Veteran VS PotD?

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Hey guys, 

 

So... I tried PotD. I really did. But the Engwithan Digsite just did me in. The small army of pigs and wurms (Why are they cooperating with each other? What bizarre act of nature brought this about?) before I even got to the big Drake encounter at the end that so many people have struggled with. Gorecci Street I honestly just sneaked past to make the deal with Ilari, because it was what Savia wanted anyway (Though killing the smug little Elf is satisfying in its own right). 

 

So I give up. I keep  hearing that "After you get to Neketaka," PotD becomes much easier, but there's no point if I can't even get to Neketaka. Of course, I also hear that Veteran is too easy, but there's a Drake down in the Arena pit on both difficulties, and when I did some build testing on Veteran I had to blow up a gunpowder barrel to soften up the mobs all the same. 

 

I suppose my question goes to those who have played the game on both, post 1.1; Once you reach Neketaka, hit level 10 or so, and get some good gear, how big is the gap between the two in how easy the game becomes? 

 

For example, say a fight in PotD with good gear takes a minute. Would a fight in Veteran with the same gear take 55 seconds or 45 seconds? 

 

Also, how many more enemies does PotD add to fights compared to Veteran? I definitely saw quite a few in the Sea Cave. 

[Marigoldran]

You can skip the Drake fight by sneaking around.  

 

Also: Cheese.  

 

(Use Berath's Blessing to get to lvl 4  

 

Hire 3 Chanters and a Wizard (or play one yourself).

 

Summon Skeletons with the chanters and use Chill Cloud.  

 

Win.  

 

If you have enough chanters in your party, you will always outnumber the enemy even on POTD.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Marigoldran

[Dorftek]

U don't have to fight anything at the digsite. That place is just a barrier that is set there to make ppl believe that POTD will be really hard but the truth is THAT'S as hard as its gonna get because of the lack of ACC vs their beefed stats.

 

Sneak around and just walk into the arena and forget about that silly encounter. I soloed them once just because I wanted to have done it once. But since then I always, ALWAYS sneak past them

[hilfazer]

OP is asking for comparison of Veteran and PotD.

[Marigoldran]

If you have enough chanters in your party, there isn't any difference except the fampyrs.  

 

He needs to specify: "for what party?"

Edited June 22, 2018 by Marigoldran

[AeonsLegend]

Difference between PotD and Veteran is this: on PotD there will be more enemies and all of them will be higher level and have improved stats.

 

Whether you get through the Digsite/Gorecci street on PotD depends on your class. Some classes have a harder time than others. I picked a Mindstalker and it was incredibly easy because you can charm so many of them. I had a Battlemage and the sheer stats from defenses made my pc unhittable. I also had a Barbarian with something else but he just died the whole time. It was really hard for that one. Some classes need some levels and equipment to get going. Others are just OP from the start.

 

Let's say you do gorecci street and you only have a character that can reduce his own deflection while having no CC or defenses he's going to die pretty quickly on Gorecci street vs 6-7 thugs that do 20-40 damage per hit.

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Honestly, I'd much rather avoid cheesing the game as much as possible. Making use of chokepoints and environmental hazards, sure, those are things that are in the game. But my Watcher, on very limited resources, happening to find three or four badass Chanters and a Wizard in the Kraken's Eye? The fact that you can fine-tune pretty much everything you want to fine-tune about your created companions down to their background, culture, and physical appearance is really immersion-breaking for me. I guess you could just say that the class is all that's being asked for by the character specifically and then you're just asked to imagine everything else, but still. 

 

U don't have to fight anything at the digsite. That place is just a barrier that is set there to make ppl believe that POTD will be really hard but the truth is THAT'S as hard as its gonna get because of the lack of ACC vs their beefed stats.

Sneak around and just walk into the arena and forget about that silly encounter. I soloed them once just because I wanted to have done it once. But since then I always, ALWAYS sneak past them

 

Really? So if you manage to get into the arena, everything else despawns? Okay. As long as the rest of PotD presents something resembling a fair challenge once you get decent gear, I suppose I could give it another fair shot. 

 

Now it's just a matter of figuring out how to sneak my whole party down there without fighting anything, if that's even possible. Because even the freaking boars and wurms are mauling me. Maybe if I use the ladder instead of going down the stairs...

 

As far as Gorecci Street, as I said, dealing with Ilari peacefully makes sense for my character anyway. The quest giver asks for you to negotiate with him because he's not inclined to cause trouble and she can deal with him later. And bam presto, I've made it out of the tutorial island without fighting more than I had to. 

[Kaylon]

All the fights on the first island can be done solo on potd with the right build/strategy - some builds need consumables, some don't. What class do you play?

[knownastherat]

Honestly, and in my opinion, a player who cannot find solution to the Digsite puzzle on PotD should probably play on lower difficulty despite I agree that it's not (though ought to be) representative encounter for PotD difficulty. This encounter requires from player more than just walking in and using abilities. Encounters not requiring from player to put in extra effort - be it be using terrain, destructible environment or specific consumables or synergies-  beyond using abilities in more or less random order with more or less random timing and auto-attacking are in my mind badly designed encounters.  /rant sorry about that

 

As for the difference between Veteran and PotD I would not know.  

[AeonsLegend]

Honestly, I'd much rather avoid cheesing the game as much as possible. Making use of chokepoints and environmental hazards, sure, those are things that are in the game. But my Watcher, on very limited resources, happening to find three or four badass Chanters and a Wizard in the Kraken's Eye? The fact that you can fine-tune pretty much everything you want to fine-tune about your created companions down to their background, culture, and physical appearance is really immersion-breaking for me. I guess you could just say that the class is all that's being asked for by the character specifically and then you're just asked to imagine everything else, but still. 

 

U don't have to fight anything at the digsite. That place is just a barrier that is set there to make ppl believe that POTD will be really hard but the truth is THAT'S as hard as its gonna get because of the lack of ACC vs their beefed stats.

 

Sneak around and just walk into the arena and forget about that silly encounter. I soloed them once just because I wanted to have done it once. But since then I always, ALWAYS sneak past them

 

Really? So if you manage to get into the arena, everything else despawns? Okay. As long as the rest of PotD presents something resembling a fair challenge once you get decent gear, I suppose I could give it another fair shot. 

 

Now it's just a matter of figuring out how to sneak my whole party down there without fighting anything, if that's even possible. Because even the freaking boars and wurms are mauling me. Maybe if I use the ladder instead of going down the stairs...

 

As far as Gorecci Street, as I said, dealing with Ilari peacefully makes sense for my character anyway. The quest giver asks for you to negotiate with him because he's not inclined to cause trouble and she can deal with him later. And bam presto, I've made it out of the tutorial island without fighting more than I had to.

 

They despawn when you complete the digsite Ruin interior (Arena Sub-level) and find Oderisi. Progress is automated that way. Of course it's totally dumb. I think they shouldn't despawn and they should fix this so you need to save the people in the cage no matter what you do if you want Aloth.

 

Honestly, and in my opinion, a player who cannot find solution to the Digsite puzzle on PotD should probably play on lower difficulty despite I agree that it's not (though ought to be) representative encounter for PotD difficulty. This encounter requires from player more than just walking in and using abilities. Encounters not requiring from player to put in extra effort - be it be using terrain, destructible environment or specific consumables or synergies-  beyond using abilities in more or less random order with more or less random timing and auto-attacking are in my mind badly designed encounters.  /rant sorry about that

 

As for the difference between Veteran and PotD I would not know.

Puzzle on PotD? Edited June 22, 2018 by AeonsLegend

[knownastherat]

 

Honestly, I'd much rather avoid cheesing the game as much as possible. Making use of chokepoints and environmental hazards, sure, those are things that are in the game. But my Watcher, on very limited resources, happening to find three or four badass Chanters and a Wizard in the Kraken's Eye? The fact that you can fine-tune pretty much everything you want to fine-tune about your created companions down to their background, culture, and physical appearance is really immersion-breaking for me. I guess you could just say that the class is all that's being asked for by the character specifically and then you're just asked to imagine everything else, but still. 

 

U don't have to fight anything at the digsite. That place is just a barrier that is set there to make ppl believe that POTD will be really hard but the truth is THAT'S as hard as its gonna get because of the lack of ACC vs their beefed stats.

 

Sneak around and just walk into the arena and forget about that silly encounter. I soloed them once just because I wanted to have done it once. But since then I always, ALWAYS sneak past them

 

Really? So if you manage to get into the arena, everything else despawns? Okay. As long as the rest of PotD presents something resembling a fair challenge once you get decent gear, I suppose I could give it another fair shot. 

 

Now it's just a matter of figuring out how to sneak my whole party down there without fighting anything, if that's even possible. Because even the freaking boars and wurms are mauling me. Maybe if I use the ladder instead of going down the stairs...

 

As far as Gorecci Street, as I said, dealing with Ilari peacefully makes sense for my character anyway. The quest giver asks for you to negotiate with him because he's not inclined to cause trouble and she can deal with him later. And bam presto, I've made it out of the tutorial island without fighting more than I had to.

 

They despawn when you complete the digsite Ruin interior (Arena Sub-level) and find Oderisi. Progress is automated that way. Of course it's totally dumb. I think they shouldn't despawn and they should fix this so you need to save the people in the cage no matter what you do if you want Aloth.

 

Honestly, and in my opinion, a player who cannot find solution to the Digsite puzzle on PotD should probably play on lower difficulty despite I agree that it's not (though ought to be) representative encounter for PotD difficulty. This encounter requires from player more than just walking in and using abilities. Encounters not requiring from player to put in extra effort - be it be using terrain, destructible environment or specific consumables or synergies-  beyond using abilities in more or less random order with more or less random timing and auto-attacking are in my mind badly designed encounters.  /rant sorry about that

 

As for the difference between Veteran and PotD I would not know.

Puzzle on PotD?

 

 

Yes. I still live the dream I was promised in developers commentary to the starting area of PoE .. "beloved Infinity Engine games" where Baldur's Gate 2 is possibly the most beloved one. An important part of BG2 was solving puzzles or battles. 

Edited June 22, 2018 by knownastherat

[AeonsLegend]

Yes. I still live the dream I was promised in developers commentary to the starting area of PoE .. "beloved Infinity Engine games" where Baldur's Gate 2 is possibly the most beloved one. An important part of BG2 was solving puzzles or battles.

I rather you explain directly what puzzle you're talking about instead of a vague comment and a link to a 10 page website.

[InsaneCommander]

Digsite puzzle? Do you mean figuring out how to sneak in?

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

All the fights on the first island can be done solo on potd with the right build/strategy - some builds need consumables, some don't. What class do you play?

 

Marauder (Berserker/Streetfighter) 

 

 

Honestly, and in my opinion, a player who cannot find solution to the Digsite puzzle on PotD should probably play on lower difficulty despite I agree that it's not (though ought to be) representative encounter for PotD difficulty. This encounter requires from player more than just walking in and using abilities. Encounters not requiring from player to put in extra effort - be it be using terrain, destructible environment or specific consumables or synergies-  beyond using abilities in more or less random order with more or less random timing and auto-attacking are in my mind badly designed encounters.  /rant sorry about that

 

As for the difference between Veteran and PotD I would not know.  

 

See, I'm in the middle as far as that goes. I /hate/ encounters where I'm just called upon to select my party, click on the enemy, and watch people auto-attack each other to death. I like using chokepoints, gunpowder barrels, and other things to really make each encounter feel different. That's why, even though it kicks my butt most of the time, I love the ship combat - because the enemy can easily flank you if you're not careful, and different ship types present different challenges. I want to feel compelled to use consumables to give myself an edge against powerful foes. 

 

But then I get murdered by two or three boars because I didn't make proper use of kiting and mob splitting to drag them into smaller, more manageable clumps. And, I don't know. I guess /that's/ where I draw the line. Using corridors and doorways to make it so that enemies can only attack my melee characters? That's fine. 

[Tigranes]

Well, if the question is whether POTD "requires" kiting, or mob splitting - no, it doesn't. But it might feel that way for some players, or some parties. If you find yourself consistently frustrated then just drop the difficulty and be done with it.

 

As to the question of how representative the Digsite difficulty is of the rest of the game, it's probably one of the hardest places in the entire game relative to your party's strength.

[knownastherat]

 

All the fights on the first island can be done solo on potd with the right build/strategy - some builds need consumables, some don't. What class do you play?

 

Marauder (Berserker/Streetfighter) 

 

 

Honestly, and in my opinion, a player who cannot find solution to the Digsite puzzle on PotD should probably play on lower difficulty despite I agree that it's not (though ought to be) representative encounter for PotD difficulty. This encounter requires from player more than just walking in and using abilities. Encounters not requiring from player to put in extra effort - be it be using terrain, destructible environment or specific consumables or synergies-  beyond using abilities in more or less random order with more or less random timing and auto-attacking are in my mind badly designed encounters.  /rant sorry about that

 

As for the difference between Veteran and PotD I would not know.  

 

See, I'm in the middle as far as that goes. I /hate/ encounters where I'm just called upon to select my party, click on the enemy, and watch people auto-attack each other to death. I like using chokepoints, gunpowder barrels, and other things to really make each encounter feel different. That's why, even though it kicks my butt most of the time, I love the ship combat - because the enemy can easily flank you if you're not careful, and different ship types present different challenges. I want to feel compelled to use consumables to give myself an edge against powerful foes. 

 

But then I get murdered by two or three boars because I didn't make proper use of kiting and mob splitting to drag them into smaller, more manageable clumps. And, I don't know. I guess /that's/ where I draw the line. Using corridors and doorways to make it so that enemies can only attack my melee characters? That's fine. 

 

 

Was having a similar conversation here: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/101501-beta-patch-11-important-changes/?p=2047161 

 

Also was frustrated at first when I died several times because prior to 1.1 the encounter was a walk, but once I realized I need to reevaluate my approach and looked into my backpack, it became consistently doable. 

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Was having a similar conversation here: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/101501-beta-patch-11-important-changes/?p=2047161 

 

 

 

Also was frustrated at first when I died several times because prior to 1.1 the encounter was a walk, but once I realized I need to reevaluate my approach and looked into my backpack, it became consistently doable. 

 

 

Hmm. 

 

Honestly, just for the sake of my own experience, I think I'm just going to stick with Veteran. 

 

Edit: I guess I mostly feel a little intimidated because of all of these people who obviously have a ton of experience with the Infinity Engine who are clearing all of this content, and I can't. 

Edited June 23, 2018 by Cyrus_Blackfeather

[mazeltov]

FWIW the digsite fights and the arena interior fights can be snuck past; it only takes a single character touching Odierisi (sp) to trigger the outside despawning. I also do Gorecci street with a few pieces of Fine gear and companions from Nekky. Easy breezy, wet and sleazy, as Serafen says.

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

FWIW the digsite fights and the arena interior fights can be snuck past; it only takes a single character touching Odierisi (sp) to trigger the outside despawning. I also do Gorecci street with a few pieces of Fine gear and companions from Nekky. Easy breezy, wet and sleazy, as Serafen says.

 

Hmm. You guys seem really dedicated to convincing me I can do PotD. I'm honestly kind of flattered. Still, if the only way I can progress through the main story is by cheesing the Digsite (That is, if I don't want to recruit mercenaries from the Tavern), I kind of feel like I should do it on Veteran. At least it's still an okay challenge on Veteran. 

[knownastherat]

 

Was having a similar conversation here: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/101501-beta-patch-11-important-changes/?p=2047161 

 

 

 

Also was frustrated at first when I died several times because prior to 1.1 the encounter was a walk, but once I realized I need to reevaluate my approach and looked into my backpack, it became consistently doable. 

 

 

Hmm. 

 

Honestly, just for the sake of my own experience, I think I'm just going to stick with Veteran. 

 

Edit: I guess I mostly feel a little intimidated because of all of these people who obviously have a ton of experience with the Infinity Engine who are clearing all of this content, and I can't. 

 

 

I think I can understand that, I cant beat Dark Souls, for example, Well, I think you can clear it because Deadfire is not hand-eye coordination and reflex dependent, we can think of a plan, prepare, pause and even reload. Question is if PotD gameplay is something you find enjoyable. 

Edited June 23, 2018 by knownastherat

[mazeltov]

 I kind of feel like I should do it on Veteran. At least it's still an okay challenge on Veteran. 

 

By all means. Though I don't think the various ways to use stealth in the game are cheesing necessarily. In an RPG it's nice to be able to circumnavigate certain obstacles instead of smashing into them head first.

[Kaylon]

 

All the fights on the first island can be done solo on potd with the right build/strategy - some builds need consumables, some don't. What class do you play?

 

Marauder (Berserker/Streetfighter) 

Your class will be hard to play even in normal and the only way to make it work at melee is by using potions of Final Stand (with high alchemy and intellect) or Barring Death's Door from a priest. So until you reach Neketaka where you can find the ingredients for your potion my advice is to grab a hunting bow and use Frenzy until you become bloodied.

[1TTFFSSE]

You can split pull with sparks or traps

on upper level of dig site there are choke points where only one enemy mob can attack you tank at a time

on gorecci street you should start killing the group on the right side of the map (mage is priority) from the right side behind the house - that way you have natural los and the other looter group if they come for you will have to go through the slog zone and be slow that you have time to deal with the mage and rogue in the right group. 

[grayrest]

I like to reroll so I've done the Marje quests a dozen times or so. I like the rest of the game on PotD, just not the initial few encounters.

 

I hire a hunting bow + war bow Cipher as soon as I get into Port Marje for Whispers. You can also do Druid for charm beast but I like dual Saber Swashbuckler Eder and Cipher provides Phantom Foes for him and the acc bonus from the stealth Wyrm pet. I get Xoti, do all the Port Marje quests, talk my way to the wise teeth necklace, fight the xaurip encounter, and I hit level 4 right as I get to the digsite. Cipher gets replaced by Serafen once the initial segment is over.

 

I do Gorecci by entering from the south (leave the port from the exit where you initially entered), sneak across the map for the easy conversation check, grab the necklace on the way out. I've done the fight the way others are suggesting but I don't find it enjoyable so I skip.

 

For the digsite, go north from the entrance, down the ladder, save, walk someone to the edge so they get spotted from below, and you'll aggro half the group. I skip the drake fight because I also don't enjoy doing it.

 

You might also want to try an easier build for the segment just to get a feel for doing the run. For a similar-ish playstyle, I found Devoted/Helwalker Brawler to have a very smooth initial segment. Devoted weapon choice doesn't really matter for the initial segment, I just like the extra pen on the fists. You're mostly getting Fighter for Disciplined Strikes, Confident Aim, and Penetrating Strike.

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

 

 

All the fights on the first island can be done solo on potd with the right build/strategy - some builds need consumables, some don't. What class do you play?

 

Marauder (Berserker/Streetfighter) 

Your class will be hard to play even in normal and the only way to make it work at melee is by using potions of Final Stand (with high alchemy and intellect) or Barring Death's Door from a priest. So until you reach Neketaka where you can find the ingredients for your potion my advice is to grab a hunting bow and use Frenzy until you become bloodied.

 

 

Maybe that was the problem. I kept trying for the Flanked bonus, so I kept trying to play mine as a frontline fighter. What I should have probably done is had Eder as a Swashbuckler with a sword and shield out in melee range with Guardian's Stance for maximum engagement, at least until I can get some better armor for my MC.