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If I understand it correctly then that's what it is now: monk fist for everybody. I can't remember if Monastic gives drastically different scaling bonuses than Transcendent Suffering...?

 

However - I hope now a fun pitfighter build (that doesn't involve monk) is at least viable. I like the idea to bring my unarmed barb over from PoE.

 

So I took a minute to create two hired adventurers and check. Unfortunately, they're only equal at PLs 1 and 3. By PL 9, a fighter with Monastic Unarmed Training is the equal of a monk at ... PL 6.

 

:(

 

(For reference: strikes start at +5% damage, +2 acc, +1 pen, and each upgrade seems to add +15% damage, +4 acc, +1 pen. Monks upgrade at PL 2, 4, 6, and 8. Monastic Unarmed Training upgrades at PL 3, 6, and 9. The patterns may or may not continue - I didn't test that.)

Edited by gkathellar
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If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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In my view, the time for buffing and nerfing was during the beta.  Once the game is out and I've paid for a game, they shouldn't be radically changing the gameplay.

 

Changing the power level of different classes fundamentally changes the game.  Maybe I want a game where I can be an OP druid or whatever) and smash everything.  I do my research and find and POE2 provides that.  I buy the game and then Druids are nerfed.  The developers have, after the fact, taken away the reason that I bought the game.

 

As another (ridiculous) example, if I buy a computer chess game, and afterward the developer nerfs the queen so that the queen can move, at most, 4 spaces, I'm reasonably upset whether or not the queen was OP to begin with.

 

These balance changes may make some people happy, but personally, I wish I had done more research into Obsidians tendency to change gameplay post-release.

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"Reputation screen now displays the player choices that led to changes with the companions' relationship."

 

This dos not apply to faction relationship, and also doesn't show any data for events that occurred prior to applying 1.2.0, FWIW.

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In my view, the time for buffing and nerfing was during the beta.  Once the game is out and I've paid for a game, they shouldn't be radically changing the gameplay.

 

Changing the power level of different classes fundamentally changes the game.  Maybe I want a game where I can be an OP druid or whatever) and smash everything.  I do my research and find and POE2 provides that.  I buy the game and then Druids are nerfed.  The developers have, after the fact, taken away the reason that I bought the game.

 

As another (ridiculous) example, if I buy a computer chess game, and afterward the developer nerfs the queen so that the queen can move, at most, 4 spaces, I'm reasonably upset whether or not the queen was OP to begin with.

 

These balance changes may make some people happy, but personally, I wish I had done more research into Obsidians tendency to change gameplay post-release.

Buy on GOG!

You can play on whatever patch you want then. Definitely the best platform for digital purchases rn.

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In my view, the time for buffing and nerfing was during the beta.  Once the game is out and I've paid for a game, they shouldn't be radically changing the gameplay.

 

Changing the power level of different classes fundamentally changes the game.  Maybe I want a game where I can be an OP druid or whatever) and smash everything.  I do my research and find and POE2 provides that.  I buy the game and then Druids are nerfed.  The developers have, after the fact, taken away the reason that I bought the game.

 

As another (ridiculous) example, if I buy a computer chess game, and afterward the developer nerfs the queen so that the queen can move, at most, 4 spaces, I'm reasonably upset whether or not the queen was OP to begin with.

 

These balance changes may make some people happy, but personally, I wish I had done more research into Obsidians tendency to change gameplay post-release.

 

FWIW, I do think the game feels better than it did two patches ago, and PoE1 build 3.0.7 is likewise a way better game than it was in build 1.0.1. So I do think there's a general trend towards improvement. But yes, I can totally understand the feeling, and it may be worth coming back to the game once all of the major DLC is out.

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If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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It is good that some game-breaking abilities were nerfed, although nerfing too much stuff will take feel of "special" from builds. Generally, it is better to buff underdog abilities than nerf good ones, provided that PotD is difficult enough.

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If it's not too much trouble, could we get the rendering error on the Sanguine Greatsword fixed in a future patch? 

 

It's just one weapon, but it bothers me to look at unskinned textures in a 'finished' game. 

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Magran's fire casts light in Dark Places...

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After a few more patches every unique will be just a special skin for a regular blue and every active ability will be just a flashy animation for a primary attack. The game will be perfectly balanced and the nerf moar crowd will finally be happy.

 

EDIT: Actually, trolls who cry for more nerfs will never be happy but we still need to kneejerk to their every whim, don't we?

Edited by prodigydancer
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Actually now you sound more trollish than every recent "Nerf moar!" guy on these boards. What crowds do you mean by the way? Most threads about balancing I read these days are from the "why balance a single player game?" faction.

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Actually now you sound more trollish

Yeah, I'm pretty annoyed with where the game is heading and feel no reason to conceal my disappointment. Personally, I'm still on 1.0.2 - disabled updates after a quick glance at 1.1 notes. I believe I'm entitled to some fun in a video game, and trying to break through brick walls using wet noodles doesn't sound like fun to me.

 

I'm not against nerfs in principle. There can be a rational explanation why something is indeed too powerful. But when a weapon provides 15% speed bonus and you nerf it to 5%, you make people like me a little annoyed. 5% - wow, that's noticeable. Turning every unique item into a total joke isn't a sane approach to balancing.

 

It's not even about whether the game is hard or easy. I'm not one of those who think that challenge > everything else, but I don't mind hard fights. It's more about how bleaching everything to the same shade of irrelevance destroys the reason to try new things and turns the game into boring and tedious grind.

 

Most threads about balancing I read these days are from the "why balance a single player game?" faction.

Don't you worry. Obsidian has always ignored us before and they'll do the same again this time. They never learn.

Edited by prodigydancer
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Yeah, I'm pretty annoyed with where the game is heading and feel no reason to conceal my disappointment. Personally, I'm still on 1.0.2 - disabled updates after a quick glance at 1.1 notes. I believe I'm entitled to some fun in a video game, and trying to break through brick walls using wet noodles doesn't sound like fun to me.

 

I'm not against nerfs in principle. There can be a rational explanation why something is indeed too powerful. But when a weapon provides 15% speed bonus and you nerf it to 5%, you make people like me a little annoyed. 5% - wow, that's noticeable. Turning every unique item into a total joke isn't a sane approach to balancing.

 

It's not even about whether the game is hard or easy. I'm not one of those who think that challenge > everything else, but I don't mind hard fights. It's more about how bleaching everything to the same shade of irrelevance destroys the reason to try new things and turns the game into boring and tedious grind.

 

Don't you worry. Obsidian has always ignored us before and they'll do the same again this time. They never learn.

 

Problem is, if you don't fix the really unbalanced items/skills the "same shade of irrelevance that destroys reason to try new things" is exactly what happens to ALL the other items/skills in the game and successfully answer to the question why a single player RPG needs a semblance of balance.

 

Adding to that, while the guys at Obsidian sure do their share of mistakes I think that overall they can be trusted about balancing issues considering PoE1 (doesn't mean it's perfect of course).

 

All things considered I've found the volume of whining about the patches excessive to the point of childishness. But that's probably me.

Edited by Daled
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I know my english is not the best, every single post will be a step closer to proper english, please bear with me until then  :)

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Problem is, if you don't fix the really unbalanced items/skills the "same shade of irrelevance that destroys reason to try new things" is exactly what happens to ALL the other items/skills in the game and why a single player RPG needs a semblance of balance.

 

That's fair. The real problem is when the blanket nerfing extends to stuff that wasn't OP to begin with—but I guess by now we've beaten this dead horse to a second death.


"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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And you are right if that's true and they don't fix it but I also think that they have more data and experience to asses if something is OP or not (probably even more than experienced players) plus they can adjust the numbers next patch. I mean overbuffing and overnerfing is actually a well known technique of balancing.

Edited by Daled

I know my english is not the best, every single post will be a step closer to proper english, please bear with me until then  :)

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Actually now you sound more trollish

Yeah, I'm pretty annoyed with where the game is heading and feel no reason to conceal my disappointment. Personally, I'm still on 1.0.2 - disabled updates after a quick glance at 1.1 notes. I believe I'm entitled to some fun in a video game, and trying to break through brick walls using wet noodles doesn't sound like fun to me.

 

I'm not against nerfs in principle. There can be a rational explanation why something is indeed too powerful. But when a weapon provides 15% speed bonus and you nerf it to 5%, you make people like me a little annoyed. 5% - wow, that's noticeable. Turning every unique item into a total joke isn't a sane approach to balancing.

 

It's not even about whether the game is hard or easy. I'm not one of those who think that challenge > everything else, but I don't mind hard fights. It's more about how bleaching everything to the same shade of irrelevance destroys the reason to try new things and turns the game into boring and tedious grind.

Ok, fair enough. That explanation is not trollish at all and I can see what you mean. Not that I necessarily do agree with everything, but I can comprehend.

 

Unfortunately Josh is a friend of "put it to the extreme and let's see what people are saying - if they complain a lot, we adjust a bit until people are happy" instead of "what might me a reasonable middle ground?" - as he once explained (forgot why the first approach is supposed to yield better results). And the history of PoE patches shows that they really do it: first nerf it down and then raise it back up eventually (Flames of Devotion, Ranger's Animal Companions, Druid's Spiritshift and so on).

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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Unfortunately Josh is a friend of "put it to the extreme and let's see what people are saying - if they complain a lot, we adjust a bit until people are happy" instead of "what might me a reasonable middle ground?" - as he once explained (forgot why the first approach is supposed to yield better results). And the history of PoE patches shows that they really do it: first nerf it down and then raise it back up eventually (Flames of Devotion, Ranger's Animal Companions, Druid's Spiritshift and so on).

 

It's funny when you realize that people are never happy. No matter what he does with that first approach, there will always be an unhappy group of people.

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Btw the upgraded "monk fist for everyone" is a thing i like a lot.

 

If you take the talent, your fist base dmg become the same as the monk. The progression is a bit behind anyway.

 

At max lvl: monk get +80% dmg, monk multiclass OR non monk ( multiclass or singleclass) get +50%. Is like they are 2 power lvl behind.

 

You can stll boost the dmg increasing your power level. Every power lvl gives you +7,5% dmg, +2 accuracy, +0,5 pen, if memory serves me right ( i tested it at home and i haven't my notes with me atm)

 

And fists are actually a very good weapon: are fast but with the dmg of a slow 1h. Basically you get awesome dps at the cost of no special property. But i can guarantee to you that unarmed swashbuckler, marauder or shadow dancer are all very strong. Also single class barb or ranger.

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Btw the upgraded "monk fist for everyone" is a thing i like a lot.

 

If you take the talent, your fist base dmg become the same as the monk. The progression is a bit behind anyway.

 

At max lvl: monk get +80% dmg, monk multiclass OR non monk ( multiclass or singleclass) get +50%. Is like they are 2 power lvl behind.

 

You can stll boost the dmg increasing your power level. Every power lvl gives you +7,5% dmg, +2 accuracy, +0,5 pen, if memory serves me right ( i tested it at home and i haven't my notes with me atm)

 

And fists are actually a very good weapon: are fast but with the dmg of a slow 1h. Basically you get awesome dps at the cost of no special property. But i can guarantee to you that unarmed swashbuckler, marauder or shadow dancer are all very strong. Also single class barb or ranger.

 

So far as I know, even single class characters are spending an ability point to get a weapon that reaches +50% damage/+14 acc/+4 pen (weaker than a Legendary!) at PL 9. It's even worse for multi-class, who cap out at +35% damage/+10 acc/+3 penetration at PL 6. You can't even count on PL-boosting shenanigans like a monk can, since Monastic Unarmed Training scales at PLs divisible by 3 (unlike Transcendent Suffering, which increases at even-numbered PLs).


If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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No you are wrong. At lvl 20 pure monks get +80% dmg + related boni to acc & pen, every other multiclass or singleclass ( monk multiclass or other classes multiclass or other class singleclass) top at 50% dmg + related boni. Maybe is is somewhat related to character lvl instead of power lvl, i'm not sure.

Still less than a legendary enchantment, that's true.

But consider that you are using anyway a weapon that hit fast as a fast one hand but have the dmg of a slow one hand.

 

The intersting thing is that enanching power lvl gives you better bonuses.

 

drink a potion of ascension (+2 pwl) gives you +15% dmg, +4 acc, +1 pen. If you are multiclass and one class is rogue, you even get +5% per pwl sneak attack dmg.

 

Actually if you are a rogue even +25% to your dmg is not so strong,( since you can already stack up to +300-400% dmg boni), but for unarmed warriors, rangers, paladins, barbarians can be interesting to know

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Hello all, I have a question pertaining the patch notes. It says that all 2H melee weapons gained an additional +1 penetration to the base. Does this apply to conjured 2H melee weapons like Firebrand and Citzal's Lance? And if it does not apply, is this an oversight, or is this intended? Thanks!

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Hello all, I have a question pertaining the patch notes. It says that all 2H melee weapons gained an additional +1 penetration to the base. Does this apply to conjured 2H melee weapons like Firebrand and Citzal's Lance? And if it does not apply, is this an oversight, or is this intended? Thanks!

My guess is that it’s a bug. If there isn’t an existing thread in the bug forum, it might not hurt to start one.
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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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I started a new game, couldn't hold off any longer. Veteran already feels much better than in previous versions, I now actually have to manage my party; I even used empower more than once already! :w00t:

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I might be more tempted to try wizard specialisations now.

 

Pity that there's no romanceable Eder. I don't really like the other male options that much... Aloth is passable, I guess.

Edited by Moragauth

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I was wondering how they are doing in terms of patching this game? Are there more major updates and rebalancings coming soon, or has it achieved some level of stability?

Edited by rjshae

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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