Should there have been a mid-game detour like the Underdark? (BG2 and POE2 spoilers)

[Mallard]

BG2 had most sidequests available near the start of the game, and I think most people felt that was to the game's benefit. Deadfire does an excellent job following in its footsteps, especially Neketaka.

 

But BG2 also wisely decided to ship the player off to Spellhold midway through the game, removing them from the open-world of sidequests. The player goes through Brynnlaw, Spellhold, probably the Sahuagin City, and finally the Underdark...

 

It ends up being an unexpectedly long detour, but I think that ends up being one of BG2's major strengths. There's something very satisfying about returning to the open-world after such an epic journey through so many exotic locations! Even better, the player gets a second chance to return and complete those sidequests that were simply too challenging before (the Twisted Rune, Kangaax, etc.)

 

I really think Deadfire would have benefited from this type of mid-game break from the open-world. Imagine if the player had been trapped by the eruption of the volcano within the rathun caverns; this would be the start of an incredible journey:

 

- a desperate escape into the bowels of the earth, where even the rathun are reluctant to delve...

 

- from there, you discover a forgotten underground Engwithan city, like Sun-in-Shadow...reveal important backstory on the Wheel...

 

- with Ngati's aid you are forced to travel *underwater*, as she creates a tunnel of air, like Moses parting the Red Sea...you see whales and giant squids and those monsters mentioned in the POE1 book studying you curiously through the wall of water...

 

- finally, you return to the surface, emerging from some abandoned ruins and causing the local villagers to initially worship you out of fear, like C3PO and the Ewoks...

 

And with that, you are finally returned to the open-world, given a second chance to complete any sidequests that had been left hanging. *Then* you can make the decision to travel to the endgame (Ukaizo).

[Armanz]

I dig the idea and I think the game could've greatly benefitted from a bit of railroading. I generally dislike the concept of open world and I love how BG2 handled that situation. Halfway through Deadfire I felt like random quests were piling up and there was too much to do and at the end of the game I just kept going for the bounties.

[Wormerine]

Fleshing out Eothas chase would be grand. Alas we will get even more sidecontent. Which is good, I liked Deadfires side content. 

[Tick]

I just want more Eothas and Iovanna and Engwithins and souls influencing the way the world works. I liked what was there, but I do miss it a little compared to how much was in poe 1. Though it'd probably be hard to completely match it.

 

But like, the mechanics of what blights and specters are and how that other watcher guy essentially had multiple personality disorder or how Aloth has a different personality /person as a survival mechanic, but it's all through the way souls work. I miss that stuff.

[Tarlonniel]

I miss that stuff too. It's what really made Eora stand out from the plethora of fantasy worlds out there.

[Mannock]

Hmm. I'm torn on this subject. On the one hand I found the whole Spellhold to Underdark sequence in BG2 to be a bit of a stranglehold on my playthroughs. I've only completed BG2 twice but I have started some 30-40 sessions through the years and most of them have always ended somewhere along the route of Spellhold to Underdark.

 

But they were cool on the part of the narrative, so despite the above I wouldn't want the game to be without them. But maybe they could have been integrated in another way, to not make them like a very long tunnel? In any case I'm not sure the tunnel design was what made the game great.

 

There should be an 'undecided' option.

[wRAR]

PS:T does this somewhat better as the detour is much shorter, but ideally there needs to be new high-level content after that, PS:T has none, BG2 has only the main quest.

[Ophiuchus]

I agree that a detour in the main quest would've been a good way to even out the pacing. One of my favorite moments in Deadfire was searching for a Principi flag in Delver's Row: leading into The Gullet, Dareo's place, and the Old City, was a good, long adventure.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Ophiuchus

[AeonsLegend]

The entire game is a detour. Main quest is about 2-3 hours tops.

[Myztik]

No, they are the worst part of RPGs

[mydnightscrivener]

Would really elevate the game. With no hub to return to, etc it would give in an entirely different feel, focus on the plot/story etc. Admittedly BG2's section may be too long (spellhold is really boring, but underdark was awesome); PS: T was pretty awesome too. Also allows the world to change/be different when you return. Emerging from underdark was such a relief, just like returning to Sigil.

[gkathellar]

Maybe, but certainly not one like BG2's Underdark. Acts 4-5 in that game weren't bad because they were linear, but because they went on forever. In my last playthrough of BG2, I was so impatient by the time I reached Ust Natha that I ran straight up to the Temple of Lolth, killed the guards, took the eggs, and then just up and left.

[Wormerine]

Maybe, but certainly not one like BG2's Underdark. Acts 4-5 in that game weren't bad because they were linear, but because they went on forever. In my last playthrough of BG2, I was so impatient by the time I reached Ust Natha that I ran straight up to the Temple of Lolth, killed the guards, took the eggs, and then just up and left.

Yeah, underdark has a lot of fetchquests and half of the content there is walking back and forth between city and underdark. Still, cool idea nad unexpected detour on the first playthrough. 

[Mannock]

Maybe, but certainly not one like BG2's Underdark. Acts 4-5 in that game weren't bad because they were linear, but because they went on forever. In my last playthrough of BG2, I was so impatient by the time I reached Ust Natha that I ran straight up to the Temple of Lolth, killed the guards, took the eggs, and then just up and left.

I agree, but still, we get to meet Svirfneblins on that long trek, so that is awesome.

[AFA]

The Underdark is the worst part of BG2, Totally ruins the pacing and offers basically nothing to the plot. It is like the Orc questline in Neverwinter Nights 2, or the Fade in Dragon Age Origins - the part you always hate replaying.

[E.RedMark]

liked and hated the underdark personally . Liked cose...so much tension! You shouldn't be there ! if they catch you..you are so dead !!!! and really..the forbidden lair of the dark elves.....make you wanna take pictures and say 'See! They exist and it was EVILLLLL!'' 

 

It was also fun , that backstabbing.....just delicious 

 

but I didn't like how...it was timed . You gotta be there in 2 days blah blah blah...

 

great atmosphere though , love it . 

 

Considering how Deadfire really lacked in Tensions...I say it need more then just the underdark . It need ALOT of the underdark . 

 

cose side what berath tell you at the beginning....after that..it a smooth sailing . Take your time ! have fun , drink some ! 

 

*shrug*....lack urgency , drama , angst...and such . 

[269811510]

Cool~

[bronzepoem]

l really love your idea.It will make POE2 great again  

Obsidian could make a DLC to add this part into th mid-game.After all only 3 DLC is not enough for a epic RPG.

Since we have a submarine, why don't we explore the mysterious world underwater?It could be a cthulhu style advanture.

[wRAR]

Since we have a submarine

We don't.

[handsomenat]

Ok I admit I dislike the idea of a detour for the its own sake but I read your ideas and kinda liked them. Especially the point of using it as an opportunity for some Wheel lore exposition. And seeing monsters.

[Suen]

The whole game is a huge detour, if you delay Ashen Maw long enough. 

[aqeelus]

I just want more Eothas and Iovanna and Engwithins and souls influencing the way the world works. I liked what was there, but I do miss it a little compared to how much was in poe 1. Though it'd probably be hard to completely match it.

 

Exactly. 

 

Gods went from these mysterious beings to a washed up rock band that keeps whining about their glorious past every three seconds.

 

What made Pillars unique was this whole philosophy based theme. Sure it was no Dostoevsky novel but it was way better than anything out there at the moment. Why did Obsidian drop the philosophy theme and go for a generic high fantasy theme? I'm guessing it's because of the vocal minority who came from let's say Skyrim, that were tired of reading descriptions no matter how well written they were. I'm basing this on the fact that a friend of mine who enjoyed POE1 but hated the lack of flashy images and cool cutscenes. That is why the gods are in your face and no longer have any mystery. I'm not hating on Skyrim, In fact I have 500 hours in that game but If I want to play a Skyrim or a Dragon Age I can just go and play those.