We really need to talk about XP

[lord_wc]

I pretty much enjoyed the DLC, however two more of these and I will go mad.

I capped out halfway through the BoW - despite doing basically just the main quest and grabbing important loot. This means that probably half of the game is untouched, as I don't need loot, xp or money (and let's be honest the quests aren't complex or good enough to rerun them for the 10th time).

 

I also understand that you are most likely too lazy to do more levels and power levels, but you really should do at least something so half of the game isn't worthless for us. Remeber BG where you could remove the cap? I was level 50 or something stupid like that when I did a trilogy run.

 

Personal preference is having extra levels with at least skill/talent points. Maybe introduce dual classing - that by itself would give meaning to all that xp lying around. The game is already starting to be the boring slogfest the first was (probably due to the self proclaimed hardcore players that only think enduring boredom is a challenge), at least don't make half of it redundant.

 

Also, no achievement for triple crown solo still? Bah.

Edited August 6, 2018 by lord_wc

[house2fly]

There's mods that increase the level cap, check em out

[lord_wc]

There's mods that increase the level cap, check em out

Yeah, no mods in triple crown solo unluckily:(

[Wormerine]

During recent stream a question is asked is they will revisit how xp is distributed and if I remember well the answer is that yes, after all the DLC are released they might adjust the rate you gain xp to accomodate more content. Giving players more levels create a rather simple issue that entire end game would need to be redesigned in order to not suck.

[lord_wc]

During recent stream a question is asked is they will revisit how xp is distributed and if I remember well the answer is that yes, after all the DLC are released they might adjust the rate you gain xp to accomodate more content. Giving players more levels create a rather simple issue that entire end game would need to be redesigned in order to not suck.

On the other hand that means that anyone that doesn't have the DLCs will be out of luck. Or they completely separate progression when you gain the same amount of xp within the base game or base game + DLCs.

Which both just reek of unprofessionalism and lazy game design. The proper solution is increasing cap - no surprise that every game does that with DLC and expansions, otherwise you are paying to actually get less.

[AeonsLegend]

I thought they removed XP gain from bounties.

 

 

During recent stream a question is asked is they will revisit how xp is distributed and if I remember well the answer is that yes, after all the DLC are released they might adjust the rate you gain xp to accomodate more content. Giving players more levels create a rather simple issue that entire end game would need to be redesigned in order to not suck.

On the other hand that means that anyone that doesn't have the DLCs will be out of luck. Or they completely separate progression when you gain the same amount of xp within the base game or base game + DLCs.

Which both just reek of unprofessionalism and lazy game design. The proper solution is increasing cap - no surprise that every game does that with DLC and expansions, otherwise you are paying to actually get less.

 

Hm, just increasing cap gives other challenges. The game is balanced around a party of about level 15-16 end game. If your party is level 20 you have an "I win" button for each fight, even on PotD. If they had to increase cap, which I'm sure they will do with another DLC, then they have to redesign the entire levelling system for it not to break the game.

 

And I wholeheartedly disagree on getting less when you don't increase cap. You pay for a side adventure and that is exactly what you get.

 

And wow, you certainly have no qualms to come onto a forum and insult the people that give you an amazing game without having any understanding of what goes into this game from a developer perspective.

[lord_wc]

And I wholeheartedly disagree on getting less when you don't increase cap. You pay for a side adventure and that is exactly what you get.

And wow, you certainly have no qualms to come onto a forum and insult the people that give you an amazing game without having any understanding of what goes into this game from a developer perspective.

The problem is the moment they take out leveling you will compare the game on the story you get. And I do think PoE really doesn't want to be compared on story with witcher/DoS or even Tower of Time just to name a few. The story in this game doesn't really live up to Obsidian standards, that's true for the DLC as well.

They did a very good leveling/class system which takes the game on its back and makes it fun. Let's be honest, the story (even in the first) is mediocre at best - it's in the ballpark of TESO and that's an MMO.

 

They offer a product. I gave feedback on that product. It's no different of leaving a review of a restaurant where the side dish is killing the main course.

Edited August 6, 2018 by lord_wc

[AeonsLegend]

 

And I wholeheartedly disagree on getting less when you don't increase cap. You pay for a side adventure and that is exactly what you get.

 

And wow, you certainly have no qualms to come onto a forum and insult the people that give you an amazing game without having any understanding of what goes into this game from a developer perspective.

The problem is the moment they take out leveling you will compare the game on the story you get. And I do think PoE really doesn't want to be compared on story with witcher/DoS or even Tower of Time just to name a few. The story in this game doesn't really live up to Obsidian standards, that's true for the DLC as well.

They did a very good leveling/class system which takes the game on its back and makes it fun. Let's be honest, the story (even in the first) is mediocre at best - it's in the ballpark of TESO and that's an MMO.

 

They offer a product. I gave feedback on that product. It's no different of leaving a review of a restaurant where the side dish is killing the main course.

 

Nothing wrong with giving feedback. The level of respect you show with this feedback ultimately says more about you than about anything else. I disagree on the quality of the story, but it's your prerogative to believe whatever you want. It's much easier being a hater.

[lord_wc]

 

 

And I wholeheartedly disagree on getting less when you don't increase cap. You pay for a side adventure and that is exactly what you get.

 

And wow, you certainly have no qualms to come onto a forum and insult the people that give you an amazing game without having any understanding of what goes into this game from a developer perspective.

The problem is the moment they take out leveling you will compare the game on the story you get. And I do think PoE really doesn't want to be compared on story with witcher/DoS or even Tower of Time just to name a few. The story in this game doesn't really live up to Obsidian standards, that's true for the DLC as well.

They did a very good leveling/class system which takes the game on its back and makes it fun. Let's be honest, the story (even in the first) is mediocre at best - it's in the ballpark of TESO and that's an MMO.

 

They offer a product. I gave feedback on that product. It's no different of leaving a review of a restaurant where the side dish is killing the main course.

 

Nothing wrong with giving feedback. The level of respect you show with this feedback ultimately says more about you than about anything else. I disagree on the quality of the story, but it's your prerogative to believe whatever you want. It's much easier being a hater.

 

Best thing about arguing with fanbois is if you happen to disagree with them you are immediately a hater. And I agree, the method you are trying to take the edge out of arguments instead of reasoning tells a lot about you.

 

If you so much liked the story, could you tell me a cathartic/awesome experience you had? I'm seriously interested, apparently I didn't read it thoroughly enough, because for me it was lukewarm and clichéd.

[AeonsLegend]

Dude, you come onto a forum. Complain a game sucks without giving any argument. When I say I disagree I all of a sudden become a fanboy and have to defend myself? Yea that's not how this works. You want to start an actual argument you throw something on the table we can actually discuss other than "This product is bad and the developers are lazy".

 

Your move.

[Vitalis]

 

 

 

And I wholeheartedly disagree on getting less when you don't increase cap. You pay for a side adventure and that is exactly what you get.

 

And wow, you certainly have no qualms to come onto a forum and insult the people that give you an amazing game without having any understanding of what goes into this game from a developer perspective.

The problem is the moment they take out leveling you will compare the game on the story you get. And I do think PoE really doesn't want to be compared on story with witcher/DoS or even Tower of Time just to name a few. The story in this game doesn't really live up to Obsidian standards, that's true for the DLC as well.

They did a very good leveling/class system which takes the game on its back and makes it fun. Let's be honest, the story (even in the first) is mediocre at best - it's in the ballpark of TESO and that's an MMO.

 

They offer a product. I gave feedback on that product. It's no different of leaving a review of a restaurant where the side dish is killing the main course.

Nothing wrong with giving feedback. The level of respect you show with this feedback ultimately says more about you than about anything else. I disagree on the quality of the story, but it's your prerogative to believe whatever you want. It's much easier being a hater.

Best thing about arguing with fanbois is if you happen to disagree with them you are immediately a hater. And I agree, the method you are trying to take the edge out of arguments instead of reasoning tells a lot about you.

 

If you so much liked the story, could you tell me a cathartic/awesome experience you had? I'm seriously interested, apparently I didn't read it thoroughly enough, because for me it was lukewarm and clichéd.

I can confirm AeonsLegend is not a fanyboi.

[house2fly]

 

There's mods that increase the level cap, check em out

Yeah, no mods in triple crown solo unluckily:(

if you play triple crown solo why do you want to outlevel all the content? Surely the point is to be challenged

[AndreaColombo]

The second half of the game isn’t worthless—it’s when the real fun starts. Finally we get to enjoy the full extent of the power we’ve built

 

I’m not saying the game doesn’t have a balance problem, because it does. However maxing out when only one encounter is left (or very close to the end of the game at any rate) is something that would personally put me way off. I want to spend as much time as possible maxed out, for that’s where the real fun is (at least for me.)

Edited August 7, 2018 by AndreaColombo

[daven]

OK the guy is a bit aggressive but calling someone a hater is a comment that holds no value whatsoever.

 

But anyway back on topic, hitting an experience points cap early on is a bit of a motivation killer.

[Murp]

Well I wouldn't say that this "needs" to be discussed considering it really isn't that big an issue. What exactly is wrong with playing with your classes full range of abilities while there's still content available to use it in?

 

I can't tell you how many games just throw levels at you with them ultimately being completely unremarkable, Especially in late game when most just end up picking things that give you flat bonuses like more health or damage. On top of all that there's still a bunch of unique items and weapons to play and experiment with.

 

How much more is there to complain about? Is there too much water? is the water too blue? Christ.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Murp

[Hassat Hunter]

I've leveled 20 with a few more base quests left and XP was of 0 value throughout BoW.

Did it bother me in the slightest?

 

Ehm... nope.

It really surprises me some of the things people have issues with 0_o.

[Tick]

I think the team did a good job making the game fun even though I was level 20. I enjoy leveling up and picking abilities out, but I'd rather have the game be consistent and challenging than artificially/lazily jack up my level cap and break the game. If they can do it well, great, but if they can't in the time constraints they have, then I think they made the right choice.

 

Also, I really love the story and themes from both games, and that's the majority of why I play them. Maybe that's partly why I don't mind the level cap.

 

How much more is there to complain about? Is there too much water? is the water too blue? Christ.

Hahaha. The exasperation. I almost want to make a joke complaint thread now.

[lord_wc]

Well I wouldn't say that this "needs" to be discussed considering it really isn't that big an issue. What exactly is wrong with playing with your classes full range of abilities while there's still content available to use it in?

 

I can't tell you how many games just throw levels at you with them ultimately being completely unremarkable, Especially in late game when most just end up picking things that give you flat bonuses like more health or damage. On top of all that there's still a bunch of unique items and weapons to play and experiment with.

 

How much more is there to complain about? Is there too much water? is the water too blue? Christ.

The point exactly is that you don't play your class' full range of abilities because you are capped at 20. It's the same as if your available money was limited. Or you could just read 200 characters, the rest was cut off. 

 

And no one is talking about throwing levels at the PC. I'm talking about half of the game not being useless from xp's point, because currently it is. And the leveling system is the strong point of this game, the combat AI is incredibly dumb and the story is a mediocre collection of cliché. Character building on the other hand is incredibly well made, the multiclassing mix and matches - and even in party synergies are numerous and gets you thinking.

 

That's why I'm complaining about it. Because that's only thing that realistically can be made better - they won't write a good combat AI (compare it with BG's caster AI, and that game is older than you probably) and they surely won't write a good story (press  5 to keep silent).

 

And again why does complaining matter to you? It's incredibly boring to watch people flock into every thread telling 'bah, this doesn't matter'. It's, you know, just your opinion man.

Edited August 7, 2018 by lord_wc

[Sceptenar]

Personally I like that I can cap the party a bit before the end and actually get to have some fun with my high level abilities. I say they should keep the xp where it is now, I remember there being very little left to do after I capped my party and being disappointed in that. Then I played through BoW with a maxed out party and had tons of fun with it. 

[Wormerine]

The point exactly is that you don't play your class' full range of abilities because you are capped at 20. It's the same as if your available money was limited.

 

Ah, here is the thing. I don’t see not being able to pick all or more abilities as a negative. If game would allow to level up further and simply fill out the blanks in out characters tree I would consider it detrimental to character development - as what I don’t pick defines my character just the same as what I do pick.

 

An idea of raising a level cap, and adding new tiers of abilities is something I would be very interested in. But it creates new issues, some of which were already mentioned. White March was the best thing about PoE1 but it’s addition hurt the base game - with pacing and extra power creep. Style of expansion for Deadfire have a potential to not repeat the same mistakes. I don’t think that doing seperate xp gain for vanilla and “Obsidian edition” would be lazy - to me it seems to me like a good thing to do. I would be all for revamped end game content once all expansions are out with new levels and abilities to gain... but is it something Obsidian wants to do?

 

Narrative in Deadfire is fine, factions and lore are quite great. I have some issues with it overall, but it’s still worth playing and replaying for story alone.