The core of the problem: you are a pirate

[Matteo89.b]

I would like to know your opinion about this.

 

In my opinion, the major problem of this game is the whole " Sea travelling " thing.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, it would be nice if we had the freedom of roleplaying it as we please. Like, roleplaying your voyages as if you are on a civilian / military ship, doing your things following your moral code.

 

 

Instead, the game force us to be a pirate.

 

You have to hire Pirates / wannabe pirates as crew members. The default crew you already have behave like pirates.

 

You have to feed them well and give them rum or similar things to keep them happy or they rebel.

 

Your crew pressure you to pillage for treasures.

 

 

 

Now, this is all good and well.

 

...if you want to roleplay as a pirate.

 

Else, it's the game forcing you to play like it wants.

 

 

 

So, in my opinion this whole thing could have been done better. Way better.

 

A missed opportunity, considering that travelling by ship has a major role in the game.

 

 

 

And now, for example, my char and my party members (all good people) are forced to play in a pirate ship, with pirate crew, because else you can do nothing in this game.

 

Way to obliterate any kind of roleplaying, unless you like being a pirate.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Matteo89.b

[Kexby]

I agree with you Matt, I hate being a pirate. That's not how I want to roleplay the game at all. I don't like being the 'Watcher' and savior of the world either (but that's another topic).

 

I find myself being forced to do things that don't suit my character and it really bugs me. It's not enough to stop me playing, but it's irksome none the less.

 

I played Skyrim with the 'Skyrim Unbound' mod and it was glorious! I've never enjoyed the game more than when I wasn't the Dragonborn and I could just make up my own story and background. The roleplaying freedom was wonderful.

 

So if they ever make PoE3, I hope they'll consider adding a bit more freedom to the game.

[Matteo89.b]

I'm glad that i'm not the only one that feel the " Pirate " thing is wrong.

 

I'm quite surprised that Obsidian never thought about that. Because in these RPG the very fundament, the base, is the ability to choose to roleplay as a Good or Evil character.

 

Now, a pirate can be only from Neutral Evil to Completely Evil (chaotic / lawful ). So, this ruin the immersion, the whole roleplay.

 

 

And i hope noone will start arguing that pirates can be good guys. Jack Sparrow characters belongs only to movies.

 

A pirate is someone that take other's belongings by force. This alone close all the doors to Good allignments.

 

And in truth, i hate seeing my good Watcher of PoE1 being forced to play with Pirates.

 

My Watcher is the kind of girl that would send pirates in prison, not sail with them.

 

 

But Obsidian forced us to team with pirates. No choices on the matter.

 

 

So if they ever make PoE3, I hope they'll consider adding a bit more freedom to the game.

 

That's my problem and my personal choice, but i won't give Obsidian another chance.

 

While this game is nonetheless good to play, things like this one makes the game absolutely not worthy of the money i spent as a backer.

 

This was the first time i backed something and it will be the last.

 

For me there will be no PoE 3.

 

 

...40 gb of a game and they miss basic things like allowing players the freedom to play as they choose.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Matteo89.b

[Purudaya]

I think a lot of people think of roleplaying and having preset story parameters as being mutually exclusive. I can understand the appeal of totally making up your own story, but games like the Elder Scrolls series tend to suffer from a lack of narrative focus/urgency and character development as a result. PoE is more along the lines of the infinity engine games in that it places the character in a controlled set of circumstances and the player can then roleplay how his/her character would respond. Deadfire doesn't make you fill a seafarer role due to poor mechanics or lack of gameplay options, it's all explained through the narrative: 

 

1. You wake up on a ship with a crew that was purchased for you.
2. You discover that you're going to need that ship to recover your soul.

3. You happen to be in the fantasy equivalent of the Caribbean, so that's going to be the demographic from which you hire further shipmates.

So yeah, the circumstances you're thrown into are predefined (just like they were in Baldur's Gate II), but you can still very much roleplay this game however you want. Your character may have to sail around on a ship with a crew full of salty personalities out of necessity, but that doesn't mean s/he has to like it. I'm actually looking forward to playing an anti-Principi paladin on my next playthrough in part because of the potential role-playing aspect of going against the grain. 

Speaking of BGII, I'm reminded of lawful good characters having to address the moral dilemma of siding with either thieves or vampires to advance the story in that game. Sometimes a few limitations on player freedom can make for much more interesting roleplaying opportunities than a write-it-yourself approach can.

 

EDIT: All that said, it's perfectly possible to crew your ship without a single "pirate"-like crew member. In addition to crew members representing Valian, Huana, and Rautai factions, there are imps, wilder, undead, and other non-human crew mates to choose from as well. I believe they also have personality flags that affect how some ship events trigger, but don't quote me on that. 


 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Purudaya

[Lexx]

Well, my character isn't exactly doing very piratey things. He isn't robbing people, he isn't boarding ships that don't attack first, heck, he isn't even searching, looting or hiding stashes of stolen cash on remote islands.

 

Therefore, no, I am not a pirate.

[Heijoushin]

You don't have to be a pirate. As Purudaya says, you're simply a victim of circumstance. Namely, you need a ship and people to run that ship to get your soul back.

 

Personally, I always felt like the Watcher first, the gods' plaything second, all else third.

[algroth]

My crew asks me for lager, and that's what I give them. Woe is me, my ship is piloted by Bohemians.

Edited August 4, 2018 by algroth

[Murp]

I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[asnjas]

The deadfires theme is pirates and mercenary. It even establishes this in poe. So pirate crew makes perfect sense given the entire game takes place in the deadfires. Pirates isn't wrong when it's the main theme of the entire location.

[Guest]

EDIT: All that said, it's perfectly possible to crew your ship without a single "pirate"-like crew member. In addition to crew members representing Valian, Huana, and Rautai factions, there are imps, wilder, undead, and other non-human crew mates to choose from as well. I believe they also have personality flags that affect how some ship events trigger, but don't quote me on that. 

Indeed, not a single pirate on my ship. There's a Scripted Interaction where the crew asks you to make an introduction. While "Blarg, I be a pirate!" is an option, it's not the only one. You can emphasize that you're here to be a force for good and your crew responds positively.

[Boeroer]

Nobody forces you to be a pirate. Did you actually play the game?

[Matteo89.b]

 

Nobody forces you to be a pirate. Did you actually play the game?

 

Indeed. Else i won't be here talking about this.

 

I played for many hours when the game was published.

[Zap Gun For Hire]

You don't have to attack other ships.

 

+0 morale food/drink is fairly cheap.

 

Gold, to buy said food/drink, even for strict Ultra Good Folks, is fairly plentiful.

 

There are random events/encounters on the World Map which can boost morale of the crew.

 

So, sure, the game makes it easy to be a pirate. It certainly will give you many advantages and little to no disadvantages.

 

But near as I can tell it doesn't force one to act like a pirate.  Especially if you tell all the people who are trying to get you to act like a pirate to shove off.

 

===

 

NOTE:  The difference between being a pirate, a mercenary, and a privateer can be a mighty thin one indeed.  Especially for a place where just who is in charge can be... fluid.

 

The game lets one be a merc fairly easily.   This much is true.

 

Whether one thinks of one as a mercenary or if one chooses to cover themselves in a veneer of respectability is up to the Watcher in question. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Zap Gun For Hire

[Fardragon]

There is absolutly no requirement to engange in any illegal activities in this game.

 

Sure, you are frequently invited too - it shows strength of character to turn them down.

[Zap Gun For Hire]

Also a game mechanic to consider:

 

Your crew doesn't consume food/drink when one is off ship, and won't even get paid at certain ports.  Maybe they're off fishing somewhere or boozing it up in a town if you're at port.

 

So even if one doesn't like the fact that your crew is eating you out of house and home, that can be mitigated with clever sailing.

 

And, as said, Rice Wine and Ale is cheap (especially if it is bought at certain stores) and so is Rice and other +0 food.  Even keeping the crew at the initial state of +70 isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things.  No one says you HAVE to get your crew to 100 morale.

 

Just hire folks you think you like and dump the ones who offend your sensibilities.   Plenty of sailors looking for work at various ports, after all. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Zap Gun For Hire

[Boeroer]

 

Nobody forces you to be a pirate. Did you actually play the game?

Indeed. Else i won't be here talking about this.

 

I played for many hours when the game was published.

Then I would say it's even worse that you claim to be forced to be a pirate despite better knowledge.

 

If you don't like the whole "Pirates of the Caribbean" vibe that's fine, but (mildly) ranting about problems which are only self-perceived is supposed to lead us where...?

[Matteo89.b]

 

Then I would say it's even worse that you claim to be forced to be a pirate despite better knowledge.

 

If you don't like the whole "Pirates of the Caribbean" vibe that's fine, but (mildly) ranting about problems which are only self-perceived is supposed to lead us where...?

 

As i clearly stated at the beginning of this thread, i wrote an opinion on a mechanic of the game and asked other users for their opinions.

 

And you know what ? Turns out that many people have interesting ideas.

 

The one who is not constructive at all here is you.

 

You are not giving an opinion, nor a suggestion.

 

You are simply stating that in your opinion i'm ranting.

 

But even if i were, telling me that will surely lead us nowhere.

 

If you think i'm wrong, state clearly the reasons. Be constructive, show me why i'm wrong.

[FlintlockJazz]

Giving your crew rum does not make them pirates. The British Navy would ply their crew with rum, they actually had a rum ration, and calling them pirates would get you swinging from the gallows. They even supposedly used a barrel of rum to keep Admiral Nelson's body preserved. Most crews pirate or not drank while at sea because ship life was hard and it was the only thing to do.

 

The crew at no point pressures you to pillage for treasure. Singing sea shanties (I'm guessing that is what you mean by behaving like pirates?) was done by all crews. It sounds more like you think being a sailor of the period automatically makes you a pirate??! 

 

As for the caribbean setting, you entered the game knowing the setting and complaining about it is like complaining about Skyrim including Norse stuff or that it isn't sci-fi...

[Guest]

 

 

Then I would say it's even worse that you claim to be forced to be a pirate despite better knowledge.

 

If you don't like the whole "Pirates of the Caribbean" vibe that's fine, but (mildly) ranting about problems which are only self-perceived is supposed to lead us where...?

 

As i clearly stated at the beginning of this thread, i wrote an opinion on a mechanic of the game and asked other users for their opinions.

 

If you think i'm wrong, state clearly the reasons. Be constructive, show me why i'm wrong.

 

Nay, friend. 

 

This is an argument: "The core of the problem: you are a pirate"

 

This is an argument too: "Instead, the game force us to be a pirate.

You have to hire Pirates / wannabe pirates as crew members. The default crew you already have behave like pirates.

You have to feed them well and give them rum or similar things to keep them happy or they rebel.

Your crew pressure you to pillage for treasures."

 

Since you neither "have" to do any of these thing, nor are you "forced", the argument is based on false premises and therefore fallacious. Boeroer is merely pointing this out. Maybe not as politely as you would like, but that's beside the point. 

[Boeroer]

You are not giving an opinion, nor a suggestion.

 

You are simply stating that in your opinion i'm ranting.

Then I'm giving an opinion after all.

 

 

 

If you think i'm wrong, state clearly the reasons. Be constructive, show me why i'm wrong.

 

I'm super constructive in showing you that your initial statement (on that all your reasoning is based) is wrong. As several others already mentioned: you are not forced to be a pirate nur do you start as one. I do not need to repeat their arguments.

 

This completely eliminates the reason to discuss further why that is a bad thing - because there is no such thing.

 

And in doing so I prevent others from reading your unwithspoken statement and think "Wow I'm forced to be a pirate - that's bad, I don't want to buy/play this game." And that's why I'm not superpolite about this. I don't like it if people post their feels as if it were facts and influence other people who don't know the game yet and maybe push them away. You could have written your OP in a more differentiated and informed way (e.g. that you have the feeling that the game kind of pushes you towards piracy or so - which would be totally fine with me), but you chose not to.

 

Sorry if I came over as supergrumpy - I didn't mean to. But I wasn't happy about it either. 

Edited August 7, 2018 by Boeroer

[pstone]

 

 

Then I would say it's even worse that you claim to be forced to be a pirate despite better knowledge.

 

If you don't like the whole "Pirates of the Caribbean" vibe that's fine, but (mildly) ranting about problems which are only self-perceived is supposed to lead us where...?

 

As i clearly stated at the beginning of this thread, i wrote an opinion on a mechanic of the game and asked other users for their opinions.

 

And you know what ? Turns out that many people have interesting ideas.

 

The one who is not constructive at all here is you.

 

You are not giving an opinion, nor a suggestion.

 

You are simply stating that in your opinion i'm ranting.

 

But even if i were, telling me that will surely lead us nowhere.

 

If you think i'm wrong, state clearly the reasons. Be constructive, show me why i'm wrong.

 

 

I was on the verge of writing a similar post as Boeroe, since what you describe in the first post is so different from my experience that i thought it had to be flamebait or by someone who didn't actually play the game. But since you seem to really have had this experience, here are some pointers:

 

1) After a few days of sailing, you get an ship event where you outline the mission of your ship. I choose force of good, work hard and so will i for you, no piracy etc.

2) The crew is what you have available at first. But every harbor has more crew members, so you can remove complete drunkards etc (see their traits in the description)

3) Your crew are just regular sailors (i.e. not military). Your can still run a tight ship in random events, but you are not part of a navy.

4) You can avoid privateering and piracy altogether. Any faction you are in good standing with won't attack you (including pirates!), and i never attacked neutrals (like merchants)

5) Gold for food and drink will soon be plentiful. At first many islands have fresh fruit, which will offset the moral malus of water. But i usually just buy them cheap rice wine to keep em happy

 

So in my experience, you are not forced to piracy. You sometimes need to put your foot down when crew members have a "great" idea, but this is always possible.

[Aranduin]

I run a pirate but if I want in my next game I maybe not be. I can stop attacks ship except in self-defense ( and I can try run If I want). You choose be a pirate.

[Matteo89.b]

Well, since a majority of people seems to have a different opinion, i have to think that maybe i played and felt the game in a bad way.

 

Maybe i unconsciously tought that being a pirate was unavoidable? Who knows.

 

But i'm lucky that now i have 2 weeks of holiday from work. I will try in these days to play again and see if you can actually avoid being a pirate.

 

And if, like you all are saying, it is true, i will write that in this topic. Without a problem.

 

 

Sorry if I came over as supergrumpy - I didn't mean to. But I wasn't happy about it either.

 

People are allowed to have different opinions. I respect that, but i admit that i become supergrumpy too, when others tells me that i'm ranting or flamebaiting, and such.

 

On the net being polite is such a difficult thing, a lot of people talk to others as if they are friends hanging around in a bar...

[Wormerine]

But... you are not a pirate. To be honest, the closest you can do is allying with piratey faction. You are in watery enviroment - ship is handy in moving around. Ship needs crew to operate it, crew needs to be fed and paid. Give them crappy food and they will get upset. You can act as bounty hunter, killing notorous pirates/privateers, but you can't become one.

If anything I wished the pirate/priateer them was more prominent. I wish factions could "hire" you and your actions on the world map would reflect your personal alliegences. I wish your actions on the worldmap would have an effect on your relations with factions. Actually, scrap that. I don't really need that in Deadfire. I just want Firaxis to do Pirates2 already. The previous remake doesn't work with widescreen settings. 

[Boeroer]

Well to be fair (towards me ): I said "mildly ranting".

 

But i'm lucky that now i have 2 weeks of holiday from work. I will try in these days to play again and see if you can actually avoid being a pirate.

 

 

 

And if, like you all are saying, it is true, i will write that in this topic. Without a problem.

That's a nice thing.

 

Err I mean both: having 2 weeks of holidays and reporting what you found out.

 

To be fair (towards you): the game gives you rewards for freebooting and stuff, so one could feel he/she is supposed to be a pirate. Not forced though.