POLL - MOST POWERFUL AND WEAKEST CLASS POST PATCH 3.00

[bigbazoopa]

Really interested in seeing these results. No spoilers please so it stays in this forum I dont want it getting moved because the General discussion part seems to get the most amount of traffic.

 

So please answer based on your opinion about how powerful the class is and not other factors like how fun or boring the class is to play or how buggy the class is or anything like that.

 

Please vote away!

 

Also feel free to explain why you voted the way you did! We live in a democracy after all !! (apologies if you live in China or NK!)

 

I voted most powerful Wizzy for obvious reasons and weakest Priest as IMO they are to limited in choice (no grimiore) and most of there spells are to under-balanced (+5 to one or two stats is of no good to me) and you are actually better of just auto-attacking instead of casting them. Also there Heal over time spells are of little use compared to potions and the heal you get from the athletics skill because when you are taking damage you dont need healing over time you need it all asap.

 

 

Thanks

Edited October 9, 2018 by bigbazoopa

[Boeroer]

Would you consider to edit your thread title so it doesn't use Spiritcapslock?

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

I've got half a mind to say that Barbarian is the weakest, as in, the most under-tuned.

[bigbazoopa]

I've got half a mind to say that Barbarian is the weakest, as in, the most under-tuned.

Yeah i agree to a certain extent. The -10 deflection penalty from frenzy is very painful especially in the early levels and IMO is to big a penalty for what you get back in return.

[Boeroer]

Hm.. Barb's Frenzy:

 

Pros:

• +25% attack speed (influences action time and recovery time which is good for most casts)
• +5 MIG (= +15% dmg and +10 Fortitude)
• +5 CON (= +25% health and +10 Fortitude)

Cons:

• -10 Deflection

 

Streetfighter's Heating Up (self-induced with Blunderbuss modal):

 

Pros:

• +50% recovery time

Cons:

• Distracted (-5 PER = -5 Accuracy and -10 Reflex)
• Flanked (-10 Deflection and -1 AR)

 

 

Directly compared:

• +15% dmg, +20 Fortitude, +25% attack speed, -10 deflection vs.
• -50% recovery time, -5 ACC, -10 Reflex, -1 AR

 

Looking at those numbers Frenzy seems to be in a good place - also if we consider that nobody complains about self-inflicted Streetfighter's Heating Up...

 

Also when talking about the power of Barbs we shouldn't forget:

 

It's not a bug, it's a Barby!

[bigbazoopa]

Yeah but the negative 10 deflection is a big incentive to be either a ranged or spell using barb (live you have shown above) . This seems kind of stupid cause a barb has allways been a melee guy

[bartopolis1234]

Where is Monk?  :banghead: :banghead:

 

POLL RIGGED

[bigbazoopa]

Added monk apologies

[Boeroer]

Yeah but the negative 10 deflection is a big incentive to be either a ranged or spell using barb (live you have shown above) . This seems kind of stupid cause a barb has allways been a melee guy 

 

True, but the Barb cliche is also about: "Go all-offense and don't care about getting hurt".

 

So trading speed, MIG and CON for Deflection somehow fits. To balance this a barb can stack a bit more AR than some other classes and has more health. A single class Barb even profits from lower deflection because of Barbaric Retaliation - which is very powerful. 

 

On the other hand the Streetfighter (if you are not going to use Blunderbusses but getting flanked by actual enemies) has -10 deflection AND -1 AR - and on top of that he's not as meaty. -50% recovery time is nice but the downside is severe. Still his passive is considered to be powerful. For me Frenzy and Heating Up (when getting flanked) are on par.

 

Edit: not talking about stuff like Spirit Tornado or Blood Storm etc. as upgrades of Frenzy. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Boeroer

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

My most favourite class in this game, purely from flavour perspective, is Corpse Eater. I like both Enrages. I like Barbaric Smash. I like the Shouts. I like... pretty much everything. Especially the eat the flesh of your fallen enemies bit. Very Heavy Metal. 

 

Try as I might, I can't make it work smoothly. But I am making a solo toon... so maybe there's the reason.  

[Clerith]

Strongest - Wizard
Weakest - Priest (excluding Salvation/Death's Door - if including that... no idea, ranger still?)
 
Please don't nerf Wizard going into the last, Wizard-related expansion, thank you...

 

Though that's only 'straightforward' power. A right combination of classes, items and skills has a few disgustingly powerful but gimmicky builds available.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Clerith

[Haplok]

Hm.. Barb's Frenzy:

 

Pros:

• +25% attack speed (influences action time and recovery time which is good for most casts)
• +5 MIG (= +15% dmg and +10 Fortitude)
• +5 CON (= +25% health and +10 Fortitude)

Cons:

• -10 Deflection

 

Streetfighter's Heating Up (self-induced with Blunderbuss modal):

 

Pros:

• +50% recovery time

Cons:

• Distracted (-5 PER = -5 Accuracy and -10 Reflex)
• Flanked (-10 Deflection and -1 AR)

 

 

Directly compared:

• +15% dmg, +20 Fortitude, +25% attack speed, -10 deflection vs.
• -50% recovery time, -5 ACC, -10 Reflex, -1 AR

 

Looking at those numbers Frenzy seems to be in a good place - also if we consider that nobody complains about self-inflicted Streetfighter's Heating Up...

 

 

Well, I can't believe such a flawed comparison came from you, Boeroer. Even in it's basic form, you've missed Heating Up +50% Sneak damage.

Then there is also On the Edge for +100% crit damage. But okay, the conditions get steep here.

 

When we look at the wider context though, a Streetfighter is a subclass of Rogue, meaning he'll also passively get +30-110% Sneak attack (+50% SF), as well as much better and/or cheaper active abilities. Except HoF, but that's late game and a bit expensive.

 

 

So yeah, if we put active abilities aside, it's more like +35% damage for Barbarian (Frenzy, One Stands Alone) vs +160% damage for Streetfighter (at max level). It's simplified, doesn't take into consideration Berserker's Pen or AR bonuses, crit bonuses, Blood Frenzy, rogue Deep Wounds and a few other rogue things. But that's more or less the gist.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Haplok

[Elric Galad]

Carnage is around 50% bonus damages per additional ennemy in range at max PL so I won't discount it that fast. Sure it is not single target DPS but still.

 

I would suspect that Berzeker is the top multiclass for a damage dealing spellcaster due to its on-kill effects (Bloodthirst/lust) + Frenzy + Lion Sprint (positionning + insta acc buff).

+2PR / + 3AR is no joke.

(helwalker being another serious candidate, especiallly if one goes DoT. But it comes at the cost of lots of additional damages taken)

 

Plus pure barb may ultimately cast 1-rage proning shouts which can quickly degenerate into permaprone + tons of damages as soon as you start getting killls.

And that is only if you don't want to abuse Heart of Blunderbuss.

[Haplok]

50% bonus damage? Or 50% of base weapon damage? As that's quite a difference.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Haplok

[bigbazoopa]

Strongest - Wizard

Weakest - Priest (excluding Salvation/Death's Door - if including that... no idea, ranger still?)

 

Please don't nerf Wizard going into the last, Wizard-related expansion, thank you...

 

Though that's only 'straightforward' power. A right combination of classes, items and skills has a few disgustingly powerful but gimmicky builds available.

I wouldnt worry about them nerfing wizards they seem to have taken the position that they are allowing wizards to be the strongest class

 

I mean its pretty hard not to notice that they are

[Elric Galad]

50% bonus damage? Or 50% of base weapon damage? As that's quite a difference.

 

+50% bonus damage is basically +50% base weapon damage.

So it's similar, except it is on another target (which is arguably worse)

 

Carnage is not a "multiplicative" bonus anymore like in PoE1, but bonus damage isn't multiplicative either.

 

EDIT : however, it's Raw damages and Might bonus does apply to it.

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/103685-mechanics-barbarian-carnage-testing/

Edited October 9, 2018 by Elric Galad

[Haplok]

Hm, you're right.

It is a bit misleading as you see 50%, hit for 50 and would expect to do 25 damage Carnage... but it will be more like 10.

[Elric Galad]

Hm, you're right.

It is a bit misleading as you see 50%, hit for 50 and would expect to do 25 damage Carnage... but it will be more like 10.

 

Yup but in this case, a +50% damages increase would have led to 60 damages  

 

However, also note that +50% damages get multiplied by lashes which can be significant (while carnage is multiplied by Might)

[bigbazoopa]

Does carnage hit friendlies in deadfire? I think it does hey?

[Elric Galad]

Does carnage hit friendlies in deadfire? I think it does hey?

 

Only if you're confused. Which happens quite often as a berzeker cause it is the downside of his upgraded Frenzy.

But as well as you're resistant or immune to Intellect afflictions, even Berz won't hit friendlies.

 

​Overall I don't think Barbarian are significantly weaker.

 

It shares the DPS (+ Mobility) type with rogue. Its single target DPS is worse but AoE is better (same for its debuff).

 

And its Action speed buff are top tier, especially for casters multiclass who get the killing blow.

 

 

​I won't say its the stronger class either. Wizard is, especially because of its Tier 9 and Grimoire abuses.  

Edited October 9, 2018 by Elric Galad

[baldurs_gate_2]

Hulk's build is maybe the strongest atm, because of how deltro's helm works and you can stack your shock damage so high.

 

But excluding that and going for single target dps, a rogue multiclass just wrecks things and AoE CC / DPS is clearly a single class wizard, because Minoletta's PL IX empowered just kills everything if you have enough pen.

 

Thats for solo play, but in a group it is again different, there a cipher becomems pretty handy because of ancient memory.

[Boeroer]

Well, I can't believe such a flawed comparison came from you, Boeroer.

What exactlt are you talking about? "Flawed comparison"? I think you didn't understand what I was trying to say.

 

I was just comparing two seperate effects that give you higher attack speed while paying for that with lower defenses. Sneak Attack is not part of the Streetfighter's Heating Up as Carnage or Bloodlust is not part of Frenzy.

 

Frenzy as a standalone ability was depicted as bad - while nobody says that about Heating Up. So I compared those two distinct abilites and showed that Frenzy is at least as good as Heating Up (leaving aside that you are even slower if you're not heated up).

 

Where is the flaw in that comparison?

Edited October 9, 2018 by Boeroer

[Verde]

Regardless of power, the Ranger is still so boring to play. So in that regard it's also the weakest haha.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Only played the expansion with one party and didn't bother to respec so maybe I'm playing it wrong but I found Priest(Contemplative multi Xoti) to be fairly weak in terms of support, heals should probably scale higher with PL. Wizard (single Aloth) has massive burst and aoe damage to the point launching an empowered Missle barrage(or whatever the IX spell is called) destroys enemies and the wilting wind clears out the rest. Fighters and Rangers are underwhelming, Monk seemed pretty good, Rogue hit pretty hard, didn't mess with Cipher/Chanter/Barbarian/Druid/Paladin yet.

[MotelOK]

I have Serefan as a ranged Barbarian, it seems to work well. But melee Barbarians are just destroyed due to the low deflection. I think they're in a rough spot but being damage dealers who can't soak damage. I'd rather just use a ranged character to deal damage, and have my melee characters act as tanks. I can't think of a way to fix this. Maybe give them options for higher deflection/damage absorption, but lower damage output to balance it out? All I can think of.