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I wanted to start this topic to say that for me Beast of Winter pretty much delivered everything I wanted after playing PoE games. At least in terms of ideas and lore.

 

It had:

  • pale elf lore! Back when playing PoE1 I specifically picked a pale elf for my second Watcher hoping for some unique reactivity that would give me a better understanding of the weird elves of the setting but I was really disappointed. And now they delivered :D
  • weird stuff related to being a Watcher - exploring the Beyond, talking to spirits. Expanding on what makes the Watcher unique (not their renown or relative power in the world) is always good in my book.
  • new hot godlike
  • new content for companions, including sidekicks like Ydwin and Rekke (although I didn't get that much Rekke content, perhaps if I picked different dialogue paths?)
  • exploration of already established major events - it was a new dlc with new locations but instead of just focusing on introducing brand new unrelated stuff it expanded on Waidwen and Ukaizo and also Rymrgand. It fits in the main game pretty well imo.

 

It had some comedic moments too... like roleplaying Durance. Also hats off to the environment artists!

 

Minor thing I didn't like: I didn't like that Eder's only reactions to animals and wilder was "can i pet them" like yeah I know Eder's been like this but at this point it's like a tired joke. For example in White March he has a scene where he helps an injured wolf... it showed his affection for animals in a different way than just the brainless "must pet".

 

What I also kinda missed - although this doesn't have to be about the DLC, could be about the main game too - was the lack of conversation with your companions where you could just asked them how they feel about what happened. You see a vision of Ukaizo but can't talk about it with Tekehu. With meeting Waidwen Eder consistently interjects, so that felt okay, but in other cases... I really wanted to hear more from Vatnir as well.

 

Those are my impressions I wanted to share. So far I don't feel confident enough to talk about themes etc. Perhaps after another playthrough. But overall I was really excited for this DLC and I wasn't disappointed.

Edited by handsomenat
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The difficulty curve feels off from the rest of the game.  Because of level adjustment, the enemies are kicking my butt at level 20, there are a ton of traps which I can only see from inches away, and the dragon curbstomps me everytime I try to fight it. The soul allies I worked long and hard to gather do absolutely nothing to help.

 

On the plus side, the new art and backgrounds are indeed gorgeous, and the Durance cameo did bring a massive smile to my face. 

 

Wish I could find out how it ends. Maybe someday. 

Magran's fire casts light in Dark Places...

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Soul ally didn't help me either (I got only the king and decided to free others...). As for the difficulty, I was rather impatient and went there at level 9 and played on lower difficulty just so I could keep going. I can't really give any feedback on that, sorry.

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The soul allies don't seem to help you in the fight with the dragon at all, what they seem to do is debuff the dragon. I played through the DLC twice, the first time without allies the dragon had an absurd armor rating of 18, the second time I had two allies and the dragon was down to an armor rating of 13.

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pale elf lore! Back when playing PoE1 I specifically picked a pale elf for my second Watcher hoping for some unique reactivity that would give me a better understanding of the weird elves of the setting but I was really disappointed. And now they delivered :D

Could you please share some of that lore here?  I'm making a Pale Elf Watcher of my own and would be keenly interested in information I can use to roleplay her properly!  :)

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Well I discovered that Rmyrgand is a double dealing two timing ****.  So it's nice to know that my Pro-Kith/Godsskeptic Watcher has more ammunition for his cause.

 

So thanks for that Rmyry.  :thumbsup:

 

====

 

Really good DLC all the way around.  Complex zones (sometimes a bit too complex), challenging fights, and engrossing conversations. 

 

Plus, did I mention how it confirmed that Rymrgand is a bit of a ****-weasel?  Coz he is. :lol:

 

Was kinda impressed how sorry I felt for Waidwen at times, though it did get lessened a bit at the end of that questline.

As for Eothas, I was also impressed how I simultaneously felt MORE irritated with his actions involving the Saints War while trying to figure out just what his game really was.  Guess he really is Captain Ends Justify The Means... Especially if I Really Feel Conflicted About It.

 

Finally, I REALLY loved Vatnir.  He wasn't at all what I was expecting.  And I couldn't help but share his disgust with Rymrgand at the end when he basically called Ryrmy out.

 

All in all a very well done DLC.  Felt about the same amount of content as White March 1, if maybe a tad less.

 

My only real complaint is the lack of quick travel between zones. As I said in my thread I started on this, run run run load run run load load ain't my idea of a great time. ;)

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Rymrgand is such a bastard. If you're from White that Wends, he greets you with this:

 

rQeRa4h.jpg

 

Like an abusive father or something. Or when he says to Vatnir that life is suffering and what he offers is the end to it...  He's the reason Vatnir suffers more in the first place. (But we've seen this bs from Hylea too, just dressed differently).

 

---

 

Some pale elf lore tidbits:

Their language has nordic influences and you'll hear even full sentences sometimes. They call White that Wends simply the Land. They live in clans and travel together, children are brought up communally. Seems that Rymrgand worship is dominant.

Generally you learn more about them when you speak to a doomsday cult, a spirit of a Rymrgand's chosen guardian who lived centuries ago, Vatnir and when Ydwin interjects. Ydwin contests their religious beliefs and philosophy. It's a mixed bag of sources, one is a cult that isn't representative of the whole people (and it's suggested that there are regional differences when your Watcher frow WtW doesn't recognize a type of alcohol), other is a religious figure from way back who really loves WtW and accepts Rymrgand, there's also a perspective of a godlike and of a person who escaped the land and is anti-religious.

Edited by handsomenat
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The soul allies don't seem to help you in the fight with the dragon at all, what they seem to do is debuff the dragon. I played through the DLC twice, the first time without allies the dragon had an absurd armor rating of 18, the second time I had two allies and the dragon was down to an armor rating of 13.

 

 

Yeah. I can hack it okay for the first half of the fight, then his armor jumps up to 19. I have a melee party and can't do much about that. 

Magran's fire casts light in Dark Places...

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Rymrgand is such a bastard. If you're from White that Wends, he greets you with this:

 

rQeRa4h.jpg

 

Like an abusive father or something. Or when he says to Vatnir that life is suffering and what he offers is the end to it...  He's the reason Vatnir suffers more in the first place. (But we've seen this bs from Hylea too, just dressed differently).

 

 

 

Yeah, he's definitely a piece of work.  I purposefully set up a situation where I could do a quick run-through where I had the three souls go to the Wheel (which is what I played through) or where I let them dissolve into Oblivion.

 

You'd think Rymrgand would be grateful or at least appreciative that I followed his 'rules'.

 

Well, actually, maybe you wouldn't think that at all.  And you'd be right. :lol:

 

Haven't confirmed this yet, but I'm pretty sure you get this convo option if and only if you have all three boss souls consigned to Oblivion:

 

Watcher: Rynhaedr said you wanted those souls destroyed.  So I destroyed them.

Rymrgand:  Why?

Watcher: I wanted to gain your favor.  [one of four options, but this is the 'best' one for what I am going for]

Rymrgand: You have my attention.  Will you pledge yourself to my service?

Watcher: No.

Rymrgand: Then you did not succeed.

 

Wow.  Rude. :lol:

 

REAL glad I followed my instincts and didn't send any of those folks to Oblivion now. :p

 

Also his flippant answers about chimes and whether or not this was his plan all along ALMOST made me respect him in a "Huh.  You really are the master of ice cold wit, aren't ya".  ALMOST. ;)

 

So, yeah.  I'd say ol'Rmyry can stick his horns where the sun don't shine... Except that's kinda already his home, so I suspect it wouldn't have the value it might otherwise have.

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Getting back to the DLC proper, I have to say I was intrigued to see that a piece of Eothas' soul was ripped off and sent to the pocket realm in the White Void when the Godhammer went off.  Xoti speculated as much in the base game that whatever was tromping around wasn't really Eothas, at least not in full, and it looks like she might have been right. At least somewhat. 

 

We probably won't get too much more on that front in this game, if ever.  But I must admit it does put some of the other conversations with Eothas in a slightly different light.  Like, if part of his motivations and outlook were shorn away, what does that mean for Eothas Prime?

 

Not quite as intriguing, since being a god it's kinda par for the course, but still interesting was the fact that Eothas knew that the Godhammer was going to go off.  Not only did he know, but he thought it would further his plans.  Which, I suppose come to think of it, is kinda intriguing after all.  

 

I'd say he was kinda dickish not to let Waidwen know about it, but I suppose I can see the whole 'sparing his friend pain' angle.

 

The one square that I don't think has been circled yet is:  Just whose idea was it to start the war in the first place?  Kinda ambiguous, even after this DLC. Waidwen had a hell of a lot more agency than I thought he would have.  Yet he did sound more than a little different as 'just' Waidwen versus the combined Waidwen/Eothas gestalt as the Godhammer went off.

 

But even the fragment of Eothas was different from the gestalt as well, if those soul fragments are at all accurate.  Which the game actually takes pains to say might not be.

 

Still... Still interested just whose idea it was to start the Saints War.  Kinda suspect it was Eothas given his whole "drive a wedge between Kith and Gods" goal, but given how Waidwen started to think as a man, it might have been hand-in-glove.

I suppose Eothas' comment about (paraphrasing from memory) a new Empire makes me suspect he was already planning the War.  

 

Also interested just how much the whole coming Hollowborn crisis factored into this, if at all.  It's a hell of a coincidence that Eothas decided to drive kith and gods apart just as The Leaden Key was making its final push in regards to elevating Woedica.  

 

Perhaps it's up to us connect the dots and not have it spelled out for us.  Or it's a Thirty Xantos Pileup, to use the old TV Tropes name.  Given how much the gods of Eora are patterned after mythological gods and all the disputes THEY had, maybe it really was just the latter. ;)

 

Lots of meat to chew on the bone here from the DLC, that's for sure.

Edited by Zap Gun For Hire
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Not quite as intriguing, since being a god it's kinda par for the course, but still interesting was the fact that Eothas knew that the Godhammer was going to go off.  Not only did he know, but he thought it would further his plans.  Which, I suppose come to think of it, is kinda intriguing after all.  

 

I'd say he was kinda dickish not to let Waidwen know about it, but I suppose I can see the whole 'sparing his friend pain' angle.

 

Eothas just a naive and foolish god.

 

Honestly, I don't think Eder really have much content in DLC, he only just some few dialogue with Waidwen and he doesn't talk Waidwen about Woden. Oh yes, The Watcher can bring Waidwen to Ukaizo. But it won't stop Eothas destroy The Wheel. It's kind of disappointed.

Edited by misterjimmy
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I made an entire sidekick party to run thru the DLC and Ydwin definitely shared the spotlight with Vatnir when they offered their progressive and traditional views.  If she was a full companion, she and Pallegina would probably be BFFs or even more. ;)  Having said that, it feels like there's a bit of dialogue that feels super "cruel" despite having no linked disposition. 

 

At the final confrontation with Rymgrand, I had the option to trade Ydwin for my freedom so I did because I haven't seen that  play out before.  Prior to that I was being all chummy with my responses to her so it was hard hearing her voice crack in disbelief after being betrayed by me and offered to the one god she loathes.  I'm actually surprised Rymgrand didn't make a whole stink right away about Ydwin's undeath when he clearly despised how the dragon was doing it.  Fassina the entire way had doubts that following me was probably a worst idea than staying Arkemyr's apprentice lol.

 

Of all the sidekicks, I think Mirke is now the one with the least interactions.

Edited by Metaturtle
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Filthy Chanter Main  :dragon:   :skull:  :skull:  :skull:  -_-

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I like Fassina's "realistic" personality in the dlc like she had lines like "bro ftw are you doing arkemyr's manor was a more homey place than this". 

 

Other nice lines from Fassina are "I wish that dragon would land on Arkemyr's Manor next". 

 

Rymrgand is more "diplomatic" in his responses to you if you are kind of straightforward and earnest with him - but in the end I was just like "yo I am only here for the loot" (which I was) and you do get extra loots if you fight him. 

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I like Fassina's "realistic" personality in the dlc like she had lines like "bro ftw are you doing arkemyr's manor was a more homey place than this". 

 

Other nice lines from Fassina are "I wish that dragon would land on Arkemyr's Manor next". 

 

Rymrgand is more "diplomatic" in his responses to you if you are kind of straightforward and earnest with him - but in the end I was just like "yo I am only here for the loot" (which I was) and you do get extra loots if you fight him. 

wish fassina will be upgrade to companion the most

but unlikely

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I love the discussion in this thread. :D

 

The DLC did some really cool things and also reminded me of a couple of cool things in the game. I'm on the phone so I don't know if I can do it justice right now. Hopefully I'll be on a keyboard soon and be able to contribute more than just "I like it."

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I didn't know that Fassina had extra content as well, that's cool! I've also replayed today a small portion of the dlc where you talk with Rynhaedr so I could take some screenshots and it looks like I missed some info the first time. That question about pale elf lore got me thinking that maybe i should make a compilation. Preferably after a second playthrough.

Edited by handsomenat
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Okay so I'm still on the phone, but I'm still stuck somewhere so I'll say a couple things.

 

I felt mostly positive about the companion involvement. I was really satisfied with how often they interjected into conversations, and they were extremely responsive in that sense. I also really liked that Eder got some special attention and Xoti had some of her own comments. I do wish that there was some more in depth hub conversations or something,asking what they think about the situation. More specifically for people like Eder and Aloth and Tekehu. Maybe Pallegina. It felt weird that they sort of poke at the situation but don't think much about it beyond that. Something on the level of Aloth's conversation after Iovarra or Eder's stuff on the Dozens and Crucible would have been great.

 

(For the record, I'm assuming none of them have that because Eder and my other companions didn't.)

 

---

 

I thought Rymrgand was fantastic in this DLC. I was so excited that we could have a proper conversation where we could ask questions and make points and have a variety of reactions to him.

 

They also did a great job at showing that unhealthy power dynamic between kith and gods and the lack of respect. Rymrgand tries and sometimes succeeds to *force* you to do something multiple times. He does not treat you like a person or largely consider what you have to say or how you feel. He tries to coerce you into servitude and then oblivion. If you try to keep or argue about the artifact the dragon attached her soul to, he just takes it from you. There is no chance to say no or fight it.

 

It's gross and messed up. The abusive father comparison is really on point.

Edited by Tick
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One day I am totally going to do that all-sidekick run. Ooooone day. But first, I'll do the bomber run. I collected quite a lot of new shiny explosives throughout Beast of Winter, would be a damn shame for them to go waste. :shifty:

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Some pale elf lore tidbits:

Their language has nordic influences and you'll hear even full sentences sometimes. They call White that Wends simply the Land. They live in clans and travel together, children are brought up communally. Seems that Rymrgand worship is dominant.

Generally you learn more about them when you speak to a doomsday cult, a spirit of a Rymrgand's chosen guardian who lived centuries ago, Vatnir and when Ydwin interjects. Ydwin contests their religious beliefs and philosophy. It's a mixed bag of sources, one is a cult that isn't representative of the whole people (and it's suggested that there are regional differences when your Watcher frow WtW doesn't recognize a type of alcohol), other is a religious figure from way back who really loves WtW and accepts Rymrgand, there's also a perspective of a godlike and of a person who escaped the land and is anti-religious.

I see...I'm not exactly sure how to process that into roleplaying...I do want to be Benevolent and Honest, but I'm not sure where to go from there...It sounds like living in a place like the Land makes you Stoic too, needing to put up with the climate and Rymrgand's oppressive presence in their lives...

Edited by jtbehnke
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Character's background shouldn't be the only thing determining their personality. You can always play against the type. Just use lore as a jumping point or to simply know where they're coming from.

 

Another thing that I learned after re-playing the dialogue with Rynhaedr (the guardian from way back) is that the Land changed. The coastal White that Wends has seen influence from Vailians and other cultures and their way of life changed as well. There are settlements on the coast. Clans from inland are still mostly traditional. Another thing I missed out at first is that priests traditionally were clan leaders. There are no marriages either. Region as a whole seems very poor and life there is hard. Both Vatnir and Ydwin seem to hate this place; Ydwin managed to escape and assimilate into Vailian culture, Vatnir... I don't know how much should I tell without spoiling. Also pale elves you meet have a whole range of personalities, your Watcher could really display whatever dispositions you pick for them. I myself played as a mostly stoic and benevolent character.

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Konstanten's reactions were pretty honest and matter of fact as a dude who used to work in a brothel. My favorite lines from him was when I entered the queries for the first time and seeing the bound woman.

 

Konstanten: "Ymir'd would give his left nut to see this!"

 

And when I told the inquisitors to kiss...

 

Konstanten: "I've got some beers in my pack that can speed this along if you want."

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Filthy Chanter Main  :dragon:   :skull:  :skull:  :skull:  -_-

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I watched a vid with some of the party comments and his reaction to the dragon getting back up was gold:

 

"Really?!  Sss****!"

 

My thoughts exactly, Konstanten.  My thoughts exactly...

Edited by jtbehnke
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