The Political Thread - Machiavelli Edition

[Amentep]

I'm more curious as to how/why so many people have mismatching info

 

I've come across it before with my grandparents but that was because they were really, really old and poor and didn't have things like birth certificates. Just curious to see what the situations are like.

 

One thing that was pointed out was hyphens.  If your name was printed as Johnson-Smythe on your birth certificate but entered as Johnson Smythe (or vice versa) in the voter database, then you're not an exact match.  Sometimes its a case a person's middle name was placed as the first name because the official entered the name backwards on the birth certificate.  Or as an example of a extreme case, I have a good friend who was named one thing by her parents (a common diminutive) and the hospital put the common full name on the birth certificate against the intent of the parents.  Since no one cared about exact match documents until after 9/11, a lot of people still have valid government issued IDs with the 'wrong' name on it, including mismatches with voter rolls.

 

Also given the lack of hospitals in large parts of Georgia, there was probably a lot more live at home births that were recorded well after the fact, particularly in rural and poor areas which can also lead to miscommunication about names on documents.

[smjjames]

 

I'm more curious as to how/why so many people have mismatching info

 

I've come across it before with my grandparents but that was because they were really, really old and poor and didn't have things like birth certificates. Just curious to see what the situations are like.

 

One thing that was pointed out was hyphens.  If your name was printed as Johnson-Smythe on your birth certificate but entered as Johnson Smythe (or vice versa) in the voter database, then you're not an exact match.  Sometimes its a case a person's middle name was placed as the first name because the official entered the name backwards on the birth certificate.  Or as an example of a extreme case, I have a good friend who was named one thing by her parents (a common diminutive) and the hospital put the common full name on the birth certificate against the intent of the parents.  Since no one cared about exact match documents until after 9/11, a lot of people still have valid government issued IDs with the 'wrong' name on it, including mismatches with voter rolls.

 

Also given the lack of hospitals in large parts of Georgia, there was probably a lot more live at home births that were recorded well after the fact, particularly in rural and poor areas which can also lead to miscommunication about names on documents.

 

 

There very well could be legit reasons for the 53k mismatches, but the thing is that 70% of those on the list are African-American and Georgia is about 30% African-American. Brian Kemp is blaming it on a voter registration drive being messy with the paperwork, but still highlights the ways that Republicans suppress votes or make voting harder.

[Amentep]

I'm making no claim about political motivations, I'm just trying to illustrate how its so easy for the mismatch law to catch people given the way things have been done (which is why it was complained about when it was a policy and not a law).

 

A young woman named LaKeisha might have their name entered Lakeisha, La Keisha, or LaKeisha.  A young man named Carlos Salcedo Hernandez might end up on a voter roll as Carlos Salcedo, Carlos Salcedo-Hernandez, Carlos Hernandez, Carlos Salcedohernandez and Carlos Salcedo Hernandez.  In both cases, only the last one would be a match.  And that doesn't take into account misspellings (like LeKeisha for LaKeisha).  Or worse, a long name being concatenated because the fields don't contain enough characters.

[Gfted1]

I have a hard time complaining about voter rules being tighted / finally enforced. In my state, dead people still vote.

 

I can commiserate with those affected right now but it seems like a simple matter to recitfy on ones personal records. Maybe just go with whatever is on the birth certificate? Sure, you can be Bob socially, but your dl says Robert. That kind of thing?

[Hurlshort]

My driver's license rarely matches my current address. It's a hassle to update it with the DMV, and I tend to move more often than I need to renew it. My SS card also has a different name than my DL birth record and DL. I've gone by my middle name since I was pretty young, but some documents use my first and some documents use my middle. So yeah. I'd probably be more sympathetic about the crusade to crack down on voter fraud if there was actually a real voter fraud problem in this country. Voter suppression has a bit more historical evidence behind it, but even that gets thrown around as a political tool too often.

[Gfted1]

You had better never move to GA with that mess. No doubt you can freely vote in CA? Does anyone even check anything there or everybody can just stroll up and vote?

[Malcador]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/15/middleeast/saudi-khashoggi-death-turkey/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fjamal-khashoggi-report-cnn-saudi-arabia-investigation-2018-10

 

So they ordered interrogation, but not killing. I guess this will get them in the clear.

[Hurlshort]

You had better never move to GA with that mess. No doubt you can freely vote in CA? Does anyone even check anything there or everybody can just stroll up and vote?

 

You show up to where you are registered, sign your name, and vote. It's not very complicated. We don't really have an issue with too many people voting in this country. Turnout rates are abysmal. 

 

How many dead people do you think are voting in your state and how did it affect the results? Trump's own commission did not find any widespread fraud, despite what Trump keeps saying. It's just a bunch of political theater.

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/report-trump-commission-did-not-find-widespread-voter-fraud

[Maedhros]

 

It matches what she's been saying earlier on. The current Chief of the Cherokee Nation, Bill John Baker is only 1/32nd Native as well. She never said she was fullblooded Indian. You are the troll.

What do you mean also 1/32? She is between 1/64 and 1/1024. Math.

 

 

You're right, the initial news report said 1/32 so I just referred to that. They later changed it.

 

And for the record, I don't think Warren is Indian. I mean there's a chance I'm related to Djenghis Khan if you look back long enough, that doesn't make me Mongolian. Wasn't her story just that she had native american heritage? She's technically right. If however she claimed to be Indian, she'd be wrong.

 

But then again, many Americans are a bit weird with how they identify with the nationalities of their ancestors.

[Chilloutman]

that lady got some balls to call herself Native American xD

 

[Amentep]

I don't get how incompetent US government is. All EU countries have ID for every citizen above certain age (18 in Poland). And there is no problem. Why US is so opposed to this basic idea?

 

Identification outside of the social security number (which was intended to only be used for federal services) isn't the domain of the US, but the states. The states I'm familiar with do have IDs - either a driver's license (which serves also as a state ID) or a state ID (that does not serve as a drivers license). But states do not (in my experience) require you to have or carry an ID to conduct general business (outside of operating a vehicle).  You'll use an ID for driving, for banking, and in some states, voting.

[Chilloutman]

Well for US outsider its very hard to imagine doing any business without ID. How do you operate in Bank for example without ID? Or at doctors? Or how you can vote without it? I am not hugh fan of IDs but I can't understand how you can operate without it either

[Gfted1]

You show up to where you are registered, sign your name, and vote. It's not very complicated. We don't really have an issue with too many people voting in this country. Turnout rates are abysmal. 

 

How many dead people do you think are voting in your state and how did it affect the results? Trump's own commission did not find any widespread fraud, despite what Trump keeps saying. It's just a bunch of political theater.

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/report-trump-commission-did-not-find-widespread-voter-fraud

 

Huh, so if I bounce over to Gilroy and drop your name nobody will even check my ID? Yikes. Maybe Ill vote for the commies next election, in your name of course. /everythingisfine

[Gfted1]

Well for US outsider its very hard to imagine doing any business without ID. How do you operate in Bank for example without ID? Or at doctors? Or how you can vote without it? I am not hugh fan of IDs but I can't understand how you can operate without it either

Im not sure about Amentep's state, but you cant do jack in IL without ID. You even need it for booze/smokes.

[Armanz]

Information about abortions counts as advertizing in Germany. Good times, good times indeed. (I'd post the article but it's in german). It's always baffling to me how progressive a country it is (I'd never consider moving anywhere else, I love it here so much) but at the same time how much religious bull is still haunting our laws and leeching our taxes.

 

Edit: I'm posting the article anyways, if you don't speak german consider learning it...might come in handy in the future if some day germans decide that third times the charm, you know.

 

https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/219a-barley-103.html

Edited October 16, 2018 by Armanz

[Amentep]

 

Well for US outsider its very hard to imagine doing any business without ID. How do you operate in Bank for example without ID? Or at doctors? Or how you can vote without it? I am not hugh fan of IDs but I can't understand how you can operate without it either

Im not sure about Amentep's state, but you cant do jack in IL without ID. You even need it for booze/smokes.

 

 

Here you'll need a state issued ID to get booze, you'll need state issued ID to OPEN a bank account, but once the bank account is opened you won't necessarily be asked to show ID (but some will); instead you may be asked to show the bank issued card, and/or they'll match signatures, and/or they'll match a photo taken and stored in their system at the time the account was opened.  You have to show state issued ID when writing a check to a company, and you have to show a state issued ID while driving.  In this state you have to show a state issued ID to vote and the state ID (not driver's license) is free is gotten for the purpose of voting.

 

For doctor's visits, you'd only show a state issued ID if you don't have an insurance issued insurance card, IIRC.

 

But you're not required to have the ID on you if you are just walking down the street, so technically you don't have to have a state issued ID.

 

One of the things that advocates against ID laws will argue (at least when they come up here) is that ID laws tend to be a burden (and thus a potential disenfranchisement) on the poor, the people who don't have a bank account, don't drive, etc.

[Gfted1]

It probably varies from state-to-state but here in IL, an ID costs $20 for adults, $10 for minors, and is free to the disabled. And its valid for 8 years. I suppose we can create another program for those adults that cant absorb the $2.50 annual average cost.

[Hurlshort]

 

Huh, so if I bounce over to Gilroy and drop your name nobody will even check my ID? Yikes. Maybe Ill vote for the commies next election, in your name of course. /everythingisfine

 

 

If you could figure out what precinct I am at, then I suppose you could. But that would only be one vote. That is not widespread fraud. It also wouldn't take much to raise a red flag if we both tried to vote under my name, and then the signature would become important. I also don't believe the commies are on the ballot.

 

I mean, I know you are being glib, but it doesn't need to be a complicated system. We've had voting in this country for quite awhile. Turnout rates are low enough without making you jump through hoops.

[Guard Dog]

, if you don't speak german consider learning it...might come in handy in the future if some day germans decide that third times the charm, you know.

 

 

[Hurlshort]

 

Well for US outsider its very hard to imagine doing any business without ID. How do you operate in Bank for example without ID? Or at doctors? Or how you can vote without it? I am not hugh fan of IDs but I can't understand how you can operate without it either

Im not sure about Amentep's state, but you cant do jack in IL without ID. You even need it for booze/smokes.

 

 

Oddly enough, there was probably a vote to restrict those products to certain ages.

[Malcador]

It probably varies from state-to-state but here in IL, an ID costs $20 for adults, $10 for minors, and is free to the disabled. And its valid for 8 years. I suppose we can create another program for those adults that cant absorb the $2.50 annual average cost.

 

One other issue may be problems with supporting documentation for ID in some states.  Don't think anyone'll actually take a honest look at it, though, which is a shame.

[Gfted1]

Oddly enough, there was probably a vote to restrict those products to certain ages.

 

/not sure if serious:

 

National Minimum Drinking Age Act.

Smoking age.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otbml6WIQPo

 

[Malcador]

Old enough to kill, but not for drinking. 

[Gfted1]

Yeah, there should be an exemption for the military. Luckily I was in the Navy and when were outside of US territorial waters then we just follow the rules of whatever country we were making a port call to. I have never been "carded" overseas. 

[Malcador]

Yeah, there should be an exemption for the military. Luckily I was in the Navy and when were outside of US territorial waters then we just follow the rules of whatever country we were making a port call to. I have never been "carded" overseas. 

 

Nah, both should be same. If they think you're of sound mind to hand a weapon to, booze should be ok as well.  Of course, doubtful that the age for both to be true is 18