I'm counting myself as a disenfranchised voter this year.


Do you even need an ID to get into the US? I mean, really, illegal immigration by Europeans is a statistical outlier and can be safely ignored. :lol:

#15
Chilloutman

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yeah yeah, poor and minorities walking around in newest Jordans with Iponds in their pockets for sure can't afford 20 bucks once in 8 years for ID.


You sure that all the poor are like that ? Did see one article that gave an example of a guy whose birth certificate was in paper but got lost in the county office and that'd cost money and time to resolve - which wasn't practical for him. So is ancillary costs to consider as well.

I guess moving forward it shouldn't be too bothersome to find supporting documentation, etc. for kids born in 80's, 90s' (even with the US' backward ways :p).

Should institute national service - then you get a free ID card that way :lol:

 

 

Whole Europe managed to do it, I am sure US will once too



#16
HoonDing

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DpgZ7-EWwAAMPEK.jpg


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#17
Hurlshot

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Why would the legal history of alcohol and cigarettes in Georgia be common knowledge to US residents?


wat? Both of our links clearly state that these laws affect the entire US. If you want to claim ignorance, especially of these two topics, then I have nothing else for you. :shrugz:

 

That doesn't mean there isn't a history of voting on the restriction of them. You are assuming ignorance while ignoring my actual statement. Again, you are talking down. You've also completely ignored the fraud stuff so you can have a little pissing contest about how much smarter you are. So yeah, I guess we are done having actual discussions on stuff. 



#18
Gfted1

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Cool, cool. :thumbsup:



#19
aluminiumtrioxid

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DpgZ7-EWwAAMPEK.jpg

 

 

I hate this image so much.

 

why is the output of your function an argument of it


Edited by aluminiumtrioxid, 16 October 2018 - 10:06 AM.

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#20
Volourn

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"but the problem is that it tends to disadvantage the poor and minorities and on top of that"

 

Oh come on. Stop that bigotry talk.   Are you saying minorities can't go get idea because they ain't capable? And, define, 'poor'. Most people defined as 'poor' have  ID or acces of getting it.

 

 

This 'it's hard on minorities' is bullocks. It is insulting to minorities that implies theya re less than capable. Plenty of minority people can  get ID just fine.  If a bunch of dumb white people can do it so can others.






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