Beast of Winter impressions

[handsomenat]

Which game file? I can't find the conversation with the king .

[Zap Gun For Hire]

Which game file? I can't find the conversation with the king .

For the English text file it's in lax2_exported/localized/en/text/conversations/lax02_01_iceberg_dungeon/lax02_01_cv_huana_wandering_soul.  Which corresponds to a conversationbundle file in lax2_exported/design/conversations/lax02_01_iceberg_dungeon.

 

Called wandering soul presumably because you have to knit the pieces of the wandering soul together before it becomes the king. 

 

That threw me for a loop as well for a bit.  So I just brute forced it by multifile search for some of the text in his dialogue and found it that way.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Zap Gun For Hire

[handsomenat]

Thanks! I see Fassina has some lines here too.

[Zap Gun For Hire]

Thanks! I see Fassina has some lines here too.

Yes, I think it's mostly on the "I bring knowledge from the future" path.  Might be some others in there as well.

[Zap Gun For Hire]

Speaking of little easter eggs, with enough Insight (eight, for the record), when you convince the king to join up with you to fight the dracolich, you get this additional hidden gem:

 

(before the check) King Waturi I: "A victory against the dragon would bring glory to my empire.  Perhaps- perhaps together we might repair my legacy, too"

 

[insight 8] Within the folds of his robes, the king's hands shake.

 

(after the check) Waturi I: He sighs.  "It is settled."

 

Not a big thing.  But a nice little easter egg which confirms that the king really is a hell of a lot more scared and uncertain than he appears and that most of his prior posturing was an act.  Not that one couldn't tell that already, but I felt it was a nice little touch.  Also helped convince me to let him pass on to the Wheel in my main playthough.  I figure he's due some rest at long last.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Zap Gun For Hire

[Porcelyn]

Maybe a guide can be put together for this so no one misses content. That's cool that Fassina has some lines.

[Tick]

I really want more Rekke at this point, or even just stuff about where he comes from. So many teases and hints.

 

Thank you guys for sharing those convo details. Going down different routes or making certain checks really adds to one's understanding of the world and what's going on.

[handsomenat]

What's your take on Vatnir? When Ydwin derided him for never trying to escape WtW by taking a boat like anyone else I was kinda with her. He is kind of pathetic but at the same time I have sympathy for him. He is very much trapped by his circumstances. And seems to be really deterministic too. He's kind of a foil to Tekehu, is some ways? He says that his people expect leadership from Endings Godlikes and Huana have high expectations of Ngati's chosen as well. But unlike Tekehu's Vatnir's life isn't all sweet and easy but heavily marked by physical pain and hardships of life in the Land. It also makes him quite grumpy. Before Vatnir became part of the game I would vote for Ydwin to get a companion treatment but now I feel like I could choose Vatnir instead... He's kinda fascinating. He isn't a true believer but still his overall outlook on life is influenced by Rymrgand and I think it could be interesting in a companion, especially once you learn about Eothas' plans. On the other hand Ydwin is much more pro-active than him. But then it's always interesting to have more godlikes' experiences in game.

[Zap Gun For Hire]

Some more tidbits:

 

If you took Waidwen along with you to be sent back to the Wheel, Waidwen and Ethoas will have a chat at Ukaizo (with Waidwen chiding Ethoas' current plan somewhat).

 

If you recruit Vatnir, you can not get what might be considered the 'best' ending for Harbinger's Watch (Vatnir leads Harbinger's Watch into a period of trade and prosperity).  If Vatnir is recruited, there's a few possibilities with the 'best' being "Harbinger's Watch becomes a bunch of religious fanatics who attack anyone who come to them" or "Harbinger's Watch disbands and goes back to the White That Wends".  

 

For that bit about Harbinger's Watch, as I look at the game files, I can't figure out a way to make the 'good ending' fire if you recruit Vatnir, even if you boot Vatnir out of the party at the end of the DLC.

 

Near as I can tell the conditions are:

   Harbinger's Watch not advised to disband

   Vatnir alive

   Vatnir never recruited

   Vatnir in good standing with HW (ie don't snitch on him after the events with The Messenger)

 

Which, honestly, is kinda lame. :\  It should be possible, maybe even logical, for Vatnir to come back to Harbinger's Watch when all is said and done and lead his people with his new found wisdom and experience.  Okay, I get the point about "these guys are a bunch of religious fanatics and left to their own devices, the best thing really is for them to pack up and go home."

 

But, like I said, kinda lame that recruiting a character you're supposed to be able to recruit locks out what might be the best ending for an area. In fact, on my speed run test, I'm never told what happens to Vatnir.  Which, since he's a sidekick, fair enough.   OTOH, you do find out what happens when you boot him out of your party at the end of the DLC, which is a little odd.

 

All in all, not lame enough to be annoying (especially as it's literally changing one inconsequential game variable)... But, yeah, slightly lame.

[Tarlonniel]

 When Ydwin derided him for never trying to escape WtW by taking a boat like anyone else I was kinda with her.

 

Except he did take a boat. That's how he ended up in the Deadfire

 

Lying to get people to follow him wasn't so great, but if not for the dragon, his plan might've worked out rather well. In fact, in one scenario it does work out rather well (after the Watcher deals with said dragon). And considering that Ydwin seems, er, reluctant to reveal just how she got the means to leave the White, I don't think she has room to throw shade on the guy.

[Porcelyn]

I have a soft spot for Vatnir. I'm a compassionate person so he really hits me in the feels. I just want to hug him and tell he's not a monster and it's not his fault.

[Zap Gun For Hire]

I have a soft spot for Vatnir. I'm a compassionate person so he really hits me in the feels. I just want to hug him and tell he's not a monster and it's not his fault.

I was completely expecting some crazed death cultist that I needed to keep on a tight leash.  Instead I got someone who was way in over his head, fairly annoyed with the state of his culture over all (though obviously from it, given his attitudes aren't that dissimilar), and someone who was trying to make the best of a crappy hand given to him by the gods.

 

 

Kinda also think Ydwin was projecting just a little bit there.  But even so I can see how someone as stoic as her (or someone who wants to be stoic) could be put off by a sob story.  Especially if it reminded them a bit too much of theirs.

 

Was actually pleased just how much Ydwin was fleshed out in this DLC.  She's fatalistic in general (again, a sign of the culture) but she's rebelling against many ways fatalism is being practiced in her culture.  Not to mention that while she agrees that 'everything dies', she's in absolutely no hurry to actually throw herself on the bonfire anytime soon.

 

Fatalism vs the popular perception of nihilism, might be the way to look at it.

 

In fact, as I think about it, Harbinger's Watch might just be a parody/satire of those 'straw nihilists' mentioned in that TvTropes link.  What with them rushing to die at one moment (and cursing their fate that they weren't lucky enough to die) yet still going about their day-to-day business otherwise.

 

Either way, HW ain't exactly a stable place, as seen by the brewmaster (and his unwillingness to drink his OWN swill ). 

[Tarlonniel]

I gotta admit, Rymrgand is remarkably forgiving.

 

Rymie: Hey, why didn't I feel the dragon's soul enter my domain?

Watcher: Dunno.

Rymie: Fine. Hand over the relic so I can cleanse it.

Watcher: No.

Rymie: Pledge yourself in service to me!

Watcher: Never.

Rymie: I kill you!

Watcher: Bring it on!

Rymie: Cool. Bye now.

Watcher: ... what the Hel...

 

I think I like him. And now my wizard has a sweet phylactery collection going.

[Porcelyn]

 

 

Rymie: I kill you!

 

I'm going to put that on a shirt. I has Cricut Skills.

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Porcelyn

[handsomenat]

 

I have a soft spot for Vatnir. I'm a compassionate person so he really hits me in the feels. I just want to hug him and tell he's not a monster and it's not his fault.

I was completely expecting some crazed death cultist that I needed to keep on a tight leash.  Instead I got someone who was way in over his head, fairly annoyed with the state of his culture over all (though obviously from it, given his attitudes aren't that dissimilar), and someone who was trying to make the best of a crappy hand given to him by the gods.

 

 

Kinda also think Ydwin was projecting just a little bit there.  But even so I can see how someone as stoic as her (or someone who wants to be stoic) could be put off by a sob story.  Especially if it reminded them a bit too much of theirs.

 

Was actually pleased just how much Ydwin was fleshed out in this DLC.  She's fatalistic in general (again, a sign of the culture) but she's rebelling against many ways fatalism is being practiced in her culture.  Not to mention that while she agrees that 'everything dies', she's in absolutely no hurry to actually throw herself on the bonfire anytime soon.

 

Fatalism vs the popular perception of nihilism, might be the way to look at it.

 

In fact, as I think about it, Harbinger's Watch might just be a parody/satire of those 'straw nihilists' mentioned in that TvTropes link.  What with them rushing to die at one moment (and cursing their fate that they weren't lucky enough to die) yet still going about their day-to-day business otherwise.

 

Either way, HW ain't exactly a stable place, as seen by the brewmaster (and his unwillingness to drink his OWN swill ). 

 

 

Yeah, I remember when I first heard that BoW is going to be a bout a death cult I thought it's going to be serious and kinda what you would expect? But then in the first dev stream showing Harbinger's Watch they said there's going be to some dark comedy there so I guess it could be approached from the parody angle?

 

I'm not sure what I expected from Vatnir when I first saw just the picture of him. I remember though how some posters assumed he's going to be evil.

 

Also to respond to some of your points from your previous post about endings I agree that it is kinda disappointing how we don't learn about Vatnir's fate unless he's killed by the cult. As for him going back to the cult once everything's over... Would he still want that? (I don't know, that's why I'm asking. But my feeling is that he wants to leave this place. I might be wrong).

 

[Guest]

Minor thing I didn't like: I didn't like that Eder's only reactions to animals and wilder was "can i pet them" like yeah I know Eder's been like this but at this point it's like a tired joke. For example in White March he has a scene where he helps an injured wolf... it showed his affection for animals in a different way than just the brainless "must pet”.

Eder in Pillars 1 was a well-rounded character who flirted with stereotypes without giving in to them. Eder is Pillars 2 is Jethro from the Beverly Hillbillies.

[Tick]

 

Minor thing I didn't like: I didn't like that Eder's only reactions to animals and wilder was "can i pet them" like yeah I know Eder's been like this but at this point it's like a tired joke. For example in White March he has a scene where he helps an injured wolf... it showed his affection for animals in a different way than just the brainless "must pet”.

Eder in Pillars 1 was a well-rounded character who flirted with stereotypes without giving in to them. Eder is Pillars 2 is Jethro from the Beverly Hillbillies.

I don't *100%* agree but I really relate to /get what you're saying. Playing PoE 1 really emphasizes how off Eder feels in parts of Deadfire. It's really surreal. Especially because when they're not playing him up for laughs, I think the way he's written goes in the right direction. Like Eder wasn't ever crazy smart, but he was very aware of the problems with his culture and country and he had a good sense of things in that regard. Insightful maybe is the word I'm going for.

 

He can still be insightful and protective and good ol boy in the game, but it's in pieces. It's just weird.

[Parasol_Syndicate]

Also to respond to some of your points from your previous post about endings I agree that it is kinda disappointing how we don't learn about Vatnir's fate unless he's killed by the cult. As for him going back to the cult once everything's over... Would he still want that? (I don't know, that's why I'm asking. But my feeling is that he wants to leave this place. I might be wrong).

 

 

 

I forced him to come on the expedition (didn't persuade, out and out dragged him) and let him handle the explanations at the end.

He said it was imperative that the other guy stay in charge, and that he was needed at the Duskspeaker's side.

 

So given the option, he seems to want to leave. 

[Guest]

 

 

Minor thing I didn't like: I didn't like that Eder's only reactions to animals and wilder was "can i pet them" like yeah I know Eder's been like this but at this point it's like a tired joke. For example in White March he has a scene where he helps an injured wolf... it showed his affection for animals in a different way than just the brainless "must pet”.

Eder in Pillars 1 was a well-rounded character who flirted with stereotypes without giving in to them. Eder is Pillars 2 is Jethro from the Beverly Hillbillies.

I don't *100%* agree but I really relate to /get what you're saying. Playing PoE 1 really emphasizes how off Eder feels in parts of Deadfire. It's really surreal. Especially because when they're not playing him up for laughs, I think the way he's written goes in the right direction. Like Eder wasn't ever crazy smart, but he was very aware of the problems with his culture and country and he had a good sense of things in that regard. Insightful maybe is the word I'm going for.

 

He can still be insightful and protective and good ol boy in the game, but it's in pieces. It's just weird.

Yeah, to be fair, I’m being slightly hyperbolic. I guess I’m just disappointed by how much they jettisoned the darker tone of the first game. And unfortunately this contrast is most apparent with the returning characters.

[handsomenat]

Uhh... didn't one of the developers say that Eder was written in parts by three different writers in Deadfire? I don't really like how Eder is characterized in the sequel so maybe it's due to that. Or maybe it's a standard practice and usually works out? Anyway yeah it's disappointing how Eder was handled in this game, playing straight his low int and throwing in love for animals as a flavor so we still recognize the guy. There has been a topic here on the forum about him already so I'm not sure if we should discuss this further here...? But I just wanted to say that I agree with your points. Some people were perfectly fine with how Eder felt in this game too so I think it always feels so... validating when you find you're not the only one.

[AndreaColombo]

For the base game, Eric Fenstermaker wrote most of Edér. Josh filled in the missing bits. For BoW, it was Josh and Paul.

[Verde]

Overall I thought the DLC was everything the base game should have been - focused and narrative driven. I'm glad to see Obsidian still has it because after all the bugs and cringey dialogue I was wondering if Deadfire was made by the B team

[uuuhhii]

Uhh... didn't one of the developers say that Eder was written in parts by three different writers in Deadfire? I don't really like how Eder is characterized in the sequel so maybe it's due to that. Or maybe it's a standard practice and usually works out? Anyway yeah it's disappointing how Eder was handled in this game, playing straight his low int and throwing in love for animals as a flavor so we still recognize the guy. There has been a topic here on the forum about him already so I'm not sure if we should discuss this further here...? But I just wanted to say that I agree with your points. Some people were perfectly fine with how Eder felt in this game too so I think it always feels so... validating when you find you're not the only one.

the old lover thing doesn't have much setup and lack content

but other part of eder are good enough

[AndreaColombo]

The old lover thing was actually the focal point of the short story Eric had written about Edér. I thought it was a nice tie-in.

[Starwars]

I like Edér a lot in Deadfire as well as in PoE1. Though I think he definitely felt like he was more of a centerpiece to PoE1. And I would agree that they need to lay the "pet animals!" thing to rest a bit.

 

As far as BoW goes, I have mixed feelings on it I have to say.

 

+ The setting is cool (no pun intended)

+ It's a nice change to get some quality time with a single god again. It's mainly bickering in the main game, so it's great to focus on just one. And Rymrgand is a glorious butthole, makes for a good character I think.

+ I like that they went a bit crazy with the areas, nice to get into more obviously supernatural stuff in the Beyond.

+ Probably my most favorite thing was the lore tidbits. It was all interesting to me, with Waidwen's story being the highlight. I wish we had gotten even more backstory because that was genuinely fascinating.

 

-The combat was a huge step back from Deadfire I think. For the main game, it felt like they made an effort to pull back on the encounters and I think it really improved the pace and made the game "breathe" a bit. For BoW, I think it once again feels 1) too copy/paste and 2) overly reliant on "mobs popping up behind your party". It never turns into a slog like Gambino's Workshop but it definitely felt like a move in the wrong direction for me. It felt like padding.

-Gimmicks like teleportation puzzles and raising/lowering water levels feel like a creative lowpoint. And again, it just feels like padding that slows the game down. Puzzles can be fun in RPGs, but the ones in BoW just felt really uninspired and like you've seen it a million times before.

 

So yeah, setting, story, choices and lore were really cool. The more immediate gameplay like exploration, combat and puzzles was pretty mediocre I think.

 

A good addition to the game I would say!